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    (Original post by Ministerdonut)
    But the problem is, when they delegate it is sometimes forgotten about. I think less of it is true maliciousness but just poor communication and a degree of laziness. As I said a nurses job should be 100 percent her patient. No excuses. They need to see nursing as less of a career but more of a vocation. I don't believe in health care assistants personally anyway. All patient care , especially in regards to basic personal cleaniness should be the nurses job. It's no wonder our hospitals have such a problem with infection when nurses 'delegate'

    And where was the supervision? seriously.
    I'm not sure you have a complete understanding how many nurses are usually on the wards, how many patients are on the wards and all the jobs needed to be done each shift.
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    I really could cry at the thought of this. It makes me so sad that a human being can do this. Even if the source is unreliable, this kind of thing has happened and is happening nowadays.
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    (Original post by Ministerdonut)
    But the problem is, when they delegate it is sometimes forgotten about. I think less of it is true maliciousness but just poor communication and a degree of laziness. As I said a nurses job should be 100 percent her patient. No excuses. They need to see nursing as less of a career but more of a vocation. I don't believe in health care assistants personally anyway. All patient care , especially in regards to basic personal cleaniness should be the nurses job. It's no wonder our hospitals have such a problem with infection when nurses 'delegate'

    And where was the supervision? seriously.

    There are good nurses out there, and there are good wards out there, its the miniority which let down the profession.

    Problem is there aren't *enough* nurses to do basic care and the nursing care, which is why HCA's were brought in. Nursing is 100% the patient, i'm still to work as a student nurse where my focus isn't on the holistic needs of a person in my care
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    (Original post by Trigger)
    But saying we should shoot her. I bet you are the sort of person that joins those groups on face book baying for the blood of every criminal in the UK.
    Okay so now you are judging me and assuming I spend my life tracking down criminals and making sure they get what they deserve... okay love.
    Realistically, I am a 16 year old girl that made one statement about a vile nurse.
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    (Original post by Trigger)
    I'm not sure you have a complete understanding how many nurses are usually on the wards, how many patients are on the wards and all the jobs needed to be done each shift.
    Oh I think I have some idea. You are implying there are not enough staff? but why then are their numerous eyewitness accounts both from myself and countless others, not just on this discussion but pretty much everywhere of them sitting on their arses doing chuff all?

    Ignoring patient's buzzers etc etc. The nurses impromtu christmas party where patients were forgotten about and left to lie in their own excrement, pain relief forgotten about in my local hospital made national news. As I said, if there is truly not enough staff and is not just an excuse. Then we need to find out the reason for this, sickness? poor recruitment? and measures taken. Health care assistants should be a purely voluntary occupation where they work side by side with the nurses supervision but not on their own and should not be relied upon to give patients the correct care.
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    (Original post by Cupcakee)
    Okay so now you are judging me and assuming I spend my life tracking down criminals and making sure they get what they deserve... okay love.
    Realistically, I am a 16 year old girl that made one statement about a vile nurse.
    No i'm saying two wrongs don't make a right...
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    (Original post by Ministerdonut)
    Oh I think I have some idea. You are implying there are not enough staff? but why then are their numerous eyewitness accounts both from myself and countless others, not just on this discussion but pretty much everywhere of them sitting on their arses doing chuff all?

    Ignoring patient's buzzers etc etc. The nurses impromtu christmas party where patients were forgotten about and left to lie in their own excrement, pain relief forgotten about in my local hospital made national news. As I said, if there is truly not enough staff and is not just an excuse. Then we need to find out the reason for this, sickness? poor recruitment? and measures taken. Health care assistants should be a purely voluntary occupation where they work side by side with the nurses supervision but not on their own and should not be relied upon to give patients the correct care.
    So on a ward of say 20 patients and 3 nurses those 3 nurses need to be able to do everything? You are going by anecdotal eveidence mostly. When i was working on the wards the nurses sat down to write in the care plans or to call DR's etc. One reason we don't have enough nurses is that it is a 3 year course, the support on these courses is ****, the way its set out is ****, the cash you receive to train is ****. I'm sorry you have seen what you thought was bad practise but it isn't 100% true for all nurses. There are plenty of bad Drs, HCAs, management and nursing is no different.
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    Don't they teach nurses to treat patients with respect these days?
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    (Original post by Trigger)
    So on a ward of say 20 patients and 3 nurses those 3 nurses need to be able to do everything? You are going by anecdotal eveidence mostly. When i was working on the wards the nurses sat down to write in the care plans or to call DR's etc. One reason we don't have enough nurses is that it is a 3 year course, the support on these courses is ****, the way its set out is ****, the cash you receive to train is ****. I'm sorry you have seen what you thought was bad practise but it isn't 100% true for all nurses. There are plenty of bad Drs, HCAs, management and nursing is no different.

