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    (Original post by ThisLittlePiggy)
    It's a pretty big step up. Why not increase it to 10 % or 20 %? A move to allow trusts to hit a maximum of almost half seems dodge viper if you catch my drift.
    But surely the step up will only apply to elective treatments/procedures? It is probably already occurring at quite a few trusts nationwide and would have not caused much of an issue.
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    (Original post by carcinoma)
    In terms if which examinations? Except for our professionalism module the rest of our exams are pass/fail but we are given a mark as well.
    All of them.

    (Original post by carcinoma)
    I have begun to notice this as well.

    The entire point of PBL would be to share your knowledge within the group, teach your peers to enhance your collective knowledge. Why some people who have clearly done the learning and been to all the same sessions we have been to are reluctant to speak up even though we all know the stuff.
    Some people are just too shy to speak up (which is an issue in itself, really), others are perfectly comfortable with it but elect not to in order to avoid other people having access to what they've done.
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    (Original post by Kinkerz)
    All of them.


    Some people are just too shy to speak up (which is an issue in itself, really), others are perfectly comfortable with it but elect not to in order to avoid other people having access to what they've done.
    I was reffering to those who are not too shy, but choose not to to retain their perceived advantage for assessments.

    We get a graph for each of our Knowledge tests like this:
    Spoiler:
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    Which ranks you against your cohort and previous tests.
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    (Original post by carcinoma)
    I was reffering to those who are not too shy, but choose not to to retain their perceived advantage for assessments.

    We get a graph for each of our Knowledge tests like this:
    Spoiler:
    Show



    Which ranks you against your cohort and previous tests.
    I quite like that. We get a similar sort of thing for our OSSEs/OSCEs and it's generally been received well.
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    (Original post by Kinkerz)
    Or a way to potentially save it.

    I'm divided on the issue, but this is more complicated than you're making it out to be.
    Save what? Making such a huge leap with private income for 'NHS' hospitals really changes what the 'NHS' is, to the point where you're saving a title, not an organisation.


    (Original post by RollerBall)
    Yeah, I agree with Kinkers.

    My gut instinct tells me that 49% is too high. 2% is a joke though. I'm more against the 2% than I am the 49%. Given the option of only those two I'd lean towards the 49%.

    I think somewhere the middle would gain the best of both worlds though.

    The waiting times for those with large financial deficits are already going to be **** anyway.

    I also don't quite understand the quote from Dr Peter Carter, "This will undoubtedly lead to a situation whereby those who can afford to pay will get faster access to better treatment, with increased waiting times and a decrease in quality for NHS patients." Well no **** Sherlock. That's how it works anyway.

    Private is only available for certain treatments anyway, it's not like you're going to get a kidney/treatment for an MI quicker if you're willing to pay for it, legally anyway.
    To a weak extent I agree with you, but I think 49% is way too high.

    "The waiting times for those with large financial deficits are already going to be **** anyway."
    Why? They shouldn't be. This move will likely make them worse than they already are.

    "Well no **** Sherlock. That's how it works anyway."
    Shouldn't be. And certainly is not what the NHS was founded upon:
    '...to ensure that in future every man and woman and child can rely on getting all the advice and treatment and care which they may need in matters of personal health; that what they get shall be the best medical and other facilities available; that their getting these shall not depend on whether they can pay for them, or any other factor irrelevant to the real need
    -1944 NHS White Paper'

    "Private is only available for certain treatments anyway, it's not like you're going to get a kidney/treatment for an MI quicker if you're willing to pay for it, legally anyway"
    There is still a huge issue with private practices taking all the easy and uncomplicated operatons and lumping the NHS with the difficult and expensive ones (i.e. a much worse situation).
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    (Original post by Woody.)
    Save what? Making such a huge leap with private income for 'NHS' hospitals really changes what the 'NHS' is, to the point where you're saving a title, not an organisation.
    The NHS cannot feasibly continue as it is. The oldies are getting older; the fatties are getting fatter; the drunkies are getting drunker. The general burden on the NHS is growing.

