Times University Guide 2010 Watch

apotoftea
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#61
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#61
(Original post by 0404343m)
IOnce again though- it just proves the pointlessness of league tables- happier students with decent grad prospects are found in some very non-traditional places. Unless you want to be an academic, happiness+decent prospects would do it for most people- so why the fuss about the rank?
Exactly! God knows to be honest. Although am getting a little confused as to why I keep being told Southampton's not good enough on the CV :confused:
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River85
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#62
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#62
I thought it was a bit strange that we weren't having any "Oh my godz, LSE 7th....."

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=927928

:sigh:
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M1R4J
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#63
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#63
(Original post by Echolife)
Thanks for the link. :five:


Keele 6th for Maths this must be flawed. :grin:
No problem Thanks for the rep... Yeah, keele :eek: this years tables have changed a lot, LSE down wow, UCL down and greenwich 29th for Maths
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0404343m
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#64
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#64
(Original post by apotoftea)
Exactly! God knows to be honest. Although am getting a little confused as to why I keep being told Southampton's not good enough on the CV :confused:
TSR, it seems, is far from a typical cross section of the public, or even a cross section of students. In here, there's a prestige thing, that no one has been able to properly define yet, that says certain universities are prestigious, and certain ones aren't. Therefore, even if Leicester and Southampton were to finish above Nottingham from now until eternity, it'd take quite some time to change people's perceptions. Whilst I don't agree with the very concept of tables- I do find it laughable that so many care only about 'university X is above Y for Politics?? This table is all wrong!'- as if the table must agree with whats in their head. Bizarre behaviour from people I'd at least assume could interpret stats and realise that 'better' is subjective- league tables merely show which universities score higher on the criteria picked. If you think that equals better, then so be it.

As for student satisfaction, I've always said its a flawed indicator- but it by no means should be kept off of the record. Students need to know it, but I'd hope they could make up their own minds. St Andrews has very happy students, Edinburgh much less so. But is there hundreds, maybe even thousands, unhappy at St Andrews and happy at Edinburgh? More than likely. The university should be the best fit for you, the statistics should be there, from research quality to dropout and satisfaction. Should they be compiled and added together for a score out of 1000 or whatever? Well, lets just say, I'm yet to be convinced of the merits.
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Forestwooders
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#65
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#65
i thought durham and lse were a lot lower than I would've thought. Though i do think the tables are a pile of crap because if you look at the economics scores LSE has a lot higher scores in every section part from the NSS than Oxbridge, but sits below them???
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apotoftea
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#66
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#66
(Original post by 0404343m)
TSR, it seems, is far from a typical cross section of the public, or even a cross section of students. In here, there's a prestige thing, that no one has been able to properly define yet, that says certain universities are prestigious, and certain ones aren't. Therefore, even if Leicester and Southampton were to finish above Nottingham from now until eternity, it'd take quite some time to change people's perceptions.
With regards to Soton, I was talking about why academics slam it :confused: (well, the ones that I've met recently do)

As for student satisfaction, I've always said its a flawed indicator- but it by no means should be kept off of the record. Students need to know it, but I'd hope they could make up their own minds. St Andrews has very happy students, Edinburgh much less so. But is there hundreds, maybe even thousands, unhappy at St Andrews and happy at Edinburgh? More than likely. The university should be the best fit for you, the statistics should be there, from research quality to dropout and satisfaction. Should they be compiled and added together for a score out of 1000 or whatever? Well, lets just say, I'm yet to be convinced of the merits.
Agree with you there. Student Satisfaction's a good one AND a bad one methinks. All it takes is for one gobby mouthed student who's had a couple of bad essays marks and been told to shut up to make their feelings known and it alters the results for the other 48 people who were perfectly happy.

It's all flawed unfortunately
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River85
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#67
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#67
(Original post by Forestwooders)
i thought durham and lse were a lot lower than I would've thought. Though i do think the tables are a pile of crap because if you look at the economics scores LSE has a lot higher scores in every section part from the NSS than Oxbridge, but sits below them???
Oxford and Cambridge both have higher entry standards and Cambridge has higher graduate prospects. Even then, Oxford's stands at 89% and LSE's is 90%. The difference across the board isn't miniscule. A large weighting is placed on student satisfaction.

