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Paramedic waits 16 minutes to enter a flat and help a 999 caller watch

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    (Original post by L i b)
    No, I don't want to do any of that.
    because even that wouldn't be enough to make me or any other member of NHS staff walk into a live tactical situation without the training, PPE and Sec.5 firearms to deal with it ....
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    (Original post by Trigger)
    You just cant turn it off can you. I would have been so happy to have learnt from you but you are unable to talk to anyone in a reasonable manner. Its people like you that made me quit the course, CONGRATS.
    what you perhaps failed to appreciate is that eyes and ears out number mouths 4 to 1 ... and consequently trainees and students should use them in that ratio ...
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    (Original post by steve2005)
    It is to do with response time. Only one paramedic arrived and because he was on his own he did not enter the flat until 22 minutes after the call. I presume the target of 8 minutes is not met by waiting outside the flat.
    if a single responder stages off due to tactical considerations the A8 is met , yet another symptom of zanuliarbores dysfunctional management of the NHS where the targets are more important than staff welfare or service delivery.
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    (Original post by AEH)
    The way the article talks about "Health and safety" like its some kind of bureaucratic indulgence as an excuse for cowards to get out of doing their jobs is a little odd. Its impossible to say what was going on with the paramedic, given as we have no idea what information he had at the time, just that he thought it was unsafe. As someone already said, adding to the casualty list does no-one, especially the original punter, any favours, which is obvious.

    What's less obvious to most of the people commenting here is that from the very start prehospital/rescue training drills into you the requirement to ensure the safety and security of the scene above all else and that forms the start of your thought process every single time you see something. Experience, especially in the London service, gives you a pretty good judgment for when things don't quite add together and makes you err on caution. Every paramedic I've met has had some pretty serious guts but they all know a story of the guy who had a patient go for him or walked into a trap or whatever. They go about the job anyway and just use those experiences to inform their judgment. Maybe this guy's judgment was wrong, there's no way for any of us to know that and that's not to say this wasn't a stupid, tragic outcome but to accuse him of laziness or cowardice or any the crap from the Daily Mail comments section is just medical armchair Patton.
    More ridiculous ******** from the Daily Fail.I really don't like how they've put a "oh look , it's the 'elf and safety brigade again" spin on the story without considering the facts.

    IMO what the FRU responder did was probably the correct course of action , as you said there the first priority needs to assess the scene to make sure it is safe before going in to a situation.I'm not fully sure what made the responder come to the decision to wait for police backup , the Fail's story is not likely to be accurate.

    The other thing is that I can easily see them writing a "45 min wait until ambulance" story if that didn't happen and if the ambulance didn't turn up quickly.Which would have more of a point about ORCON targets , but still there's not an infinite supply of ambulances and technicians there.
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    your damned if your do, and your damned if you don't

    if the paramedic, would off gone in and got hurt or killed, the same paper would be calling for laws to help health and safety, you can't win with some people

    then we would of had the whole look at broken Britain
    paramedic killed on streets of broken Britain trying to save a man, head line like that
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    (Original post by learner_dancer)
    This was on The Daily Mail site. It is therefore invalid.
    That's a bit of a silly thing to say. You may not agree with it's agenda but you can't just ignore a piece of news because of where it's from. It's the real issue that's being discussed and there's plenty of places to discuss hatred of right-wing media.
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    (Original post by robinson999)
    your damned if your do, and your damned if you don't
    No, you're not. You're damned if you don't, and you're quite properly rewarded and held in high esteem if you do.

    if the paramedic, would off gone in and got hurt or killed, the same paper would be calling for laws to help health and safety,
    It really wouldn't.

    then we would of had the whole look at broken Britain
    paramedic killed on streets of broken Britain trying to save a man, head line like that
    Well quite right too. If someone did indeed kill a paramedic, then it would be utterly revolting and quite correctly condemned in all corners of society. However that is not what happened and was never a remotely realistic possibility. Are you seriously suggesting someone not do something because of a Daily Mail headline?
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    The fact that the paramedic went in there alone in the end is bravery enough to be honest on his part, considering he thought it appropriate to call for police backup when he initially arrived at the premises.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    No, you're not. You're damned if you don't, and you're quite properly rewarded and held in high esteem if you do.



