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    Sounds like he's making excuses there. It's like "ok we've not won anything for 5-6 years BUT compared to the teams around us..." He needs to take the blame and responsibility for things sometimes.

    He's made mistakes in his management during this period. As has every other manager in the league....

    Arsene apparently has had money to spend in the last 5-6 years but because of his footballing/financial philosophy, he's been unwilling and arguably too stubborn to spend money? Even when there's been a need to do so to strengthen his team and his team's chances of landing some silverware??!

    It's whether you're happy with the style of football you play and your seemingly sound business model or whether you're prepared to risk the latter and perhaps the former in landing some silverware to satisfy the fans cravings and as a consequence, shutting up the critics and the media etc...

    The way Arsenal run things is respectable, deserving of more respect than say what Man City are doing, splashing cash here, there and everywhere to win/buy success - a process that arguably devalues the winning of things, making the pursuit and achievement of success arguably souless in this respect.

    Depends what the individual values in the sport tbh, values differing from one individual to the next.

    You do well in most competitions, sometimes very well and you play very attractive football, sometimes very naive football. Things could be a hell of a lot worse tbh. You could support Liverpool. Imagine having to watch that boring dross week-in, week-out? Doesn't bear thinking about.
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    (Original post by Hantheman)
    I hace to say after reading Wenger's press conference, my faith is growing a little bit. Especially when he came up with this gem



    We're looking at you Lord and Saviour of the Universe Harry Redknapp.

    I miss Henry
    Spurs do deserve some credit to be honest they were bottom after 10 games of the 08/09 season and they look to improve season on season with new signings.Arsenal have no ambition of improving and have persisted with players who are not good enough.
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    (Original post by T.Adams VI)
    I really think Weneger needs to go, but that's a good point he made, something I am constantly going on about. It's not always about winning. Unfortunately most football fans are not intelligent enough to understand this.

    Look at Birmingham now, can you seriously say they have acheived more than us? (I will be expecting some people to say yes btw, which will further reinforce my point about football fans being unintelligent)

    However in our case 6 years is approaching our limit. Now it's got to the point that winning is imperative.
    You have contradicted yourself there you say it's not all about winning but it is now imperative to win.............
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    Additionally it's very competitive at the top. It's not like the SPL or La Liga where only 2-3 teams compete for the league title.

    We now have, or will, have, 3-4 teams that are genuinely competing for the league title, with only one team able to win the thing. Top teams will be going away empty handed in seasons because of the strength to this competition and when there's increasing financial muscle, especially of Man City now, things are going to get tougher...

    can you compete with that amount of cash and what it can bring?
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    (Original post by T.Adams VI)
    I really think Weneger needs to go, but that's a good point he made, something I am constantly going on about. It's not always about winning. Unfortunately most football fans are not intelligent enough to understand this.

    Look at Birmingham now, can you seriously say they have acheived more than us? (I will be expecting some people to say yes btw, which will further reinforce my point about football fans being unintelligent)

    However in our case 6 years is approaching our limit. Now it's got to the point that winning is imperative.
    From an outside perspective, I'd say its more important now than ever to keep Wenger.

    Chelsea and Man City can and will throw money, they can make massive losses and not care, they can and will find a way around the financial fair play rules. They will always buy winners from other teams and established stars and keep in the top4 for years to come (even if they have the odd blip, they will buy their way back in).

    Man Utd will continue their dominance at the top or near to it, they have such an established system in place which has worked for so long, even if another manager comes in, they can reap the benefits of the stability for years to come. They have a number of young quality players and proved they can go buy more when they need to. A club of their stature will always bring in a top quality manager (for example rumours of Mourinho)

    So already 3 of the top4 are likely to go to these guys every year.

    Spurs do not have the year on year consistency yet but they did very well last season and more importantly they have a core number of young quality players. They have a feel good factor around the club and could either keep pushing up or fall back, but it's a risk that Arsenal need to be wary of.

    Liverpool have been at their lowest but the new owners will bring stability, they've said all the right things, taken the correct and considered decisions and their success at the Red Sox means they may slowly improve.

    This isn't me saying Arsenal will fall back, just that 6 teams will now be competitive over the next few years for 4 spots.

    Arsenal have improved their financial position significantly in recent years with the property development and the new stadium, but what next? Can Arsenal really increase their revenue by another 30-50% in the forseeable future? Probably not.

    As soon as you fall into the trap of paying inflated sums and inflated wages, it screws up the structure and suddenly all your players want higher wages.

    I only bring up this example because I believe that is what has happened at Liverpool. We gave Gerrard a massive pay rise to keep him away from Chelsea, and in turn players like Reina, Kuyt, wanted (and rightly so) higher wages. The worst example is given Carragher stupid wages when he's at the twilight of his career.

    Will it be easy to reverse our inflated wage budget? No, it's going to be a painful and slow process.

    Admittedly I think Wenger has made a few mistakes recently and the extra risk in buying a quality player here or there could make a massive difference, but likewise it could be a massive failure? Bear in mind that most of the current players have been moulded in a certain way and also a certain mentality, you have to wonder how much could be upset by bringing in a few players.

