Why do some athiests believe that Jesus did exist? Watch

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#61
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#61
The Romans kept a lot of records, and from this is historical proof that a man named Jesus was born in Bethlehem and crucified outside Jerusalem.

Whether or not you believe he was the Son of God is up to you, but you can't say he definitely did or didn't perform miracles. So the reason some athiests accept the records of this man is because they believe he did exist but was just a man.
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shamrock92
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#62
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nixie
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#63
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#63
It is historically accepted (generally) that Jesus both existed AND did great feats that were recorded. I am not saying it is accepted by most that he did them by the power of God but even his contemporary opponents accepted these two things. Josephus writes on this. Things like healings are attributed to him and are NOT academically attributed as lies or hysteria, the usual explanation is his charisma fixed there phsycological impairments. His teaching is also attributed to have come from him. Academically there is no sound reason not to believe he existed and taught (most of) what we now see him teach in the bible and that he did many miracles. Please don't (anyone) post things like he was mentally deficient/crazy as smart people of this era are in agreement that he was not, also do not post that he was just a nice guy people liked enough to follow; he was a respected leader among many true but his teaching was controverial and caused genuine anger. He could easily have been more popular by not giving such "difficult teaching" that turned people away and enraged them to the point of killing him. His teaching was effective because it was different, true and challenging. He also taught in different ways to the rabbis of the time and lived the life he taught on. This is generally accepted among those who study Jesus.(at least according to the doctor of Theology i've listen to lecture on such things, and no i have no reason to suspect her a Christian and the course is at least not geared towards Christians) Oh it is also accepted he was killed by crucifiction, Romans do there jobs well, the argument he was still alive afterwards is laughable.
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nixie
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#64
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#64
The statement "His teaching was effective because it was different, true and challenging" is not included within the statement "This is generally accepted" - this is just my view which I should have posted after the academic view, my apologies. Also apologies for any spelling/grammar mistakes; remember, the validity of my views is not subject to the quality of my typing.
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Marco1
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#65
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#65
He was an actual living human being. There is plenty of proof about that from historical writings and events.
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manderlay in flames
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#66
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(Original post by Renal)
There's a lot of historical evidence - the bible, the apocrypha and other writings from the time. Jesus may or may not have been the 'son of god' but he almost certainly existed.
There are 4 recorded reports of a man named jesus outside of the bible, bear in mind the Jesus was a common name at the time and most of them are ambiguous and they all only mention him in passing, so not not a lot of historical evidence.
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cowsgoquack
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#67
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(Original post by Frodz)
Unless of course you are taking the bible to be a fictional story (probably not far from the truth to be fair......)
I thought that went without saying :eek:
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roots
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#68
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(Original post by Antonia87)
What are you talking about? Its widely accepted by scholars, historians and researchers the world over that Jesus existed. Whether you believe he was the son of God or not is a different matter. If you are going to deny the existence of Jesus, you'd also have to deny the existence of Pontius Pilate (who did exist) and John the Baptist (who also did exist).
Thats from another thread where i said i'd quote this everytime this topic comes up.
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TheBlindestPilot
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#69
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#69
Just the celebrity if his time.
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Frodz
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#70
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(Original post by cowsgoquack)
I thought that went without saying :eek:
Oh in that case I would wholeheartedly agree, it was just it sounded like you were saying that even if it was shown the character of Jesus wasn't anything like the bible then it wouldn't invalidate what the bible said!!
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py0alb
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#71
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It was never even proposed that he was the son of God until they took a vote on it at the council of Nicea. Most Christians don't realise that their beliefs are based entirely on the vote of a council. What if they had voted differently?
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User188463
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#72
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I believe he existed because there were hundreds of similar 'messiah'-types around at the same time. People need to understand the sociological climate when Christianity was born - there was a veritable supermarket of faiths, will hundreds of varying sects believing their own amulets and passcodes would get them through to heaven. Christianity caught on mainly because it became compulsory to do so!
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Mithra
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#73
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(Original post by py0alb)
It was never even proposed that he was the son of God until they took a vote on it at the council of Nicea. Most Christians don't realise that their beliefs are based entirely on the vote of a council. What if they had voted differently?
Council of Nicea! Thats the one! I was trying to remember the name of that earlier in the thread but failed miserably, thanks :yep:
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aKarma
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#74
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#74
Because they are atheists not achristiests? (screw spelling )
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NEVERYOUMIND
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#75
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(Original post by JMonkey)
Why do people believe Santa exists?

Sounds flippant eh but like Jesus there's the man Siant Nichlaus and Santa Claus. That's about it really.
yeh but the difference is is that ppl have died for jesus. no one has died for santa. lol.

i think the fact that people died for jesus at the time is the most convincing evidence jesus existed cos why would lay down our life for a phony?
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NEVERYOUMIND
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#76
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(Original post by T-o dore)
I believe he existed because there were hundreds of similar 'messiah'-types around at the same time. People need to understand the sociological climate when Christianity was born - there was a veritable supermarket of faiths, will hundreds of varying sects believing their own amulets and passcodes would get them through to heaven. Christianity caught on mainly because it became compulsory to do so!
what dya mean 'compulsory to do so'?

but your right about there being alot of messian-types around but the fact that only christianity became a mass religion which still exists today must mean jesus did extraordinary stuff which meant ppl belived in him. so i dont see how that point backs up the athesist arguement. if anything it weakens it.
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Llamageddon
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#77
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(Original post by daisyc)
I don't understand it, is there actual proof?
I'm sure there have been plenty of people called Jesus and proof for their lives, but why do they think this is Jesus Jesus? :eek3:
I doubt many atheists would believe that a man ~2000 years ago turned water in to wine, but to believe that the bible stories are based on the life of a real man isn't outside the realm of possibility.

As for "proof"... the term is for alcohol, photography and fundamentalists. There is no proof of jesus' existing, however there is evidence. The bible is evidence, and so even is josephus. The credibility of such sources is up for debate, but overall it's not entirely unreasonable to think jesus, in some form or other, was a real man.
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jammythedodger
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#78
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(Original post by daisyc)
I don't understand it, is there actual proof?
I'm sure there have been plenty of people called Jesus and proof for their lives, but why do they think this is Jesus Jesus? :eek3:
Well, Jesus actually did exist, it is a fact. As the old line goes, theres more evidence for the existance of Jesus than that for Julius Ceasar. Whether he did the miracles or stuff, most people dont think he did. But without a doubt Jesus did exist.
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qgujxj39
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#79
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#79
(Original post by daisyc)
I don't understand it, is there actual proof?
I'm sure there have been plenty of people called Jesus and proof for their lives, but why do they think this is Jesus Jesus? :eek3:
I believe that Jesus existed, there's overwhelming evidence, isn't there? Just like I believe in Julius Caesar, the prophet Muhammad, Plato, Cleopatra and lots of other historical figures.

What I don't believe is that he was the son of God.
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jammythedodger
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#80
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Plus, as someone said above, lots of people died for Jesus. And not long after Jesus' death.
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