Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Birdman1234567)
    It's funny how over a period of 2 years Arteta went from being one of the first names on the team sheet, with a 0% win rate without him. To straight deadwood, I don't think he can be too disgruntled that he's being sidelined tho, he's had a good run tbf. Such an upgrade on his Everton career, he's gotten to play for his 2nd dream club after Barca, win the a FA cup and play Champions league football consistently. He's no Andre Santos, he will be remembered
    Arteta isn't deadwood. Ability wise he may not be a regular for first team football but he can still do a job in midfield but more importantly his experience and the leadership he displays in the squad is invaluable. He has an excellent understanding of the game Youth player need people like Arteta for guidance
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    Still waiting for the rb signing #bringbackeboue


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by little_tom)
    Southampton value Schneiderlin the same way they value Lallana, Shaw, Lovren, etc. He will go for £25M-£30M and Southampton can play hard ball since he has 3 years left on his contract. It would not be a cheap purchase by any means.
    £18m is the price I've seen reported, which is good value given that he's only 24.
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by AR_95)
    We're not buying Khedira for the sake of a pure CDM we're buying him as an upgrade on Arteta which isn't such a bad thing.

    Sure he's a bit expensive but we've been moaning for years about how we weren't splashing out the money on players so now that we finally people lose their minds. Not the best player but he's been solid for Real madrid and you have to take into account his injury this season. Still, I'm sure he'll be one of the first to be injured next season too
    Khedira is a weird player, he's probably better than Arteta but won't suit the tactics Wenger requires from his DMs. Although I guess telling Khedira to pass the ball backwards and sideways as much as possible won't be too hard to do.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    Maybe we are all seeing it wrong and Wenger doesn't want a pure CDM? Because tbh we never really played with one who just sits and doesn't get involved in attacks. Even of recent Song didn't do that and maybe it's because Wenger never wanted him to do that, rather than the 'lack of discipline' people say it was?

    Just a different point of view I thought I'd bring up


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    There's no way wenger wants all the players pushing forward kamikaze style with the full backs going forward as well as the "dm" leaving only merts and kosch behind. That would be suicidal in the big games if he doesn't tell the full backs to stay reserved.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    What ever happened to the Debuchy deal...
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by AR_95)
    What ever happened to the Debuchy deal...
    Bro it's all about eboue #eboueforpresident


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    Schneiderlin kinda reminds me of Koscielny.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Numan786)
    There's no way wenger wants all the players pushing forward kamikaze style with the full backs going forward as well as the "dm" leaving only merts and kosch behind. That would be suicidal in the big games if he doesn't tell the full backs to stay reserved.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Obviously not, but maybe he wants his two in the pivot role to be more all rounded. For example before Ramsey's injury last season he made the greatest defensive contributions from midfield as well as scoring loads of goals. Interceptions, successful tackles etc


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by AR_95)
    What ever happened to the Debuchy deal...
    Newcastle waiting to sign Janmaat first apparently.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by pane123)
    I know a lot of people don't rate him, but Joe Allen would have been a great DM signing, too. I don't think Arsenal are looking for a box to box guy like Vieira was, so the DM role is going to be an unsung hero and they are available for much less than is being touted for Khedira.
    The same Joe Allen who plays for a team who finished two places above Arsenal and is not a DM?

    (Original post by AR_95)
    I think most people criticising Khedira have only seen him for 1 or 2 matches he managed to be fit for in the CL this year
    Lol, I've seen him for a number of years. Tenacious player, unimpressive on the ball, can see his standard dropping as he takes a step down from Madrid just as Ozil's did. Not the best at positioning himself defensively either. He's just another Ramires type, although maybe with a better brain and slightly more consistent on the ball - guess I don't watch him week in week out. His best position is as a box to box midfielder in a system where there's no attacking output required from him. Could Wenger mould him into a proper DM? Not if you take Arteta as a case study.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Terry McDermott)
    The same Joe Allen who plays for a team who finished two places above Arsenal and is not a DM?



    Lol, I've seen him for a number of years. Tenacious player, unimpressive on the ball, can see his standard dropping as he takes a step down from Madrid just as Ozil's did. Not the best at positioning himself defensively either. He's just another Ramires type, although maybe with a better brain and slightly more consistent on the ball - guess I don't watch him week in week out. His best position is as a box to box midfielder in a system where there's no attacking output required from him. Could Wenger mould him into a proper DM? Not if you take Arteta as a case study.

    We don't need him to be a pure DM for us. Think the reason he bombs forward so much is because he can without much responsibility. At madrid he has Alonso and for Germany there's Scweinsteiger who is much more defensively minded. I've mentioned before he's not the best of players nor a world beater but he's definitely a massive upgrade on Arteta right now. Lack of a pure CDM won't hurt as much as long as we don't run suicide tactics like last season,
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    Khedira is essentially a slower and stronger version of Ramires.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by IWantSomeMushu)
    Schneiderlin kinda reminds me of Koscielny.
    Would prefer him to Khedira. Just need a guy to sit slightly in front of the defence and play the simple ball forward. Nothing too fancy. Just a guy that will win us the ball back quickly when we lose it.