    I suppose its more a case of, if you do get rid of Wenger, who do you bring in? Will young, promising players stop signing for Arsenal since they know they wont get as much of a chance to succeed as before? What happens if the new manager drops out of the top4 for a season? Do you then sack him? Stick or twist?

    I think Wenger should go for a new number 2, a new assistant manager who has a different approach to him, someone to question and someone to be aggressive in mentality with a desire to win. Perhaps that could provide the right balance to make Arsenal winners?

    It's a shame though, I think a small taste of winning would do significant things for the team.
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    Isn't there the Ajax/Amsterdam tournament/title in pre-season?

    Great opportunity to land some silverware to occupy that empty trophy cabinet?
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    (Original post by white_haired_wizard)
    Sounds like he's making excuses there. It's like "ok we've not won anything for 5-6 years BUT compared to the teams around us..." He needs to take the blame and responsibility for things sometimes.

    He's made mistakes in his management during this period. As has every other manager in the league....

    Arsene apparently has had money to spend in the last 5-6 years but because of his footballing/financial philosophy, he's been unwilling and arguably too stubborn to spend money? Even when there's been a need to do so to strengthen his team and his team's chances of landing some silverware??!

    It's whether you're happy with the style of football you play and your seemingly sound business model or whether you're prepared to risk the latter and perhaps the former in landing some silverware to satisfy the fans cravings and as a consequence, shutting up the critics and the media etc...

    The way Arsenal run things is respectable, deserving of more respect than say what Man City are doing, splashing cash here, there and everywhere to win/buy success - a process that arguably devalues the winning of things, making the pursuit and achievement of success arguably souless in this respect.

    Depends what the individual values in the sport tbh, values differing from one individual to the next.

    You do well in most competitions, sometimes very well and you play very attractive football, sometimes very naive football. Things could be a hell of a lot worse tbh. You could support Liverpool. Imagine having to watch that boring dross week-in, week-out? Doesn't bear thinking about.
    Agreed on most points.

    Wenger can't use other teams failures to justify ours. We should be looking upwards, not downwards.

    He constantly talks about the fact he wants our team to play football the proper way. But he seems to have confused attacking naive football with proper football. After watching players like Squilaci/Almunia/Bendtner/Denilson/Diaby play, I confidently say they are not playing football the proper way. What annoys me even more is when he says, "we like to let teams play their football". Why on earth would you want teams to do that? When teams like Barcelona play keep ball, that's their way of stopping the other team from getting on the ball. Wenger on the other hand allows the other team to run riot. It's very naive and worrying. This is the reason I don't think Wenger will ever win the CL.
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    (Original post by MoMatrix)
    You have contradicted yourself there you say it's not all about winning but it is now imperative to win.............
    Are you that daft?
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    (Original post by T.Adams VI)
    Are you that daft?
    You say now that we need to get rid of Wenger. I can name about six of the current team that are not at the level required you say the team has no money to spend on players yet you miraculously expect to win a trophy saying winning is imperative you need to wake up I can confidently say that next season we will be fighting for 4th spot with Spurs and Liverpool.
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    (Original post by Zerforax)
    From an outside perspective, I'd say its more important now than ever to keep Wenger.

    Chelsea and Man City can and will throw money, they can make massive losses and not care, they can and will find a way around the financial fair play rules. They will always buy winners from other teams and established stars and keep in the top4 for years to come (even if they have the odd blip, they will buy their way back in).

    Man Utd will continue their dominance at the top or near to it, they have such an established system in place which has worked for so long, even if another manager comes in, they can reap the benefits of the stability for years to come. They have a number of young quality players and proved they can go buy more when they need to. A club of their stature will always bring in a top quality manager (for example rumours of Mourinho)

    So already 3 of the top4 are likely to go to these guys every year.

    Spurs do not have the year on year consistency yet but they did very well last season and more importantly they have a core number of young quality players. They have a feel good factor around the club and could either keep pushing up or fall back, but it's a risk that Arsenal need to be wary of.

    Liverpool have been at their lowest but the new owners will bring stability, they've said all the right things, taken the correct and considered decisions and their success at the Red Sox means they may slowly improve.

    This isn't me saying Arsenal will fall back, just that 6 teams will now be competitive over the next few years for 4 spots.

    Arsenal have improved their financial position significantly in recent years with the property development and the new stadium, but what next? Can Arsenal really increase their revenue by another 30-50% in the forseeable future? Probably not.

    As soon as you fall into the trap of paying inflated sums and inflated wages, it screws up the structure and suddenly all your players want higher wages.

    I only bring up this example because I believe that is what has happened at Liverpool. We gave Gerrard a massive pay rise to keep him away from Chelsea, and in turn players like Reina, Kuyt, wanted (and rightly so) higher wages. The worst example is given Carragher stupid wages when he's at the twilight of his career.

    Will it be easy to reverse our inflated wage budget? No, it's going to be a painful and slow process.

