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    (Original post by Deshi)
    It's laughable because midfielders do have to defend. There is no argument there.

    My point about creativity was that it was more Cleverley's job to take risks and not Gerrard's, so any lack of creativity you talk about is more indicative of Cleverly's performance then it is Gerrard's.

    The post you responded to was me comparing players, so when you respond with an opinion of your own surely you expect me to respond? If not why did you even quote me. :facepalm2:
    No the whole team has to defend although maybe I didn't make myself clearer the point I was trying to make about defending. Everyone in the team has to defend theres no question about that but the defenders in todays game were poor to their standards.

    And I'd agree with you on that that Cleverly doesn't have the creative edge like some other players do but I think more than Cleverly I think Hodgson is at fault there. He shouldn't be playing him in that position in the first place. Other than that Gerrard and Wilshere have seen better games.

    And the last point you made their mate I think you need to get to bed since you're just contradicting what you asked me.
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    (Original post by poiuytrewq54321)
    You're just another ignorant and delusional Liverpool fan who hasn't taken in half the things I've said. I've told you what I meant when I said 'forward' and even gave you an example with Carrick (who in fact is way better than Gerrard) and if he played today we wouldn't be having this argument. But clearly you just want to listen to yourself.

    And at no point did I say that Cleverly played more forward passes than Gerrard or vice vera in fact. What I said was that Gerrard didn't play many long passes and when he did it didn't work out. Theres a clear difference between performing well and looking at the stats. So instead of making others say they don't understand something you need to look at yourself!
    You're debating skills are poor. Look through your posts. You keep saying Gerrard didn't do enough in midfield, yet you can't qualify that at all and seem to be only judging his performance as if he was playing Cleverley's role. Different positions mean different responsibilities.

    What I mean is needs to pass the ball forward than he did in this game. I think Carrick is a good example holds the ball in the midfield which Gerrard did nicely but what Carrick does is (and Gerrard when his in good touch) is he's meant to pick out a player in front of him instead of just passing it sidewards or pass back. Most of his passes forward were misplaced and I don't remember any long passes that actually worked out for him except for the Rooney off side goal (I've seen him do it for Liverpool so often he didn't do it today or didn't do it effectively).
    A previous post. According to you Gerrard was just passing it backwards and sideways and most of his forward passes were misplaced, which is bull****. You're only argument for Cleverley being better is because Gerrard misplaced 2/3 long balls :lol:
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    Is there a law that every single England squad has to include at least 6 Manchester United players even if they're currently doing really badly, are horifically off form, haven't done anything in 2 years, or really aren't that good?

    Young - He did nothing all last season and that was after playing EVERY game at the Euros despite being horribly off form!
    Welbeck - Scored 1 goal all last year and has been in every squad since the Euros and earlier? What?
    Cleverley - Really not that good, despite other players being in good form, he's still always an ever present.
    Smalling - Doesn't even really play for his club.
    Jones - Overrated for England, hasn't even found a position at club level yet, how's he ever meant to solidify a place for England?

    Not just United players though, was always the same with Oxlade-Chamberlain. Awful season last year, in every single England squad bar this one because he's injured. Throughout the last year there have been players on form that have just been looked over in favour of the same players ALL the time.

    Can't believe people actually complained about Henderson, Downing, Carroll, Kelly, Gerrard and Johnson going to the Euros at least those who played played well.
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    (Original post by Jim-Jam)
    Is there a law that every single England squad has to include at least 6 Manchester United players even if they're currently doing really badly, are horifically off form, haven't done anything in 2 years, or really aren't that good?

    Young - He did nothing all last season and that was after playing EVERY game at the Euros despite being horribly off form!
    Welbeck - Scored 1 goal all last year and has been in every squad since the Euros and earlier? What?
    Cleverley - Really not that good, despite other players being in good form, he's still always an ever present.
    Smalling - Doesn't even really play for his club.
    Jones - Overrated for England, hasn't even found a position at club level yet, how's he ever meant to solidify a place for England?

    Not just United players though, was always the same with Oxlade-Chamberlain. Awful season last year, in every single England squad bar this one because he's injured. Throughout the last year there have been players on form that have just been looked over in favour of the same players ALL the time.

    Can't believe people actually complained about Henderson, Downing, Carroll, Kelly, Gerrard and Johnson going to the Euros at least those who played played well.
    Same could be said for Sterling as what you said with Smalling :holmes: Wish you could at least criticise a Liverpool player's selection sometimes.
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    (Original post by Jim-Jam)
    Is there a law that every single England squad has to include at least 6 Manchester United players even if they're currently doing really badly, are horifically off form, haven't done anything in 2 years, or really aren't that good?