    I disagree, i appreciate you had a bad time on your nursing course, but i'm always being supported, when i had a bullying mentor my tutor and the university were behind me, and my RCN rep was fantastic, the way im learning is brilliant..my first semester preparation was delivered well and helped me prepare what to expect, and now in the level 2 i'm building on that, and its an obvious gradual learning i'm doing which is clear and consistent and i can see my own progress (although the uni is a bit disorganised with cancelling lectures/room changes!) and to top if off..the money isn't bad at all!

    Maybe this is just a difference between UWE and nottingham?

    as for misterdonut, i urge you to come spend a day shadowing a nurse....even so without a HCA, a bay of 6 patients..to get their obs done, and drugs round done in an hour before breakfast..., that nurse would be superwoman
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    (Original post by Subcutaneous)
    I disagree, i appreciate you had a bad time on your nursing course, but i'm always being supported, when i had a bullying mentor my tutor and the university were behind me, and my RCN rep was fantastic, the way im learning is brilliant..my first semester preparation was delivered well and helped me prepare what to expect, and now in the level 2 i'm building on that, and its an obvious gradual learning i'm doing which is clear and consistent and i can see my own progress (although the uni is a bit disorganised with cancelling lectures/room changes!) and to top if off..the money isn't bad at all!

    Maybe this is just a difference between UWE and nottingham?

    as for misterdonut, i urge you to come spend a day shadowing a nurse....even so without a HCA, a bay of 6 patients..to get their obs done, and drugs round done in an hour before breakfast..., that nurse would be superwoman
    You were still bullied on the ward Anna. Thats the point. Nursing is predominately women, women in groups are nasty. I am not the only one who has been treated like crap on the wards and it nearly destroyed my mental health.
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    (Original post by Trigger)
    No i'm saying two wrongs don't make a right...
    I don't think she actually meant she should be shot. I think she was just expressing how disgusting it all is and she should face punishment
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    (Original post by Trigger)
    So on a ward of say 20 patients and 3 nurses those 3 nurses need to be able to do everything? You are going by anecdotal eveidence mostly. When i was working on the wards the nurses sat down to write in the care plans or to call DR's etc. One reason we don't have enough nurses is that it is a 3 year course, the support on these courses is ****, the way its set out is ****, the cash you receive to train is ****. I'm sorry you have seen what you thought was bad practise but it isn't 100% true for all nurses. There are plenty of bad Drs, HCAs, management and nursing is no different.
    Oh I freely admit you can't just scapegoat the people at the sharp end on all this. And why is it your job to fill in 'care plans'? that surely would be better dealt with by someone else senior to you? like a sister or matron.Which it is then your role to implement fully. Surely a nurses role should be a purely practical hands on one?When you think of a traditional image of a nurse it is mopping patients brows, applying treatment and giviing comforting words not sitting in a room away from patients performing admin tasks. . Iam not really picking nurses on that but the system.

    Iam also not surprised how badly your course in run, like many things in recent times it is run badly and half cut. Why is it a 3 yr course? did we have 3 yr courses for nurses in the past? Is another factor with the low staffing level money in your experience?

    As I said earlier , I think malicious , uncaring nurses are in a minority but I think what we are dealing with here is confusion on a nurses role, perhaps some nurses themselves feel above certain tasks because of the three yrs training they had to undertake, poor communication when delegating to HCA's (HCA's which are feel are an issue in themselves) and perhaps lack of supervision.As the saying goes when the cats away the mice will play.It's human nature and nurses are not above it just because of their occupation.

    We need to make the discipline of errant poorly performing NHS staff whether that be nurses doctors or managers more transparent and harsher,just because they work for the NHS does not mean incompetence should not be dealt with severely. And we need to make sure new nurses like yourselves are given proper guidence and supervision.

    20 patients and 3 nurses is wholly unacceptable (how many are students and not fully qualified) . HCA's or not. And is not acceptable for a health service funded by the taxpayer. I also think it is an unacceptable working environment for the staff also.
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    (Original post by Subcutaneous)
    I disagree, i appreciate you had a bad time on your nursing course, but i'm always being supported, when i had a bullying mentor my tutor and the university were behind me, and my RCN rep was fantastic, the way im learning is brilliant..my first semester preparation was delivered well and helped me prepare what to expect, and now in the level 2 i'm building on that, and its an obvious gradual learning i'm doing which is clear and consistent and i can see my own progress (although the uni is a bit disorganised with cancelling lectures/room changes!) and to top if off..the money isn't bad at all!

