Doctor Who - Discussion Thread II Watch

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The Doctor. SW
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#821
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#821
(Original post by TheCrackInTime)
You are obviously unfamiliar with the concept of humour. :pierre:
It wasn't funny
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Interrobang
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#822
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#822
I read every post... A bit late to this, but I have watched Dr Who from the beginning of the modern series. This ep hurt my brain :sad:

My feelings... That River is somehow a timelord (whether Amy's child or another way) - as she can pilot the TARDIS and actually seems better at it than The Doctor, as she said that she'll actually get them to where they want to be. I like the theory about different timelines :yep: Wild speculation - could the doctor regenerating cause a new timeline to form?

I couldn't believe that my mum didn't realise that the girl was regenerating at the end!!!
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TheCrackInTime
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#823
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#823
(Original post by The Doctor. SW)
It wasn't funny
It was an in-joke, based on how quickly this thread moves on. You obviously didn't get it. :pierre:
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Ape Gone Insane
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#824
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#824
Somebody on GB just posted their own theory which I'm quoting over because it's so good, it sounds credible. I like this theory, well I have a few small problems with it, but it's a good theory.

I've been waiting all month to post this (ever since the advance screening in New York). Nothing here is based on spoilers post-Episode 2 and those of you who've seen ALL the spoilers can determine whether this makes sense or not:

(apologies for length)

What do the Silence want? What’s their end game? Well, as revealed in The Pandorica Opens, what they’d really like to do is to take control of the TARDIS and use it to wipe out all of time and space. But, as any fool or Dalek will tell you, “Only the Dok-tor can pilot the TARDIS!”

Well, the Doctor and River Song. Seems like a strange thing for the Daleks to miss, right? Well, we’ll come back to that later.

Anyway, the Silence want to take control of the TARDIS, but they need a Timelord to pilot the TARDIS, so they’re going to have to get one of those too. And how will their Timelord learn to fly a TARDIS? Well, they better make some practice TARDISes as well. (See Lodger, Impossible Astronaut.)

But wait, wait, wait! How do the Silence even know about the Doctor or the TARDIS?

Well, it all began in 1969, when the Silence abducted a pregnant Amy Pond. Who was she? Where did she get her strange, futuristic phone? Who are her friends? Who is this Doctor? What’s a TARDIS? How did the Doctor die? As they get more and more information, the Silence hatch a plan.

Take control of the TARDIS. End the universe.

If only they had a Timelord! Well, they don’t have one, but they do have Amy who is (a) pregnant and (b) a time traveler. Timelords are time travelers, but most time travelers aren’t Timelords! Still, we know from Flesh and Stone that simply BEING a time traveler changes you. “Good, isn’t it?” said the Doctor. Well, maybe not.

So Amy’s baby isn’t naturally a Timelord, but they can do a thing (let’s call it “quantum destabilization”) to turn a time traveler fetus into a proto-Timelord. As a consequence, Amy is both pregnant and not-pregnant. And they release Amy, and Amy immediately forgets all of this.

Sometime later, Amy is ready to give birth/not give birth and a post-hypnotic suggestion kicks in. She winds up back in 1963 or thereabouts, where she tells the Silence everything and happily hands over her baby. She even poses for a picture before she does! The Silence can’t believe their luck, because from their perspective, none of this has happened yet. But even so, a good “end the universe” plan is a good “end the universe” plan! No point in arguing.

So they raise Amy’s daughter at the creepiest of all creepy orphanages, and eventually it gets shut down for being TOO CREEPY! But they keep Amy’s daughter (and Mr. Renfrew in case anyone comes around asking questions).

So the Silence spend the ensuing years training Amy’s daughter to fly fake TARDISes and using a specially developed spacesuit to “incubate her Timelordiness”. Amy daughter doesn’t develop any long term memories through this period, but she is loaded with LOTS of post-hypnotic suggestions.

Number one: Next time you see the Doctor, kill him!

1969 rolls around again and Amy and company show up again and seem to scrobble the Silence’s plans, and in the chaos, the girl escapes. No worries, say the Silence. All part of the plan! The girl wonders aimlessly, not sure who she is, and getting progressively weaker without her incubation suit. After six months of this, her body gives out, and she regenerates for the first time.

Post-regeneration, the girl’s in a bit better shape. She’s stabile now, and starting to form an identity. But she still has all these post-hypnotic suggestions in her head. Including one that says she should recover that suit of hers and hide in a lake in the year 2011 and pop out and kill the Doctor. And there’s even a Silent on hand to make sure it happens the way they planned (and Amy told them it would happen) all those years ago.