    Young - He did nothing all last season and that was after playing EVERY game at the Euros despite being horribly off form!
    Welbeck - Scored 1 goal all last year and has been in every squad since the Euros and earlier? What?
    Cleverley - Really not that good, despite other players being in good form, he's still always an ever present.
    Smalling - Doesn't even really play for his club.
    Jones - Overrated for England, hasn't even found a position at club level yet, how's he ever meant to solidify a place for England?

    Not just United players though, was always the same with Oxlade-Chamberlain. Awful season last year, in every single England squad bar this one because he's injured. Throughout the last year there have been players on form that have just been looked over in favour of the same players ALL the time.

    Can't believe people actually complained about Henderson, Downing, Carroll, Kelly, Gerrard and Johnson going to the Euros at least those who played played well.
    Downing didn't get a goal or an assist in the league don't talk about young being off form. :rofl:
    Lets not remind me of carroll, he's ****ing ****.
    Anyway the only person in the liverpool team that should be starting is sturridge, Gerrard is good but tbh I think he's replaceable, plus the midfield's immobile as **** anyway so we need to be getting rid of the lamps/gerrards in the next 2 years anyway.
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    (Original post by doggyfizzel)
    Perhaps I'm being harsh but it would seem his days of diving and playing injured are catching up with him. I also think the time when he was a world class centre back are well behind him, he has decline a lot. He adds a lot in terms of leadership and organisation, and he still a set piece beast at either end, but the ball on the deck stuff has never been his game and I just don't think he's good enough anymore, the weakness is too obvious for teams not to exploit and against slick team its going to cost. Rio is good had a little revival but he's said he can't do both United and England, similarly a shadow of his former self, goes to show how we wasted the years when we had two of the best centre backs in the world 2005-2008ish. Smalling and Cahill is for me, a good future partnership rather than perhaps the best now and as has been said in this thread, you need to think about more than just the next game. I think would allow us to play from the back a bit more, press a bit higher with their pace, good ages too. As I said, when all is said and done, I'd still take Terry because he still too good in those moments when he is on, too much of leader to leave out, but its more lack of a replacement than anything else.
    .
    i know u wrote this a while ago but I was just looking through this thread and want to reply.

    Smalling and Cahill sounds like a decent pairing but I would glady want Terry to come back to be the main guy because he still has the quality and I still think he's a great defender. But why do u say that the ball on the deck has never been his game? When u say this do u mean his distribution? I disagree. He is probably Chelsea's best player when playing the ball out of defense, his range of passing was always great and he could comfortably make 30 yard passes. But he suffered from injury badly I think which limited his appearances. I think he's been great for them this year though in their opening games. Would u still say that his days of a class defender are behind him?

    The accuracy of both his feet has been great. I would even say he's better on the ball than rio but is just slower so people think he isn't as good
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    (Original post by Dogwithwings)
    i know u wrote this a while ago but I was just looking through this thread and want to reply.

    Smalling and Cahill sounds like a decent pairing but I would glady want Terry to come back to be the main guy because he still has the quality and I still think he's a great defender. But why do u say that the ball on the deck has never been his game? When u say this do u mean his distribution? I disagree. He is probably Chelsea's best player when playing the ball out of defense, his range of passing was always great and he could comfortably make 30 yard passes. But he suffered from injury badly I think which limited his appearances. I think he's been great for them this year though in their opening games. Would u still say that his days of a class defender are behind him?

    The accuracy of both his feet has been great. I would even say he's better on the ball than rio but is just slower so people think he isn't as good
    He's a good passer of the ball tbf, only problem is that england have to play a deeper line with him in the side, which you won't with cahill etc so you'd end up inviting pressure towards your own goal, saying that england should be playing counterattacking football than this hyperdefensive two banks of 4 **** against any team near their level and passing aimlessly from side to side when you're 1-0 down against scotland.

    Terrys still class, top 5 CB's in this league on his day. But I'd love to just see him and rio back, shame it'll never happen. I'd personally use terry and cahill for the WC then replace them with smalling/jones/etc
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    Yes we have a much better chance of getting to the final in rio if we had them.

    I think terry is your best passer. Probably better than mata
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    (Original post by Dogwithwings)
    Yes we have a much better chance of getting to the final in rio if we had them.

    I think terry is your best passer. Probably better than mata
    Depends on how you define a pass, would you say that gerrard is a better passer than xavi as he's better at long balls? Mata is a player who does eye of the needle intricate short passing although terry has better long range passing which would probably suit england more than chelsea atm. No doubt terry would help england in the WC though regardless.