    No, it just changes the configuration somewhat. Patients will still be treated free of charge at the point of need: the principle of the NHS.
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    (Original post by Kinkerz)
    I quite like that. We get a similar sort of thing for our OSSEs/OSCEs and it's generally been received well.
    See I wished our ISCE/OSCE feedback was given like that, we only get satisfactory/or excellent for those 2 sd's above the pass/fail mark, but we get no information about how the cohort did as a whole ect.
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    (Original post by Kinkerz)
    The NHS cannot feasibly continue as it is. The oldies are getting older; the fatties are getting fatter; the drunkies are getting drunker. The general burden on the NHS is growing.
    Reorganisation of the NHS does not necessarily require increased privatisation. I don't think you or I are qualified to say how well the NHS can or cannot continue. Certainly the opposition, reliably or otherwise, rebuke many of the coalition's decisions to increase privatisation in the NHS.

    No, it just changes the configuration somewhat. Patients will still be treated free of charge at the point of need: the principle of the NHS.
    Saying that line does not make things all fine and dandy. I wish Lansley and Cameron would decease using it. Just because you can get some care free at the point of use still does not mean we magically 'keep' our NHS or what is so good about it. Yes you can still get care free at the point of use but with the measures the government is taking it is not the same as what people associate the NHS care with - it is a lower standard and quality than what the NHS was founded upon - which the best medical care available, regardless of income.
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    (Original post by Woody.)
    Reorganisation of the NHS does not necessarily require increased privatisation. I don't think you or I are qualified to say how well the NHS can or cannot continue. Certainly the opposition, reliably or otherwise, rebuke many of the coalition's decisions to increase privatisation in the NHS.
    No, it doesn't necessarily require privatisation. I'm not even saying I'm for this policy, I just don't think it's as simple as you indicate. I understand that it may go against your politics (the over-use of emotive language in your post suggested as much), so you'll naturally be against it.

    Saying that line does not make things all fine and dandy. I wish Lansley and Cameron would decease using it. Just because you can get some care free at the point of use still does not mean we magically 'keep' our NHS or what is so good about it. Yes you can still get care free at the point of use but with the measures the government is taking it is not the same as what people associate the NHS care with - it is a lower standard and quality than what the NHS was founded upon - which the best medical care available, regardless of income.
    No, but the world cannot conform to every ideological concept to make everything 'fine and dandy'. I'm not clued up enough to know, ultimately, whether this change is a good thing or not (and I suspect most people are in this category), but sustaining things as are they is going to be one hell of a struggle, irrespective of how much you want to ignore the issues.
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    Ugh, this kinda talk is far too heavy for the holidays. Gaming anyone?
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    (Original post by Kinkerz)
    No, but the world cannot conform to every ideological concept to make everything 'fine and dandy'. I'm not clued up enough to know, ultimately, whether this change is a good thing or not (and I suspect most people are in this category), but sustaining things as are they is going to be one hell of a struggle, irrespective of how much you want to ignore the issues.
    I agree that the world cannot conform to 'every ideological concept', it's unreasonable to think so, however it is clear that the NHS can be one of those things - indeed, it has been for the past sixty years. I am aware the NHS needs to make savings as every public, and private, sector industry has to in the present climate. I am just strongly opposed to it happening in this manner whereby quality of care is decreased for the layman. In my view, that should be the absolute last thing that goes.

    (Original post by Mushi_master)
    Ugh, this kinda talk is far too heavy for the holidays. Gaming anyone?
    I got Skyward Sword for Christmas - it's awesome
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    (Original post by Woody.)
    I got Skyward Sword for Christmas - it's awesome
    Unbelievably jell. I hear it's ridiculously good.
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    Does anyone understand embryology please? I'm having trouble with the axes - is dorsal ventral the same as anterior posterior? Conveniently it appears explanations alternate at whim between the too, unless I'm (probably) mistaken...
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    (Original post by buzzcat)
    Does anyone understand embryology please? I'm having trouble with the axes - is dorsal ventral the same as anterior posterior? Conveniently it appears explanations alternate at whim between the too, unless I'm (probably) mistaken...
    My understanding was the dorsal-ventral axis was the same as the posterior-anterior axis.


