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    (Original post by LibertyMan)
    You don't sound very promising if you already somehow assume I'm a white supremacist, when I have never stated anything of the sort! This just goes to show how fuzzy your view of the world is. You're on some witch hunt for Nazis and White supremacists and assume everyone is one.
    I admit I may have been presumptive in using the phrase white supremacist, but my underlying point stands that I can already tell from your posts that our views on race are just so vastly different that there is no point of us even getting into a prolonged debate on it. Neither of us is going to persuade the other round to their way of thinking.

    I see no problem with it. I never said I am against it, or personal freedoms at that- but if personal freedoms compromise a country / community of people I am. If there was significant racial mixing, en masse, forced on people, that would be a problem.

    But you're missing the underlying issue that racemixing on large scale never happens because people tend to associate with their own race / culture / ethnicity. And this is precisely the reason multicultural countries have problems - you are grouping together people with inherent biases towards each other. While I don't suggest segregation, it is clear to anyone with a right mind that significantly changing Europe's cultural demographics and destroying it's original culture in the process won't go down well.

    ---

    Are you even replying to the right person? What? Maybe you came up with that out of thin air because you have a race fetish for this girl you say you love so much?

    ---

    The issue here is WHITE, EUROPEAN FERTILITY, and how it is being neglected (or surrendered) and the future Europe it will lead to. And not even financial / practical implications, but the implications of White ethnicity breeding itself out and becoming a minority!

    There is nothing you can do to restore the middle class. Don't blame "neoliberals" or economics. White people have become incapable of forming families because they are hedonists and post-modernists, they choose to not reproduce because of their "careers" or "global overpopulation" or wanting to "have fun". This has happened several times in great empires when they are about to collapse, and this trend has never been reversed. That is the scale of the problem that this TSR 'government' is faced with, and which it has no slight hint of an idea on handling!
    Ya see, the problem with most of this (and especially in relation to your other posts) is that it is so incoherent and contradictory that I don't even know where to start. Maybe I'll give it a go tomorrow when I'm more awake if I can be bothered. However basically you're telling me what isn't going to solve this perceived problem of yours, but not what is going to solve it. Banning or restricting immigration won't improve White European fertility because white people will still, in your words, be incapable of forming families. Reforming the economy so people can have both a career and enough time/money for a larger family isn't possible in your opinion. Given your lack of other solutions and your general attitude around race, I don't think it was completely unfair for me to assume you were against the mixing of races as a way of improving white fertility. So please do propose a solution and then I may start to understand where you are coming from.

    For what it's worth, it seems to me in this globally connected and rapidly changing world that, on the most part, the cultural differences are just as wide between different generations than they are between different races or religions.

    As for the comment about race fetish, it is so childish that I'm not even going to dignify it with a response.
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    (Original post by LibertyMan)
    You don't sound very promising if you already somehow assume I'm a white supremacist...

    ...The issue here is WHITE, EUROPEAN FERTILITY, and how it is being neglected (or surrendered) and the future Europe it will lead to. And not even financial / practical implications, but the implications of White ethnicity breeding itself out and becoming a minority!
    :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by cBay)
    basically you're telling me what isn't going to solve this perceived problem of yours, but not what is going to solve it. Banning or restricting immigration won't improve White European fertility because white people will still, in your words, be incapable of forming families. Reforming the economy so people can have both a career and enough time/money for a larger family isn't possible in your opinion. Given your lack of other solutions and your general attitude around race, I don't think it was completely unfair for me to assume you were against the mixing of races as a way of improving white fertility. So please do propose a solution and then I may start to understand where you are coming from.
    I didn't mean to say that we shouldn't try to reform the economy to give favorable conditions for families, only that I'm pessimistic about it working, but it's probably the easiest option we have to improve the fertility. The reason being that no society has ever recovered from this stage, and that is even without contraception and abortion.

    The real underlying problem is a post-modernist mentality of our society, and that is the real driving force in everything that is happening. But there is no way to change this.