    Admittedly I think Wenger has made a few mistakes recently and the extra risk in buying a quality player here or there could make a massive difference, but likewise it could be a massive failure? Bear in mind that most of the current players have been moulded in a certain way and also a certain mentality, you have to wonder how much could be upset by bringing in a few players.

    I suppose its more a case of, if you do get rid of Wenger, who do you bring in? Will young, promising players stop signing for Arsenal since they know they wont get as much of a chance to succeed as before? What happens if the new manager drops out of the top4 for a season? Do you then sack him? Stick or twist?

    I think Wenger should go for a new number 2, a new assistant manager who has a different approach to him, someone to question and someone to be aggressive in mentality with a desire to win. Perhaps that could provide the right balance to make Arsenal winners?

    It's a shame though, I think a small taste of winning would do significant things for the team.
    Fair points.

    However I really couldn't care less if there were 8 teams challenging for the top 4, we're simply too strong a side not to finish in the top 4. While Wengers style may not be suitable for winning the league, for the top 4 it's quite effective, since we usually have about 15 home bankers every season. (and we usually bank most of them)

    With players like Sagna/Fabregas/Wilshere/Walcott/Nasri/RvP we're just too strong to finish outside the top 4. However it is not impossible, just very unlikely.

    Also Spurs will have to sell a few players this summer when they fail to qualify for the CL. Liverpool are no way ready to challenge for the top 4.
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    (Original post by T.Adams VI)
    Fair points.

    However I really couldn't care less if there were 8 teams challenging for the top 4, we're simply too strong a side not to finish in the top 4. While Wengers style may not be suitable for winning the league, for the top 4 it's quite effective, since we usually have about 15 home bankers every season. (and we usually bank most of them)

    With players like Sagna/Fabregas/Wilshere/Walcott/Nasri/RvP we're just too strong to finish outside the top 4. However it is not impossible, just very unlikely.

    Also Spurs will have to sell a few players this summer when they fail to qualify for the CL. Liverpool are no way ready to challenge for the top 4.
    I was also hearing Arsenal were too strong a side not to beat Birmingham. If Arsenal finishing in the top 4 is dependent on how Spurs and Liverpool do next season then we are in for very worrying times. How many of those players will consider their options if Arsenal continue to fail?
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    This is no wind up, I have a lot of respect for Arsenal and Wenger and you can check my previous posts to realise that.

    That said, what on Earth is Wenger on about now? Apparently this season has been a success for Arsenal?

    Wenger is one of the greatest managers around and the only thing that stops him being the best bar none is he refusal to spend that little bit more money to increase the quality of his squad depth.

    Were I an Arsenal fan I'd have a love hate relationship with Wenger, the way he does things and the things he says.

    The problem I believe Arsenal have is that they'll never have a better manager but they could have a more successful one.
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      I honestly believe that it's in the best interests of both Arsenal and football that Wenger stays on. I do understand the agitations a number of fans have, but I believe that Wenger is the best manager we could have at the moment because of how much he cares about the club, and his ability to lay the foundations for the long term. The youth-priority policy was initiated only a couple of years ago, and I believe what Wenger is doing with the way the club is run is essential for this policy to be pulled off in the future. Also a factor is the fact that most of our key players clearly love him - RVP and Fabregas being the obvious examples - and removing Wenger could possibly lead to a significant level of disgruntlement.

      On the subject of this season, I personally don't feel it's been a disaster at all. We haven't done brilliantly, and we were close to being able to do so, but we haven't done terribly either.
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      Peter Hill-Wood :facepalm2:
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      Arsene's speaking a little too soon.

      There's a strong chance Chelsea and Man City could surpass you.

      Chelsea seem to have gotten better and Man City don't have any European games.
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      (Original post by Akkuz)
      Man City don't have any European games.
      Do we have any?
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      (Original post by jit987)
      Do we have any?
      Nope, but Man City look in decent form, especially after the 5-0 thrashing of Sunderland.

      Arsenal have drawn their last 3 premier league games.

      And Chelsea seem to be grinding out results now.
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      (Original post by Akkuz)
      Nope, but Man City look in decent form, especially after the 5-0 thrashing of Sunderland.

      Arsenal have drawn their last 3 premier league games.

      And Chelsea seem to be grinding out results now.
      Grinding out results...like the draw away at Stoke (when they were fortunate to have even got a point) and the defeat by United in the CL on Wednesday? Chelsea have slipped up very recently, not to the same degree as Arsenal obviously...

      I believe Arsenal will finish second. Chelsea look very confused with regard to how to use/accommodate Torres, who up until now has been a complete misfit.
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      Blackpool could be a potential Banana skin for Arsenal. You like your possession, they like kick and rush countering, if you dominate the game you had better score and stay awake in defence or you could end up leaving with only a point.

      As for the league, I think United should have it now, Arsenal should come in second, Chelski third, and Man City/Tottenham 4th, pretty much as it stands really. I think Tottenham going out of CL could help them, and Man City need a result tomorrow or they could be in trouble.
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      Better win tomorrow.
     
     
     
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