    I would even prefer a fit and healthy Darren Fletcher for the role. More than adequate for the purpose of the position.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    I still think Arteta is underrated by alot on here! (and the Arsenal forum I was on earlier) The guy is amazing! Surely he's got 2 more years left in him? ;/
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by AR_95)
    We don't need him to be a pure DM for us. Think the reason he bombs forward so much is because he can without much responsibility. At madrid he has Alonso and for Germany there's Scweinsteiger who is much more defensively minded. I've mentioned before he's not the best of players nor a world beater but he's definitely a massive upgrade on Arteta right now. Lack of a pure CDM won't hurt as much as long as we don't run suicide tactics like last season,
    Well, not really imo.

    Last year in the big games you played a very high line. This was to negate the fact that you didn't have a pure DM (or because Wenger is a retard, which is more likely). When you play a high line there's less space on the pitch and essentially all of your standard midfielders become the DM at different points. This is because they're working in a compressed space, and so they're not too far away from tracking the run/doubling up with the fullback whenever it's required, ie doing the normal DMs jobs.

    Whereas when you're playing a deeper system, there's a lot more space in front of the defence for the opposition to play in. Different midfielders are then assigned different roles and have to stick to them, because they're further apart. This means a specialist DM is needed.

    Look at Mascherano, as conventional a DM as they come, playing for Argentina in the WC, and then Busquets/Schweinsteiger, much more unconventional ones playing for Pep's Barca/Bayern.

    ^that's how it was explained to me anyway.

    The issue with your suicide tactics was that a) your fullbacks, especially your left back, were awful at coming back on the counter, or at choosing when to go forward, b) Mertesacker just does not fit into a high line, c) Arteta didn't do anything at all - didn't push up properly because he can't, and staying deep does **** all really in a high line because it makes it easier to beat the press and d) the ball was given away in compromising positions far too easily. Opinions?
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Terry McDermott)
    Well, not really imo.

    Last year in the big games you played a very high line. This was to negate the fact that you didn't have a pure DM. When you play a high line there's less space on the pitch and essentially all of your standard midfielders become the DM at different points. This is because they're working in a compressed space, and so they're not too far away from tracking the run/doubling up with the fullback whenever it's required, ie doing the normal DMs jobs.

    Whereas when you're playing a deeper system, there's a lot more space in front of the defence for the opposition to play in. Different midfielders are then assigned different roles and have to stick to them, because they're further apart. This means a specialist DM is needed.

    Look at Mascherano, as conventional a DM as they come, playing for Argentina in the WC, and then Busquets/Schweinsteiger, much more unconventional ones playing for Pep's Barca/Bayern.

    ^that's how it was explained to me anyway.

    The issue with your suicide tactics was that a) your fullbacks, especially your left back, were awful at coming back on the counter, or at choosing when to go forward, b) Mertesacker just does not fit into a high line, c) Arteta didn't do anything at all - didn't push up properly because he can't, and staying deep does **** all really in a high line because it makes it easier to beat the press and d) the ball was given away in compromising positions far too easily. Opinions?
    Not really how it was at all. The reason we played a high line was because we needed to be winning the ball higher up the pitch as all our players with pace were injured.
    We offered no counter attacking threat and so had no choice but to press up the pitch where we continuously got caught out on the counter. Had we had a fit Walcott and Sanchez last season we could have sat deeper and countered ourselves. Full backs didn't help us last season on the counter, but it certainly wasn't the lack of a DM that led to those mullerings.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    Remember back in 10-11 I think it was when our midfield trio was Song-Wilshere-Fabregas? We were destroying teams until Fabregas got injured. That was when we started experimenting with Wilshere sitting deeper, and it was working really well. Wilshere and Song were essentially box-to-box and Fabregas was dictating the game. I wish we had that now, maybe with someone a bit more disciplined than Song.

    It's a shame players like Vieira don't grow on trees. Would love to have him again.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Pete_91)
    Not really how it was at all. The reason we played a high line was because we needed to be winning the ball higher up the pitch as all our players with pace were injured.
    We offered no counter attacking threat and so had no choice but to press up the pitch where we continuously got caught out on the counter. Had we had a fit Walcott and Sanchez last season we could have sat deeper and countered ourselves. Full backs didn't help us last season on the counter, but it certainly wasn't the lack of a DM that led to those mullerings.
    Ox has pace. Plus there are ways around not having pace and yet not playing a high line. It's Wenger's fault essentially (I edited to say this).

    It wasn't outright a lack of a DM, it was mostly complacent dispossessions, lazy fullbacks and a high line.
 
 
 
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

This forum is supported by:
Updated: September 22, 2014
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    What newspaper do you read/prefer?
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.