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    (Original post by Fideo)
    Trophies are the main thing but how recently they were won is also relevant. A league title from 2014 is worth more than one from 1895.
    Unless you support the club that won it in 1895, then that's more relevant.

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    (Original post by Ggmu!)
    Unless you support the club that won it in 1895, then that's more relevant.

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    Wilf can you confirm that you are 125 years old
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    Once again Eboracum hits the nail on the head. Excellent poster.


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    (Original post by Eboracum)
    I don't agree. Trophies aren't king. They are just one of a symbiosis of factors. The trouble is, as we've talked about before, your view of football is purely on the pitch, and with working class West Ham fans down the Nags Head talking about the game. But it's changed. We now live in an era of the primacy of the markets, men in suits and corporations. Football now, is primarily a business, or at least, it's just as much a business as it is a sport.
    Trophies are king. Do you want van Gaal out because your shares went down or because some bellstrike in Malaysia follows Man City now, or is it because you're out of the title race already?

    Nobody jumps for joy when their club signs a new partnership with Korea's finest noodle maker ffs.

    How many people aged 15-25 in Japan, China, Singapore and Taiwan have heard of Aston Villa and Leeds United?
    Like I pointed out, you can't quantify that. I think you're probably underestimating Villa's worldwide support though. It doesn't compare with some other clubs, but it is pretty large.

    I really couldn't give two ****s what idiots in Africa or Asia think though, having discussed football with overseas fans online the vast majority of them are clueless, their opinions mean nothing.
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    (Original post by Wilfred Little)
    Trophies are king. Do you want van Gaal out because your shares went down or because some bellstrike in Malaysia follows Man City now, or is it because you're out of the title race already?

    Nobody jumps for joy when their club signs a new partnership with Korea's finest noodle maker ffs.

    Like I pointed out, you can't quantify that. I think you're probably underestimating Villa's worldwide support though. It doesn't compare with some other clubs, but it is pretty large.

    I really couldn't give two ****s what idiots in Africa or Asia think though, having discussed football with overseas fans online the vast majority of them are clueless, their opinions mean nothing.
    Our economic strategy is working. We still have at least ten times the amount of fans in Asia as Manchester City do, despite the fact that they have won 2 of the last 3 titles, and 6 of the last 7 derbies.

    I've made my anti-Van Gaal views quite clear in the MUFC thread.

    Actually, noodles in Korea are terrific.

    I acknowledge Aston Villa are a big club with worldwide support. I saw a Villa shirt in New York City once. I accept that. I'm just not sure as of 2014 they are bigger than Chelsea.

    You need to think more globally. It's not just about what happens inside the city walls of Manchester, London or Birmingham. It's a global race. It's a bit like the lottery; you've got to be in it to win it. I absolutely care what happens outside of our borders. The big clubs (Villa as well), have fans all over the world, and I think that's beautiful. I'd hate it if my club just had working class local riff raff support it. Not nice snobbery is it.
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    (Original post by Eboracum)
    Our economic strategy is working. We still have at least ten times the amount of fans in Asia as Manchester City do, despite the fact that they have won 2 of the last 3 titles, and 6 of the last 7 derbies.

    I've made my anti-Van Gaal views quite clear in the MUFC thread.
    You're anti van Gaal because under him, success on the pitch is less likely than if you had a top quality manager. It's not because of share prices or any other such nonsense.

    You need to think more globally. It's not just about what happens inside the city walls of Manchester, London or Birmingham. It's a global race. It's a bit like the lottery; you've got to be in it to win it. I absolutely care what happens outside of our borders. The big clubs (Villa as well), have fans all over the world, and I think that's beautiful. I'd hate it if my club just had working class local riff raff support it. Not nice snobbery is it.
    I'm not ashamed/bothered by being working class, & someone shouldn't be ashamed of supporting a team in another country but what I said is correct. Most of them are clueless you can't use what they think as a yardstick for who's big and who isn't.