Amy’s memory becomes her daughter’s post-hypnotic suggestion becomes reality.

Over time, those childhood post-hypnotic suggestions push Amy’s daughter in new directions: She finds a way to become a time traveler AND a doctor. Sound familiar? And she finds a way to infiltrate the Doctor’s inner circle by assuming the identity of one of his known associates: River Song. River Song who the Evil Alien Alliance overlooked, because River Song shouldn’t exist. She’s a paradox designed to pilot the greatest spaceship in all of time and space. She is…
[drumroll, please]

…an Impossible Astronaut.

And in the year 2010, on a day written into the base code of the universe, SAYS RIVER, River takes control of the TARDIS and uses it to destroy the universe, while a voice THAT ONLY SHE CAN HEAR keeps crying out “SILENCE WILL FALL!” A voice she’s carried with her, without knowing it, since her earliest days.

There’s good news: Though River essentially KILLED the universe at the end of THE PANDORICA OPENS, the Doctor figured out a way to bring it back. But now that River has killed the Doctor, can the Doctor figure out a way to bring himself back? Find out in Series 6 of Doctor Who!

(Note that this theory isn't helped tremendously if later in the season the Doctor fights the Silence in 1963 and accidentally gives them some of his DNA. That'll allow the Silence to hatch this plan in 1963 instead of 1969 and then to inject Amy with Doctor DNA in 1969 to make the baby more Timelordy. But I have no idea if that happens or not.)
Hiya123321
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#825
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#825
^
then to inject Amy with Doctor DNA in 1969 to make the baby more Timelordy.
Maybe Amy's baby is dying, inside her, with only a month to go (have a birth on doctor who, erm - no); therefore, the doctor saves Amy's baby by injecting her with time lord DNA and saves her.

Then, maybe the child and Amy could be like the doctor and River: his past is her future (oslt), which explains why .... er, I don't know, it explains something - I think.
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annab1993
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#826
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#826
ME! I absolutely adored David Tennant as the Doctor, even though Matt Smith is doing a good job now I don't think he's as emotional to watch as David. I thought him and Billie Piper as Rose was an amazing partnership, and when the Doctor left Rose on the beach in the 'Doomsday' episode I watched it several times and still cried! The Doctor's partners since then haven't been that good to watch, Martha was okay but I didn't like her at the time for the reason that she had just taken the role from Billie Piper and I was fuming lol I don't think Catherine Tate as Donna really connected with me, because every time she was on screen I was just waiting for her to make a joke cos that's what I'm used to seeing from her. And then there's the actress who plays Amy Pond, I've gotta admit she has grown on me but I wouldn't mind if she got replaced by someone else. Don't get me wrong, I still love Doctor Who, but something has been missing since David left xx
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sleekchic
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#827
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#827
(Original post by Ape Gone Insane)
Somebody on GB just posted their own theory which I'm quoting over because it's so good, it sounds credible. I like this theory, well I have a few small problems with it, but it's a good theory.
It sounds well, it doesn't sound very credible. I'll elaborate in the morning.
Ape Gone Insane
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#828
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#828
(Original post by Rascacielos)
Oh dear. Well what's your verdict on this series then (so much speculation going around, I lose track of who thinks what)? I'll keep an eye out for you being right!
I genuinely have no idea.

You're right when you say that there is so much stuff going on, that there are so many theories that can be probable. That was probably deliberate. If you get the typical linear opener and the small references (Series 2 - Torchwood, Series 3 - Saxon) then you can begin to speculate what Torchwood is and who Saxon is. Even in Series 5, it opened with the cracks (one string of speculation) and it wasn't until the Angels two parter where we got another wave of speculation about Future Doctors.

Here we have, in the first two episodes alone

  1. Silence Will Fall
  2. Silents' ships/clone TARDIS
  3. Orphanage with Madame Kovarian - dream dialogue
  4. Little girl
  5. Future Doctor dead
  6. More River Song mystery
  7. Pregnancy
  8. Regeneration


Where do you begin?

I definitely think that if the girl is able to regenerate (which she has) that her regeneration ability comes from being in the womb of someone travelling in time, or being injected with some Time Lord DNA or something of the sort. That's my theory on that anyway. :moon:

(Original post by sleekchic)
Spoiler about Amy and the finale:
Spoiler:
Show
Want to find the most dangerous place in the universe? Easy. Harm a hair on Amy’s head any just wait. But as the last of the Time Lords and the Lone Centurion blaze across galaxies to save the woman in both their lives, history is unfolding. In her cell, in Stormcage, River Song knows the time has come at last. She has a secret, and this is the day she tells it.