    Maybe this is just a difference between UWE and nottingham?

    as for misterdonut, i urge you to come spend a day shadowing a nurse....even so without a HCA, a bay of 6 patients..to get their obs done, and drugs round done in an hour before breakfast..., that nurse would be superwoman
    I'd rather not ,I'm frightened of blood

    I'm mainly having a go at the system anyways as I'm being political, but my point stands where is the supervision? I think when nurses and other staff are truly behaving like this the public being as how the NHS is tax payer funded and what many soley rely on need to see harsh punishments awarded and not think it is something else swept under the carpet. To restore confidence.

    I have seen some things with my own eyes,mainly when visiting relatives but I admit my experience is just my own.
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    (Original post by numb3rb0y)
    As sickening as this seems, can we please keep in mind what the source is?
    The telegraph wrote it?? A respectable newspaper?
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    Oh I freely admit you can't just scapegoat the people at the sharp end on all this. And why is it your job to fill in 'care plans'? that surely would be better dealt with by someone else senior to you? like a sister or matron.Which it is then your role to implement fully. Because you can only fill in care plan if you have done the caring. a care plan has charts for BP, urine output, bowel movements etc. I should have explained that really sorry. Surely a nurses role should be a purely practical hands on one?When you think of a traditional image of a nurse it is mopping patients brows, applying treatment and giviing comforting words not sitting in a room away from patients performing admin tasks. . Iam not really picking nurses on that but the system.Nurses also have to do drug rounds which can take up to an hour sometimes, they have to talk to relatives, deal with the dead, organise transport for patients, organise drugs for patients to take home and other things as well as "mopping brows" This is why HCAs are bought in to feed, bathe and toilet the patients as well as make meds and answer bells. Untill you have worked on a ward you can have no idea what happens on a normal shift. Visiting hours are the quietest times hence you may have seen nurses "sitting onthier arses. Most of them prbably didn't have a lunch break.

    Iam also not surprised how badly your course in run, like many things in recent times it is run badly and half cut. Why is it a 3 yr course? did we have 3 yr courses for nurses in the past? Is another factor with the low staffing level money in your experience?AFAIK it was mostly trained on the job. It's a 3 year uni course now with dissertations, essays, lectures, seminars and all that is coupled with placements whoch are 6 to 8 weeks in length. On placement you are expected to work full time whilst completing uni work.

    As I said earlier , I think malicious , uncaring nurses are in a minority but I think what we are dealing with here is confusion on a nurses role, perhaps some nurses themselves feel above certain tasks because of the three yrs training they had to undertake, poor communication when delegating to HCA's (HCA's which are feel are an issue in themselves) and perhaps lack of supervision.As the saying goes when the cats away the mice will play.It's human nature and nurses are not above it just because of their occupation. I have to admit i did see that sort of thinking on the wards. Nurses wern't keen on say bathing patients because the students and HCAs did that. That wasn't everyone though.

    We need to make the discipline of errant poorly performing NHS staff whether that be nurses doctors or managers more transparent and harsher,just because they work for the NHS does not mean incompetence should not be dealt with severely. And we need to make sure new nurses like yourselves are given proper guidence and supervision. People need to report these things, its a shame but you will find incompitance in any work place.

    20 patients and 3 nurses is wholly unacceptable (how many are students and not fully qualified) . HCA's or not. And is not acceptable for a health service funded by the taxpayer. I also think it is an unacceptable working environment for the staff alsoThe students are supposedly supernumerary, there to learn not just to make up numbers. It is awful but that is what they have to do day in and day out. There aren't enough people completing nursing training for whatever reason (i was bullied and so gave up) and the courses make things like childcare and living very hard for the mature students sue to small funds and having to be on placement and not having much say on which shifts you can do in some cases.
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    (Original post by Ministerdonut)
    Oh I freely admit you can't just scapegoat the people at the sharp end on all this. And why is it your job to fill in 'care plans'? that surely would be better dealt with by someone else senior to you? like a sister or matron.
    Please read what a care plan is...

    Which it is then your role to implement fully. Surely a nurses role should be a purely practical hands on one?
    It is yes, but care plans have existed for years and are simply documenting what you've done and why, very important and very legal and should be filled out by the person who has DONE them.