As for LSE and Durham in the main table. Durham has remained static, it was actually eight last year. LSE has dropped a few (it was fourth last year) but, really the difference between five to ten places is pretty much bugger all basically.
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.ACS.
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#68
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#68
(Original post by apotoftea)
With regards to Soton, I was talking about why academics slam it :confused: (well, the ones that I've met recently do)
Do they? :eek:
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apotoftea
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#69
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#69
(Original post by .ACS.)
Do they? :eek:
I really wouldn't worry and specially not for engineering!!! Just some opinionated arse of a tutor who I had the pleasure of dealing with quite recently; I personally think Soton's a good uni and keep hearing good things about it so it's why I'm confused it does get slammed by certain people.
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achard
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#70
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#70
(Original post by apotoftea)
I really wouldn't worry and specially not for engineering!!! Just some opinionated arse of a tutor who I had the pleasure of dealing with quite recently; I personally think Soton's a good uni and keep hearing good things about it so it's why I'm confused it does get slammed by certain people.
Out of curiosity, where did these academics go to university and what subject do they teach and where? Did they mention which unis look good on the CV and which don't?
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apotoftea
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#71
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#71
(Original post by achard)
Out of curiosity, where did these academics go to university and what subject do they teach and where? Did they mention which unis look good on the CV and which don't?
Put it this way, they are of the generation that think Oxbridge and London are still the be all and end all for the only way of getting into academia and basically ram home all the prestige that you can find on TSR :rolleyes:
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andreasms
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#72
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#72
What is wrong with you people?
You've done and firmed your choices, so don't come whining about a university's drop of 5 places. That's just insane.

No university would like to see itself being less highly regarded, but on the other hand I'd like to believe that reputable universities don't even think about league tables and focus on teaching quality and research.

Nottingham was 16th last year, now it's 20th. As it is 26th in the Guardian table. Now should students joining Notts in 2009 - just as I am - whine over it? No. Of course not. It would be silly to do that. But then again I would expect otherwise from 17-year-olds.

See, the thing is.. students here want to brag about their university being in the top10, top5 etc. Everyone has different wants and different needs. Who said that everyone would be happy at Loughborough, or Exeter, or any other city/town? And the same applies for London. Not everyone has the cash to maintain the crazy and overrated London lifestyle.

It all comes down to YOU. What YOU want. I just hate people who put their 5 UCAS choices solely using league tables. What about the area? What about the cost of living? What about research/graduate prospects? There are a lot to take into consideration and believe me, university is what YOU make of it, and not some newspaper league table.

Now go revise.
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Ekpyrotic
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#73
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#73
4th for St Andrews. A marvelous way to finish off this year's rankings.
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Grapevine
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#74
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#74
For any one who's shocked about Exeter's position at 9th, do bear in mind that the table is complied by a subsidiary of Exeter uni :ninja:
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Ham and Jam
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#75
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#75
Wow the Times rankings have really lost credibility now, I mean LSE 7th!, anybody not familiar with how our tables change so much would be really perplexed to see a world famous bastain of HE outside the top 4 in our supposedly most "authoritative" ranking. Also Nottingham 20th!, wow how did it become so low all of a sudden.

Also how they have worked out research seems very odd. They havent used the basic RAE ranking, or research power, for that matter. I thought Manchester were in the top 10 for research but they put it at 15th?

Also Exeter have jumped into the top 10 as soon as they are the ones compiling the data, coincidence much?

Perhaps the Sunday Times rankings might actually give a realistic indicator later in the year
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AfghanistanBananistan
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#76
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#76
Again this ranking is a farce. LSE 7th!!! I dont think anyone on here would place it as the 7th best. This is why satisfaction is stupid. Does it really make LSE a worse university, and not the world's best social science uni because its students are not that satisfied, no.

Not many people know that Harvard is notorious for leaving students alone to do there work, with little contact time, esp compared to ivies like Brown (i read this in the princeton review guide). Also MIT has the highest suicide rate of any uni, and is notoriously tough, giving it im sure a lower satisfaction - it is this that makes it a great university.

Does this make Harvard a worse university - NO, we all know it is the best. Lest not forget that this is what rankings are supposed to do - rank which are best. Personally LSE's nature of having individual students and being research led it what stands it out and why employers love it and dislike St Andrews, simply because its students are self relient and not in a bubble.