    Both different ways of passing but can be just as effective. But terry's ability on the ball is underrated. Seeing as luiz does more ambitious passes and fails more than terry does.
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    (Original post by jam277)
    Downing didn't get a goal or an assist in the league don't talk about young being off form. :rofl:
    Lets not remind me of carroll, he's ****ing ****.
    Anyway the only person in the liverpool team that should be starting is sturridge, Gerrard is good but tbh I think he's replaceable, plus the midfield's immobile as **** anyway so we need to be getting rid of the lamps/gerrards in the next 2 years anyway.
    Downing got 5 goals and 9 assists last season which wasn't great but was still better than Oxlade Chamberlain and Young, who got no goals all year.

    I'd agree with Sterling, I really would, but seeing as how he played really well Tuesday night and had been scoring and playing well in pre season it's different.
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    (Original post by Jim-Jam)
    Downing got 5 goals and 9 assists last season which wasn't great but was still better than Oxlade Chamberlain and Young, who got no goals all year.

    I'd agree with Sterling, I really would, but seeing as how he played really well Tuesday night and had been scoring and playing well in pre season it's different.
    That's last season and this season, I'm talking 11/12, right now he could play but at his age and the fact he's no longer at liverpool I don't think he should be playing.

    Sterling like zaha need to be playing regular football for their clubs to get put in the team.
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    According to Greg Dyke there are too many foreigners in the league to give the national team the best chance of success.

    Link to the full speech:

    http://www.thefa.com/News/thefa/2013...ch-vision.aspx

    Summary on the BBC website:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23963416

    I notice the lack of acknowledgement from previous regimes of the FA in noting what they should have done better themselves. St George's Park came, what, 10-15 years after France and Italy have their training complexes built? No mention of how few UEFA trained English coaches there are? With FFP kicking in, and English players being overpriced, I can see clubs buying fewer of them.
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    I don't buy into the 'too many foreigners' crap. If the youngsters are good enough for England they'll break through. Look at all the average English players who have got through.

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    (Original post by little_wizard123)
    I don't buy into the 'too many foreigners' crap. If the youngsters are good enough for England they'll break through. Look at all the average English players who have got through.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Yeah this pretty much cleverley made it at united and walcott/chamberlain/wilshere have been steadily integrating at arsenal so I don't think there's a problem there.

    If the players were good enough they'd play. I guess spains and germany's financial situations have aided them in investing in top talent but tbh I think that our managers have been shocking, I still retain the notion that we had a team strong enough to win the 2002 and 2006 world cup, 2010 at a stretch.
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    if English players are good they get a chance, the problem is the media/fans thinking that any player that has a good game is going to be the English Messi who will lead us to glory, they aren't because we don't have any players who can carry a team as generally average as a lot of the England squad tend to be.
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    Watched Greg Dyke's speech earlier regarding how he did not envision the PL being full of so many foreign managers and players when it was created. Apparently bringing in foreign players has somehow had a negative impact on our national team and is preventing homegrown talent. Like others have said above, any talented English players will flourish and get noticed.
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    A lot of it must come to the number of people who could represent England that actually play football and try to make a career of it. I can't imagine it's that high relative to other nations.
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    Most of our squad comes from the top teams, so virtually every player in the squad has the chance to play in Europe. Without these foreigners, our clubs would achieve nothing in Europe and wouldn't get the opportunity to play in it (clearly we wouldn't have 4 CL spots without foreigners). Also, can you imagine how much worse (if it's possible) our players would be technically if there were no foreign coaches and players in our league!?

    It all points to terrible lower level coaching. The FA should concentrate on this rather than blaming the PL for buying better, more technically gifted players from elsewhere.

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    Nobody gives a **** about the England national team anymore.

    Patriotism is dying. The world is becoming more globalised and more and more young people are less interested in the concept nationalism.

    All a good thing if you ask me. The England national team should just retire and let club football take over.
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    (Original post by little_wizard123)
    Most of our squad comes from the top teams, so virtually every player in the squad has the chance to play in Europe. Without these foreigners, our clubs would achieve nothing in Europe and wouldn't get the opportunity to play in it (clearly we wouldn't have 4 CL spots without foreigners). Also, can you imagine how much worse (if it's possible) our players would be technically if there were no foreign coaches and players in our league!?

    It all points to terrible lower level coaching. The FA should concentrate on this rather than blaming the PL for buying better, more technically gifted players from elsewhere.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Could not agree more. England were underachievers long before the influx of foreign players to the Premier League.

    You get the odd English player who has the technical ability of Spaniards or Germans, but they tend to be the best of their generation, for example, Scholes.

    If Iniesta had been born in England, I wouldn't be surprised if we had never heard of him. Many clubs would have deemed him too small, which is an absurd way in which to judge a football player.
 
 
 
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