The NBA 2016-17 Thread - Season begins tonight!

Announcements Posted on
How helpful is our apprenticeship zone? Have your say with our short survey 02-12-2016
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MrDystopia)
    x
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by eden3)
    x
    :lol:
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MrDystopia)
    I think you're grossly underestimating KAJ's dominance. It's pretty awful analysis for you to dismiss him on the basis he had 'Magic passing to him'. I think you take into account far too much the players surrounding a legend. I could just as easily say 'Magic had excellent players to finish off his passes'. Thus you see how pointless that statement is. The Showtime Lakers needed KAJ's prolific scoring just as much as Magic's passing.

    Besides that, aside from 1 extra Finals MVP, Kareem beats out Magic in almost everything else:

    When Kareem Abdul-Jabbar left the game in 1989 at age 42, no NBA player had ever scored more points, blocked more shots, won more Most Valuable Player Awards, played in more All-Star Games or logged more seasons. His list of personal and team accomplishments is perhaps the most awesome in league history: Rookie of the Year, member of six NBA championship teams, six-time NBA MVP, two-time NBA Finals MVP, 19-time All-Star, two-time scoring champion, and a member of the NBA 35th and 50th Anniversary All-Time Teams. He also owned eight playoff records and seven All-Star records. No player achieved as much individual and team success as did Abdul-Jabbar.

    That and Kareem was prolific at both ends, defensively and offensively. He is ranked as the NBA's third leading all-time rebounder (17,440). He is also the third all-time in registered blocks (3,189), which is even more impressive because this stat had not been recorded until the fourth year of his career (1974). After claiming his sixth and final MVP in 1980, he continued to average above 20 points in the following six seasons, including 23 points per game in his 17th season at age 38.


    15 times All NBA, 11 times All Defensive, 19 times All Star. Those aren't cherry picked from select points in his career. That is his entire career.

    I agree with you on one point. That is, had Magic played longer, no doubt he would've definitely gone on to have an even more outstanding career and yeah, probably would've ousted KAJ as number 2. But the fact is, he didn't, He did not have the continued dominance at both ends that KAJ had.

    I really can't see how you can sacrifice all of that because 'KAJ was only FMVP in 2 out of 6!!!'.
    But if you take a look at the tail of those chips they really didn't, and the fact Magic averaged 20-10 shows that too, he actually averaged MORE PPG than KAJ. FMVP is a big deal even if you'd like to dismiss it. And we'll also have to disagree on selecting prime championship runs as cherry picking or as I prefer career defining.

    I guess when it comes down to it we just have different definitions of GOAT, you look at the numbers and regular season accolades and I prefer to look at the post season performances. That wasn't my analysis that was someone else's which I simply agree with :p: , it took Magic for him to actually go and win those chips, and he was the FMVP for one of them only. I think James Worthy was the other with Magic the MVP for 3. Can we even use age as an excuse since MJ was in his mid 30s when he won his second 3 peat as the main guy? I don't think so.

    Anyway I haven't seen those or studied the performances of the 70's so I won't pretend to know the reasons he was so mediocre when it came to actually winning. Maybe he had a terrible team around him. FWIW his longevity is worth something to me but consistent dominance without winning doesn't warrant the #2 spot ever.

    MJ pretty much dominated the regular season for over a decade, and well before his first chip, but ultimately it came down to what he did in the playoffs. 6 Finals and 6 Finals MVP's are what make him the GOAT and push him beyond everyone else.

    Another interesting point to note personally I think the ONLY reason MJ's position as the GOAT is so rock solid is those 6 FMVP, if he relinquished even 2 of those to Pippen or Rodman it would be far less stable.

    KD could be on track to being the greatest scorer of all time and building a hell of a resume himself already with 5x scoring champion he isn't even top 20 in my books yet.

    (Original post by MrDystopia)
    Something we agree on! :p:

    (Original post by eden3)
    Also Kobe > Magic. -.-

    Spoiler:
    Show
    In your dreams bruh :p:
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Aristotle's' Disciple)

    In your dreams bruh :p:
    Reality m8
    Spoiler:
    Show
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:


    This guy better than Magic? What?
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Malevolent)

    This guy better than Magic? What?
    45% FG averaging 25 PPG over 20 seasons... brick layer?
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by eden3)
    45% FG averaging 25 PPG over 20 seasons... brick layer?
    I think Kobe has the record for most bricks all time in the post season... GOAT

    (Original post by Malevolent)


    This guy better than Magic? What?
    :rofl:
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by eden3)
    45% FG averaging 25 PPG over 20 seasons... brick layer?
    If i wanted my house built i know who I'm calling. Just saying
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Malevolent)
    If i wanted my house built i know who I'm calling. Just saying
    Savage, leave eden alone man you're breaking his heart!!! :rofl:
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Aristotle's' Disciple)
    I think Kobe has the record for most bricks all time in the post season... GOAT
    Also 45% for his career in the playoffs.... are you going to take into consideration the longevity of his career, or his PPG, including the years he was primarily surrounded by scrubs/no-names? The fact he shot such a % is just a testament to his greatness.