    Go on your club's Facebook page and look at some of the weapons that comment on your articles and status updates. Then compare to someone phoning say, Talksport on a match day after their team has played.
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    (Original post by Wilfred Little)
    You're anti van Gaal because under him, success on the pitch is less likely than if you had a top quality manager. It's not because of share prices or any other such nonsense.
    Yes, first and foremost I want the team doing well on the pitch, and if they are, then usually other things will follow. I accept that trophies are at the forefront of anything.

    I suppose my core argument is that it depends on when you won those trophies. You have to keep topping it up to sustain that. If clubs won things in the 1980s or even 1990s but nothing since, probably 20 trophies are worth less than 7-8 trophies won between 2004 and 2014 in terms of adding to your big club status. Winning trophies in the present, will lead to economic success and a global fan base, key criteria for being a big club, which, of course, you can only achieve with success on the pitch.

    (Original post by Wilfred Little)
    I'm not ashamed/bothered by being working class, & someone shouldn't be ashamed of supporting a team in another country but what I said is correct. Most of them are clueless you can't use what they think as a yardstick for who's big and who isn't.

    Go on your club's Facebook page and look at some of the weapons that comment on your articles and status updates. Then compare to someone phoning say, Talksport on a match day after their team has played.
    There's absolutely nothing wrong with being working class. That wasn't the issue. The issue is, I don't like this idea that somebodies opinion is worth more than somebody else's based on certain criteria. I mean ok, if you know nothing about football, I accept that. But you'd get a lot of fans who follow the game every week and know a huge amount about the club. There voice is valid for me, especially in an era of globalisation. It's this argument about moral high ground which I'm against. If it's a lack of knowledge ok, but if it is location or citizenship criteria, no, somebody who has never been but knows a huge amount and cares about and loves the club is just a valid. I'd want us to be a global club. Your generalisation that most are clueless is difficult.

    My other worry Wilf, is the elitism. For me, if 100M Manchester United fans are online calling for Moyes to go, that is worth more than if the Stretford End want him to stay. I'm sorry, it just is. You end up with the match going elite being out of touch with the general fanbase, that fanbase that make the club different from those that just have local fans.

    Just because you live in Manchester and talk like Steve McDonald from Coronation Street doesn't mean your voice is more valid than in you live in Tokyo, Japan and have never been to Manchester IF (and it is a big if) you know the same amount about the club/football and you put a lot of support in (you might own the shirt, merchandise etc.)

    Weapons? Interesting term. A lot of people write silly things on the internet. I take no notice of our Facebook page, I haven't even got it liked.
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    (Original post by Eboracum)
    Just because you live in Manchester and talk like Steve McDonald from Coronation Street doesn't mean your voice is more valid than in you live in Tokyo, Japan and have never been to Manchester IF (and it is a big if) you know the same amount about the club/football and you put a lot of support in (you might own the shirt, merchandise etc.)
    Be realistic, generally, their voices are more valid. I don't think it's a coincidence the most clued up/knowledgeable MU fans on here, who know their onions and the unwritten rules that go with following a team, are Ian and StretfordEnd. sr90 as well, but I'm sure he's said he's a Manc, which just strengthens my point.

    if 100M Manchester United fans are online calling for Moyes to go, that is worth more than if the Stretford End want him to stay. I'm sorry, it just is.
    You think the opinions of lads who contribute nothing and watch on a laptop stream mean more than those who pay the manager's wages and travel to matches to support the team?
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    I'd say global recognition and the fact that we have a larger fanbase swings the argument in our favour seeing as the differences in the number of trophies won between us and Villa is rather small.

    Villa are bigger than City though.
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    (Original post by Wilfred Little)
    Be realistic, generally, their voices are more valid. I don't think it's a coincidence the most clued up/knowledgeable MU fans on here, who know their onions and the unwritten rules that go with following a team, are Ian and StretfordEnd. sr90 as well, but I'm sure he's said he's a Manc, which just strengthens my point.