    For what it's worth, it seems to me in this globally connected and rapidly changing world that, on the most part, the cultural differences are just as wide between different generations than they are between different races or religions.
    I'll be more convinced of that if the entire world "converts" to post-modernism, but the Islamic world and China, as an example of many, is only getting stronger and religious and traditional, even despite a communist past.
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    :rolleyes:
    Protecting your nation from extinction = supremacism?
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    (Original post by LibertyMan)
    Protecting your nation from extinction = supremacism?
    The nation is the set of people, of whatever heritage, who happen to live within that country at any time. End of.
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    The nation is the set of people, of whatever heritage, who happen to live within that country at any time. End of.
    That is massively oversimplifying what it means to be a nation
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    The issue here is that, understandably but falsely, there seems to be some confusion between British and white. One can be white and british, but they are not the same thing. I think it's time that the census reflects this but introducing the options Muslim-british, Black-British and other options to reflect the fact that nationality is more than ethnicity or religion.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    That is massively oversimplifying what it means to be a nation
    Okay, who live there and have the right to remain there. It has absolutely nothing to do with culture, tradition or whatever else.
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    Okay, who live there and have the right to remain there. It has absolutely nothing to do with culture, tradition or whatever else.
    That's still massively oversimplifying what it means to be a nation. That would cover the group of people living as subjects of a state, but is not sufficient for a nation, which are distinctly different entities.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    That's still massively oversimplifying what it means to be a nation. That would cover the group of people living as subjects of a state, but is not sufficient for a nation, which are distinctly different entities.
    In which case the distinction is irrelevant and the word 'nation' ought to be abandoned.
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    In which case the distinction is irrelevant and the word 'nation' ought to be abandoned.
    So because there is something which you disagree with it should be abandoned? Can we also abandon socialism because I disagree with it? And why exactly is the distinction irrelevant, you can have states that are not nations, nations that are not states, and nation states that are both nations and states. Sates are geopolitical entities, nations and cultural and ethnic ones. Britain is one of those funny places because of the countries in a countries concept, and we are still very strongly white, however that is in significant decline and it will over the next century, if things go as the rule of thumb say, to be able to call Britain a nation state may become somewhat questionable.
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    Okay, who live there and have the right to remain there. It has absolutely nothing to do with culture, tradition or whatever else.
    Do you actually believe that a nation is sustainable without a dominant culture?
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    So because there is something which you disagree with it should be abandoned? Can we also abandon socialism because I disagree with it? And why exactly is the distinction irrelevant, you can have states that are not nations, nations that are not states, and nation states that are both nations and states. Sates are geopolitical entities, nations and cultural and ethnic ones. Britain is one of those funny places because of the countries in a countries concept, and we are still very strongly white, however that is in significant decline and it will over the next century, if things go as the rule of thumb say, to be able to call Britain a nation state may become somewhat questionable.
    The distinction should be abandoned because it has no purpose, not because I disagree with anything.

    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Do you actually believe that a nation is sustainable without a dominant culture?
    Of course it is. Furthermore, most cultures aren't that different from one another.
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    The distinction should be abandoned because it has no purpose, not because I disagree with anything.

    Of course it is. Furthermore, most cultures aren't that different from one another.
    Most cultures in Europe may be similar but your not suggesting that the average Brit and Saudi are cultural brethren are you?

    I heavily disagree, cultural norms and values are socially conditioned and a big factor in tying people together in anything more than city states. If you fill Wales with Kenyans they'll soon want independence from England due to the lack of anything tying us together. An extreme example (and unrealistic since immigration occurs slow enough to allow some integration) but my point stands.
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    The nation is the set of people, of whatever heritage, who happen to live within that country at any time. End of.
    WHOOOOOA how did you think of that! You must be a genius, revolutionising politics with such great ideas!

    Unfortunatley that doesn't work in real life you idealist hippie.
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    The distinction should be abandoned because it has no purpose, not because I disagree with anything.



    Of course it is. Furthermore, most cultures aren't that different from one another.
    Why does it have no purpose, unless you actually believe that all peoples are ethnically and culturally identical, in which case I would like to introduce you to group of people called Islamic State, I'm sure as a group of murderous and barbaric despots you'll get along swimmingly and keep your head, after all, you're ethnically and culturally identical to them.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Most cultures in Europe may be similar but your not suggesting that the average Brit and Saudi are cultural brethren are you?

    I heavily disagree, cultural norms and values are socially conditioned and a big factor in tying people together in anything more than city states. If you fill Wales with Kenyans they'll soon want independence from England due to the lack of anything tying us together. An extreme example (and unrealistic since immigration occurs slow enough to allow some integration) but my point stands.
    Needless to say, I disagree, and I don't think there's any evidence to support your view.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Why does it have no purpose, unless you actually believe that all peoples are ethnically and culturally identical, in which case I would like to introduce you to group of people called Islamic State, I'm sure as a group of murderous and barbaric despots you'll get along swimmingly and keep your head, after all, you're ethnically and culturally identical to them.
    The difference from IS isn't cultural, it's ethical - and ethics are not peculiar to a nation or a state.
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    The difference from IS isn't cultural, it's ethical - and ethics are not peculiar to a nation or a state.
    Do you not think that culture has a part to play in ethics?
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    The difference from IS isn't cultural, it's ethical - and ethics are not peculiar to a nation or a state.
    Except I've just double checked definitions with the OED, CED, Merriam Webster, and Dictionary.com and all make it to be cultural.

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