    (Original post by Malevolent)
    If i wanted my house built i know who I'm calling. Just saying
    Yeah. Ricky Rubio
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Aristotle's' Disciple)
    Savage, leave eden alone man you're breaking his heart!!! :rofl:
    Okay yeah i better be careful man. Might throw a brick through my window in a sec
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Aristotle's' Disciple)
    Savage, leave eden alone man you're breaking his heart!!! :rofl:
    I'm good dw :lol: I RESPEK Kobe's greatness that's all that matters.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Malevolent)
    Okay yeah i better be careful man. Might throw a brick through my window in a sec
    Lmaaaoooo okay that was actually funny :rofl:
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by eden3)
    Lmaaaoooo okay that was actually funny :rofl:
    Sorry man I do actually respek Kobe :lol:
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Aristotle's' Disciple)
    But if you take a look at the tail of those chips they really didn't, and the fact Magic averaged 20-10 shows that too, he actually averaged MORE PPG than KAJ. FMVP is a big deal even if you'd like to dismiss it. And we'll also have to disagree on selecting prime championship runs as cherry picking or as I prefer career defining.

    I guess when it comes down to it we just have different definitions of GOAT, you look at the numbers and regular season accolades and I prefer to look at the post season performances. That wasn't my analysis that was someone else's which I simply agree with :p: , it took Magic for him to actually go and win those chips, and he was the FMVP for one of them only. I think James Worthy was the other with Magic the MVP for 3. Can we even use age as an excuse since MJ was in his mid 30s when he won his second 3 peat as the main guy? I don't think so.

    Anyway I haven't seen those or studied the performances of the 70's so I won't pretend to know the reasons he was so mediocre when it came to actually winning. Maybe he had a terrible team around him. FWIW his longevity is worth something to me but consistent dominance without winning doesn't warrant the #2 spot ever.

    MJ pretty much dominated the regular season for over a decade, and well before his first chip, but ultimately it came down to what he did in the playoffs. 6 Finals and 6 Finals MVP's are what make him the GOAT and push him beyond everyone else.

    Another interesting point to note personally I think the ONLY reason MJ's position as the GOAT is so rock solid is those 6 FMVP, if he relinquished even 2 of those to Pippen or Rodman it would be far less stable.
    Many people probably averaged more, playing a short career can easily skew that. PPG for Magic would've had to have gone on for another decade to see if he had sustained dominance such as Kareem at 38 years old.

    I think it's more a case of you ONLY look at post season and place FAR too much importance on rings and FMVPs. Your other image of Hakeem too focused on playoffs, a lot like this one for Magic. I think you fail to see that careers are just that, careers. Not simply post season performances. I also find your analysis quite negative. WHY did Kareem only achieve FMVP twice in comparison to Magic's three? What went wrong? Was he carried? etc etc.

    And therein lies the irony of it all. You admit you've never looked into it, yet are happy to throw around phrases such as 'why he was mediocre when it came to winning'. It's VERY common knowledge his Bucks side were definitely not on his level, hence KAJ winning just once with them but 5 with the Lakers. A good analogy? Think early Lebron with the Cavs before his Miami Heat move. I mean, Lebron only won when he had Wade, or Kyrie later on right? Same thought process you've applied there?

    For example, let us take 1980. FMVP was Magic. Thus by your logic, Kareem was mediocre when it came to winning right? Carried by Magic? Nope, he averaged 11.9 more points than Magic, 2.4 more rebounds, and 4.3 more blocks. Magic on the other hand averaged 5.5 more assists and 2.1 more steals. Kareem's number that series were INSANE. Why did he not win the FMVP? Simply cause he was injured for Game 6. His absence meant Magic had to do everything (Which he did) and thus he was given the FMVP. Had Kareem not been injured, Magic wouldn't have had to shoulder it all. It's common consensus that KAJ would've won the FMVP over him for his incredible series. If you tell me this was mediocre as he didn't win FMVP: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...vs-lakers.html then I don't really know how to explain that there is more to it than FMVPs and rings.

    You can analyse the others, and no doubt there will be ones where he wasn't the star, yet Magic was. But to assume that because 3 > 2 KAJ was awful in the others is lazy.

    And yup, it goes back to the same thing again. KAJ needed star support despite dominating. Lebron needed star support despite dominating. Jordan needed star support. It is, after all, a team game.

    (Original post by Aristotle's' Disciple)
    Something we agree on! :p:
    Yup, KAJ > Magic but at least we can agree Magic > Kobe

    For what it's worth, I do have Magic top 10. Might draw up my top 10 players later. In fact, I'll make that the next discussion.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    Following on from this mammoth discussion, let's expand this beyond me and Aristotle's' Disciple Common question everyone asks any other basketball fan, so here it is:

    Who is your all time top 10 and why?

    Have fun
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MrDystopia)
    Following on from this mammoth discussion, let's expand this beyond me and Aristotle's' Disciple Common question everyone asks any other basketball fan, so here it is:

    Who is your all time top 10 and why?

    Have fun
    Wait was there a previous question?!? :zomg:
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by malevolent)
    wait was there a previous question?!? :zomg:
    Favourite dunks!?
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MrDystopia)
    Favourite dunks!?
    awww no **** I missed that :sad:
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    1. MJ
    2. Kareem
    3. Shaq
    4. LeBron
    5. Kobe
    6. Magic
    7. Duncan
    8. Bird
    9. Hakeem
    10. Bill Russell
 
 
 
Write a reply… Reply
Submit reply

Register

Thanks for posting! You just need to create an account in order to submit the post
  1. this can't be left blank
    that username has been taken, please choose another Forgotten your password?
  2. this can't be left blank
    this email is already registered. Forgotten your password?
  3. this can't be left blank

    6 characters or longer with both numbers and letters is safer

  4. this can't be left empty
    your full birthday is required
  1. Oops, you need to agree to our Ts&Cs to register
  2. Slide to join now Processing…

Updated: December 6, 2016
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Today on TSR
Poll
Would you rather have...?
Useful resources

Quick link:

Unanswered sport threads

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups
Study resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Quick reply
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.