Also, Exeter? it is funny how when they start doing the rankings they move up.

The RAE is a joke, Manchester out of the top 15 when it did so well, Edinburhg above LSE who came joint second with Oxford, as well as Oxbridge well ahead for some reason - seems iffy to me. I dont understand why the ranking is so different to the Independents when they use exactly the same criteria and data?

Nottingham 20th?, below Glasgow, Soton, Sheffield and Loboro, sort it out lads, this is there worst ever rank.
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0404343m
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#77
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#77
(Original post by Ham and Jam)
Wow the Times rankings have really lost credibility now, I mean LSE 7th!, anybody not familiar with how our tables change so much would be really perplexed to see a world famous bastain of HE outside the top 4 in our supposedly most "authoritative" ranking. Also Nottingham 20th!, wow how did it become so low all of a sudden.

Also how they have worked out research seems very odd. They havent used the basic RAE ranking, or research power, for that matter. I thought Manchester were in the top 10 for research but they put it at 15th?

Also Exeter have jumped into the top 10 as soon as they are the ones compiling the data, coincidence much?

Perhaps the Sunday Times rankings might actually give a realistic indicator later in the year


Here, try and take note of what I said in the Guardian thread.

(Original post by 0404343m)
Common sense gets you nowhere on here- this thread is a classic example. Honestly, you'd think that Greenwich really had just become a top institution at the expense of Bristol, and employers were busily changing their recruitment policies on the back of a number next to a name. The outrage when a set of criteria applied to a pile of data gives you a result you didn't expect, is really quite laughable. If anything, it proves one thing: People here are largely snobs. It doesn't matter what a university does, be it excel in keeping their students happy, producing quality research, getting them into employment, or providing them with a high standard of teaching and facilities. If they break into the holy top 20 as a result, rather than recognise their achievements, they deride the table as 'broken' instead. Lamentable
And what if the Sunday Times doesn't agree? Will you then say all tables are rubbish, because they don't agree with the 'top 10' you have in your head? Why bother reading, since any deviation, based on any set of statistics, means the table is 'wrong' in your view? Why don't you go and create your own, and stop whinging?

Its a table. I assume (perhaps wrongly) you're familiar with the concept? It ranks things based on criteria it clearly defines- it doesn't mean x is 'better' than y, it merely means x has scored more points than y on the criteria it was judged on. It's no more or less 'credible' than it was last time- if you cannot grasp this, the most basic of concepts, you should perhaps go back and take some more primary school classes again.
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narc
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#78
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#78
I never get why Kings is high in league tables for politics when it doensn't even offer a politics course..?
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River85
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#79
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#79
(Original post by 0404343m)
.
:laugh:

Mate this is what you're talking to: -



They'll never listen :sad:
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Roundabout
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#80
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#80
(Original post by AfghanistanBananistan)
Again this ranking is a farce. LSE 7th!!! I dont think anyone on here would place it as the 7th best. This is why satisfaction is stupid. Does it really make LSE a worse university, and not the world's best social science uni because its students are not that satisfied, no.

Not many people know that Harvard is notorious for leaving students alone to do there work, with little contact time, esp compared to ivies like Brown (i read this in the princeton review guide). Also MIT has the highest suicide rate of any uni, and is notoriously tough, giving it im sure a lower satisfaction - it is this that makes it a great university.

Does this make Harvard a worse university - NO, we all know it is the best. Lest not forget that this is what rankings are supposed to do - rank which are best. Personally LSE's nature of having individual students and being research led it what stands it out and why employers love it and dislike St Andrews, simply because its students are self relient and not in a bubble.

Also, Exeter? it is funny how when they start doing the rankings they move up.

The RAE is a joke, Manchester out of the top 15 when it did so well, Edinburhg above LSE who came joint second with Oxford, as well as Oxbridge well ahead for some reason - seems iffy to me. I dont understand why the ranking is so different to the Independents when they use exactly the same criteria and data?

Nottingham 20th?, below Glasgow, Soton, Sheffield and Loboro, sort it out lads, this is there worst ever rank.
:facepalm:

You really think the quality of a university is only determined by its prestige? If Harvard held no lectures at all and had no facilities nor staff, according to you it would still be a great university!
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