    You think the opinions of lads who contribute nothing and watch on a laptop stream mean more than those who pay the manager's wages and travel to matches to support the team?
    No there not more valid. All you are doing is trying to argue those people have the moral high ground. I couldn't give a toss where you are from, it doesn't matter. I will never accept "unwritten rules", there are none in football. You support who you want, for whatever reason you want, and your voice counts towards your team. They are not the most knowledgeable or clued up fans either, they are just a few voices out of many.

    The only thing the Stretford End nearly contributed to last season was our demise by continuing to support Moyes. The moment 40,000 MU fans unliked the Facebook page after the Liverpool defeat he should have been gone.

    I'll argue for and defend our fans around the world, I hate the idea of only local people supporting United, that's not who we are, nor is it who we want to be. The game has changed since the 1990s, try to understand that. I'm a realist.
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    Fizzel doesn't live in manchester, ian dangerously knows little about football and talks about passion of being a united fan and his days out while saying how he would beat up liverpool fans or get into beef if he is in rome, stretford end was decent for a new guy but wasn't really this innovative guy.

    Wilf you're losing this argument.
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    Never knew Ebo could debate so well.
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    (Original post by Isometrix)
    Never knew Ebo could debate so well.
    Well he is a Politics student
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    (Original post by Isometrix)
    Never knew Ebo could debate so well.
    (Original post by sr90)
    Well he is a Politics student
    Useful skills learned on my Politics degree: I can have debates about the size of football clubs.
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    (Original post by Eboracum)
    Useful skills learned on my Politics degree: I can have debates about the size of football clubs.
    Are you the 21st centuries Margaret Thatcher Eb?


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    He does like the Thatchmeister.
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    (Original post by IceJJFish(II))
    Are you the 21st centuries Margaret Thatcher Eb?
    No. Look I didn't agree with everything she did, not by a long shot. Wouldn't want to be an MP tbh, there are others better suited on my course. I just think she was a great politician, one of my favourites. She had balls. And as Kim Jong-Il says in Team America 'I like balls'. Our current crop of government and opposition politicians could use some.

    But I also like some on the left so, yeah. Many students I know hate her, so a lot disagree with me. Generally I'm more right wing on foreign policy than domestic.
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    So guys. Need your helpz

    Since I'm on this unintentional gap year I thought I may as well make the most out of it. I'm working full time up until new years where I'll revert to part time but essentially earning lots of spending money, as I don't have any bills to pay atm. I really want to go on holiday next year since I haven't left England in like 8 years now. Need some ideas on where to go but I don't really want the typical "beaches and *****es" Spain holiday that almost every brit goes on. I'm more of a cultural person and want to explore but kinda want to make sure that the place is semi tourist friendly since I've never actually travelled this far on my own before. My budget is as much as I want it to be but really I just want it to cap off at max 1k
    and as far as hotels go 2 stars is more than ideal?
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    (Original post by Eboracum)
    No. Look I didn't agree with everything she did, not by a long shot. Wouldn't want to be an MP tbh, there are others better suited on my course. I just think she was a great politician, one of my favourites. She had balls. And as Kim Jong-Il says in Team America 'I like balls'. Our current crop of government and opposition politicians could use some.

    But I also like some on the left so, yeah. Many students I know hate her, so a lot disagree with me.
    Frankly who cares what most students say. Most have nothing other than spoon-fed opinions.

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    (Original post by Eboracum)
    No. Look I didn't agree with everything she did, not by a long shot. Wouldn't want to be an MP tbh, there are others better suited on my course. I just think she was a great politician, one of my favourites. She had balls. And as Kim Jong-Il says in Team America 'I like balls'. Our current crop of government and opposition politicians could use some.

    But I also like some on the left so, yeah. Many students I know hate her, so a lot disagree with me.
    I can't claim to be knowledgable enough about her to comment, but I admire your enthusiasm. It's refreshing to hear someone of our young age taking a keen interest in our future.


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