    It really wouldn't.



    Well quite right too. If someone did indeed kill a paramedic, then it would be utterly revolting and quite correctly condemned in all corners of society. However that is not what happened and was never a remotely realistic possibility. Are you seriously suggesting someone not do something because of a Daily Mail headline?
    looking over the it again, clearly a communication error gone on here, between the paramedic and operator, the 999 staff telling the man to leave his door open a bit, but the paramedic, feared the open door and another on the latch meant the flat was being burgled
    which you can understand why he wanted the police there, only rapid response, so his on his own,
    its all a bit of red type
    you have the whole duty of care of patients and staff, this is a one of, being blown way out of the water
    without knowing cause of death, who knows if it would of saved him
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    (Original post by steve2005)
    I think the paramedic should be charged for dereliction of duty.
    No such thing in the UK. They could be charged with manslaughter though. However, they would only need show they had belief that he was being burgeled and they could get away pretty much free (ie: it won't happen).

    I think it just highlights risks associated with potentially very dangerous situations.

    I think the paramedic will resign and fair enough if they do, but they shouldn't, well only if they feel they are not good at their job.
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    Typical Daily Mail snobbery from a bunch of lentil eating lefties. Of course our emergency services we cannot criticise because they 'save lives'.Well guess what sometimes whether they directly do so or not they kill people too. When you give someone that level of responsibility they should be held to an even higher standard than say someone who stacks shelves or opens post in an office.

    There was another case of the paramedic who with a very sick man in the back drove the sick man to the ambulance station rather than A and E because his shift was ending .The man died after the change over.His actions cost crucial minutes. Regarding this case, seems like some kind of communication mess up at some point . But even then you'd expect someone who becomes a paramedic to understand there is some risk goes with that job.

    There should be sackings in this case (probably won't be ) and I hope the guys family sues them for every penny they can get. I don't approve of suing normally.But sometimes that is the only way to punish people, in their pockets.
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    (Original post by zippyRN)
    what you perhaps failed to appreciate is that eyes and ears out number mouths 4 to 1 ... and consequently trainees and students should use them in that ratio ...
    What a *****.
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    (Original post by Trigger)
    What a *****.
    QE flipping D
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    (Original post by zippyRN)
    because even that wouldn't be enough to make me or any other member of NHS staff walk into a live tactical situation without the training, PPE and Sec.5 firearms to deal with it ....
    Hundreds of thousands of ordinary people a year find themselves in a "live tactical situations without training, PPE, and sec.5 firearms to deal with it", due to the simple fact that it's their house being burgled. I wouldn't expect a neighbour, in possession of the knowledge that there was a casualty inside to stand outside the ******* door for twenty minutes, and I wouldn't expect a paramedic to either. Not because they are a paramedic, but because they are a citizen.
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    (Original post by allymcb)
    I wouldn't expect a neighbour, in possession of the knowledge that there was a casualty inside to stand outside the ******* door for twenty minutes, and I wouldn't expect a paramedic to either.
    Actually most people would actually stand outside and do nothing. If I can remeber back to Psychology days a person got stabbed and was like screaming for about half an hour and about fifty people heard and yet not one actually called the police intill after the screaming had stopped. Note the person was dead.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

    Would you risk your life for somebody you don't know?
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    (Original post by Simplicity)
    Actually most people would actually stand outside and do nothing. If I can remeber back to Psychology days a person got stabbed and was like screaming for about half an hour and about fifty people heard and yet not one actually called the police intill after the screaming had stopped. Note the person was dead.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

    Would you risk your life for somebody you don't know?
    What people can be expected to do (in the moral, rather than predictive sense) and what they actually do are two different things.

    I thought the bystander effect was where everyone expected someone else in the group to do something? That makes (a little) more sense than standing outside on your own, knowing that there is noone else.
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    Shoot the paramedics managers
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    the photo of the family is epic. they just want money from newspaper *ahem daily mail* deals
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    I wouldn't risk my safety. Certainly not for the pay they recieve. He was given the wrong information.
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    I don't blame him. I would have done the same. He was doing his job, and doing what he thought was best in that situation.
 
 
 
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