    For the majority of the body ventral (embryologically) corresponds to anterior (in the anatomical position) and dorsal to posterior. With the exception of the limbs as they rotate during development, such that the ventral parts become posterior.
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    Yeah I remember it because fish have a dorsal fin along their back and ventral fins at the front :p:
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    (Original post by Kinkerz)
    Yeah I remember it because fish have a dorsal fin along their back and ventral fins at the front :p:
    Same.

    I imagine a shark and then the human blob
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    (Original post by carcinoma)
    My understanding was the dorsal-ventral axis was the same as the posterior-anterior axis.


    For the majority of the body ventral (embryologically) corresponds to anterior (in the anatomical position) and dorsal to posterior. With the exception of the limbs as they rotate during development, such that the ventral parts become posterior.
    Thanks big c.
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    (Original post by carcinoma)
    What do you guys record in your logbooks?
    Random assortment of what we've been doing, we've a list of histories/exams/procedures we need to do and get 'signed off'/show proof of, some reflective stuff. However we've then got an electronic one to do that I've not even looked at yet

    (Original post by Kinkerz)
    Whilst we're on the topic of exams, what do people think of not disclosing marks and scores and simply having a pass or fail system? Obviously marks and the like are collected for foundation post ranking purposes and analysing the examination system etc., but they are not published for students. The students are just told if they passed or failed (or any borderline-type marks that some schools give out).

    I feel like it might reduce some of the petty competition that seems rife amongst medical students and facilitate students learning from each other.
    I think you should have the merit and distinction and possibly if you were very close to the border line of any of those, but I don't see why we need the marks seeming as we aren't marked on a cumulative basis e.g. like my last degree in which it was useful to figure out how well I needed to do in my exams to get a 2:1. I've not had problems with competition, but I think that'll be because of the route I took.

    (Original post by xXxBaby-BooxXx)
    No that's not it :nah:

    There is a specific term for it that only means that one specific thing. And it's not angiogenesis - the arteries are already there, they just open up more to accommodate more blood to become the major artery in the limb.

    See our "logbook" is a written up patient history/examination findings for proforma A, and then the proforma B is the background of the disease (aetiology, presentation, investigations management etc) and we have minimum of 11 to do each module :sadnod:
    shunting?

    We don't have to do anything like proforma B...
    (Original post by ThisLittlePiggy)
    It's a pretty big step up. Why not increase it to 10 % or 20 %? A move to allow trusts to hit a maximum of almost half seems dodge viper if you catch my drift.
    :yes:


    (Original post by carcinoma)
    We get a graph for each of our Knowledge tests like this:
    Spoiler:
    Show

    What happened between 12 & 13. I think I could make one of those for myself if I CBA as we get the boundaries and the marks of everyone else.

    (Original post by buzzcat)
    Does anyone understand embryology please? I'm having trouble with the axes - is dorsal ventral the same as anterior posterior? Conveniently it appears explanations alternate at whim between the too, unless I'm (probably) mistaken...
    :yes: I was of the opinion that there was another set of words for axis when talking about embryology. Sadly my notes are 300miles away at present so i can't look it up for you.
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    (Original post by Lantana)
    Random assortment of what we've been doing, we've a list of histories/exams/procedures we need to do and get 'signed off'/show proof of, some reflective stuff. However we've then got an electronic one to do that I've not even looked at yet
    In Yr 3 we need to be seeing/clerking/taking a full history and examining at least 4 patients a week in detail and overviewing the cases of at least two. We need to get these "signed off" and fill out that whole log and a ream of reflective stuff.


    (Original post by Lantana)
    What happened between 12 & 13. I think I could make one of those for myself if I CBA as we get the boundaries and the marks of everyone else.

    That graph is not for mine looks far more bumpy, plus iv only done 5 progress tests so far (6th one is in two weeks)
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    (Original post by carcinoma)
    In Yr 3 we need to be seeing/clerking/taking a full history and examining at least 4 patients a week in detail and overviewing the cases of at least two. We need to get these "signed off" and fill out that whole log and a ream of reflective stuff.
    That would make me do more clerking and less ward jobs which would probably be a good thing.
 
 
 
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