    When you think of a traditional image of a nurse it is mopping patients brows, applying treatment and giviing comforting words not sitting in a room away from patients performing admin tasks. . Iam not really picking nurses on that but the system.
    Care plans are not written away from the ward, infact they are sometimes written in collaboration with a patient, i've always written mine on a table with the bay i'm supervising, so if a patient needs me, they can ask. Sometimes i do them when they're eating if there are no assisted feeding patients on that bay

    Iam also not surprised how badly your course in run, like many things in recent times it is run badly and half cut. Why is it a 3 yr course? did we have 3 yr courses for nurses in the past? Is another factor with the low staffing level money in your experience?
    If you saw my post you'd see me disagreeing with the way my course is run, i find it very useful to learn it in theory first and then put what i've learnt into pratice, and alternate between this, it works for me. Nurses did originally train for 3 years before P2000. Yes the fact student nurses are now supernumeracy does make a difference, where as before student nurses whatever level were a staffed member on a ward. However due to the advancement of medicine, Nurses are needed to progress with this

    As I said earlier , I think malicious , uncaring nurses are in a minority but I think what we are dealing with here is confusion on a nurses role, perhaps some nurses themselves feel above certain tasks because of the three yrs training they had to undertake, poor communication when delegating to HCA's (HCA's which are feel are an issue in themselves) and perhaps lack of supervision.As the saying goes when the cats away the mice will play.It's human nature and nurses are not above it just because of their occupation.
    Maybe so, but as medicine has advanced, nurses simply can't sit back and be a hand to hold, when administering so many different types of drugs, we need to know WHY that medication is being given, and the side effects and about the patients condition so we can report any abnormalities. We're now producing more competant nurses, but there is a call for nurse training to get a balance between compassion and competancy, and yes this is hard, but its not a new thing and has been raging since nursing has developed, the "models of nursing" are so debateable (models explain what nursing is) and there are SO many. It is easy, and i know i feel it, to feel disillusioned into what nursing is, instead i've decided to not develop into a nursing sterotype but instead decdide how i want to be as a nurse, and develop my own skills instead of sit back and let people tell me which area of 'me' as a nurse is more important

    We need to make the discipline of errant poorly performing NHS staff whether that be nurses doctors or managers more transparent and harsher,just because they work for the NHS does not mean incompetence should not be dealt with severely. And we need to make sure new nurses like yourselves are given proper guidence and supervision.
    Its just a lack of whistleblowers, people too scared to speak up and sticking for their colleagues when really they should stick to their patients, unfortunately as a student i've had to report bad pratice and risk a bad report on my placement as because of this the staff found out and turned against me, even though it was clearly a dangerous act

    20 patients and 3 nurses is wholly unacceptable (how many are students and not fully qualified) . HCA's or not. And is not acceptable for a health service funded by the taxpayer. I also think it is an unacceptable working environment for the staff also.
    3 nurses to 20 patients is what a ward is like on a good day..this is why HCA's are needed, its better to have per HCA per nurse, it really is. Its easier as we can sit down and do the paperwork together, they may notice things during a bed bath i might now as i was busy dealing with the medication. Or a patient may communicate more to a HCA due to a different relationship



    This post is so full of fail...
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    (Original post by Terryw)
    This makes me sick and annoys me of the highest order!

    Elderly people treated badly turns my stomach and makes be see red.

    I could post a huge rant with loads of abusive words, but it won't help.

    The government need to regulate these "carers" a lot more and have a sister type matron to watch the staff and listen to patients. The government is letting the elderly down and throwing them into any old care home with understaffed, ill trained and ill educated "carers".

    I would like to have a good old talk to some of these "carers" and see if they're drama queens.
    what a load of *****

    what the zanuliarbore 'government' needs to do is get the hell out of it's interference in the management of the NHS ...taking the failed baked bean stackers that dominate lay management with them , the only lay managers in the NHS should be those recruited through a proper training programme of at least 3 years in length ( post graduate) so they have the slightest clue about why you can't force staff to treat patients like products and why when a Registered Health Professional says 'No' or 'this isn't safe' you respect that rather than bullying them to to the loony bin or a pine box ....

    and if anyone says that doesn't happen - trust me it does having seen at least one colleague driven to suicide and many more , my self included suffer with serious mental health problems

    what would i know anyway i'm just 'difficult to work with ' ( i.e. won't be pushed around ) and 'not a team player' ( stands up to Lay managers and the joke that is 'matron' and tells them to poke it if they aren't going to be useful)
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    (Original post by punktopia)
    So are you living in a magical world where newspapers don't have any political bias or agenda?
    Of course not, but the inherent bias on this forum is far greater than the bias present in most newspapers.
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    (Original post by ThisLittlePiggy)
    They should be regulated by their direct supervisors! FFS. They don't need a whole new ******* body to govern them!
    more to the point Nurse managers at ward and matron level should back RNs in instructing and disciplining them rather than backing the HCAs as the default position.
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    I've seen much, much worse in residential homes for the elderley, stuff that still guts me six years later. The blatant abuse detailed in the article is far, far more commonplace than anyone cares to think, and i believe that that is just the tip of the iceberg.
 
 
 
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