The battle of Demons Run has begun. And the Doctor’s darkest hour is now.

There is a massive massive twist coming up this series, and it’s all to do with Amy Pond. "The calamitous and, frankly, shocking events at the climax of episode seven will still be ringing in your ears when Doctor Who returns in the autumn for a further six episodes."

You’ll see The Doctor’s life change forever. You will gasp at the true nature of his relationship with Amy and cry out in horror as Rory Williams stumbles to the brink of a tragic mistake.”

There is "The frankly appalling revelation concerning the one person in the universe the Doctor trusts the most" [note: we still don't know who that is. River? Amy? Someone else? that's up for debate.]

To reinforce the point, he added that “It is an enormous, game-changing cliffhanger for The Doctor, Amy and Rory. It’ll change everything for them.”

I really don’t want to give too much away, but… if you take someone like the Doctor and really piss him off, if you set yourself up to go to war with the Doctor, what would happen? Obviously you’d lose, it would be a massive, crushing defeat, but what side of the Doctor does it bring out? He’s actually quite capable of being really unpleasant to people. Of course he is. He’s a man like anyone else. If you treated Amy with extraordinary cruelty, how long would you live after that?


Bits in bold are the most important/interesting imo.


Spoiler:
Show
It doesn't seem to be any odd adventure. For whatever reason it's linked to episode 7 (two parter) and it has nazis and doppelgangers/clones of Amy and possibly the others.
Spoiler:
Show
So we have 4 episodes revolving around dopplegangers. Also heard there is a scene reminiscent of Empire Strikes Back. Han Solo trapped in frozen in that thing?
sleekchic
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#829
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#829
(Original post by Ape Gone Insane)
I genuinely have no idea.

You're right when you say that there is so much stuff going on, that there are so many theories that can be probable. That was probably deliberate. If you get the typical linear opener and the small references (Series 2 - Torchwood, Series 3 - Saxon) then you can begin to speculate what Torchwood is and who Saxon is. Even in Series 5, it opened with the cracks (one string of speculation) and it wasn't until the Angels two parter where we got another wave of speculation about Future Doctors.

Here we have, in the first two episodes alone

  1. Silence Will Fall
  2. Silents' ships/clone TARDIS
  3. Orphanage with Madame Kovarian - dream dialogue
  4. Little girl
  5. Future Doctor dead
  6. More River Song mystery
  7. Pregnancy
  8. Regeneration


Where do you begin?

I definitely think that if the girl is able to regenerate (which she has) that her regeneration ability comes from being in the womb of someone travelling in time, or being injected with some Time Lord DNA or something of the sort. That's my theory on that anyway. :moon:



Spoiler:
Show
So we have 4 episodes revolving around dopplegangers. Also heard there is a scene reminiscent of Empire Strikes Back. Han Solo trapped in frozen in that thing?
I'm sorry. I really am but I know nothing about Star Wars. Well I know a little but I've never really watched it so that flew over my head. I've been meaning to rectify this for a while but it'll probably have to wait until summer.

And now I really should go to bed. I can barely keep my eyes open.

4 episodes? I only know of 2.
Ape Gone Insane
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#830
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#830
(Original post by sleekchic)
I'm sorry. I really am but I know nothing about Star Wars. Well I know a little but I've never really watched it so that flew over my head. I've been meaning to rectify this for a while but it'll probably have to wait until summer.

And now I really should go to bed. I can barely keep my eyes open.

4 episodes? I only know of 2.
Fair enough. A scene reminiscent could be:

Spoiler:
Show


Perhaps the Doctor in that?

Yup, 4 episodes. Episode 5 - The Rebel Flesh and Episode 6 - The Almost People. And judging by what you've said, if they're in episode 8, they will be in episode 7.

Get some sleep then. Night.
JO FO SHO
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#831
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#831
Did I miss something, or wouldn't there be loads of dead Silents lying around after the suicide broadcast lol.

And I feel bad for River. Her last kiss with the Doctor and he was all weirded out by it
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skipp
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#832
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#832
There are some interesting theories here, I'm a little pre-occupied with river at the moment :moon: so not sure what to think, thinking back a long long way to around the library episode in the 4th (?) series, missed loads of episodes around that time, so just wondering who the children are that river reads stories to? The everybody knows that everybody dies speech that she reads to 3 children as a bedtime story, do we ever find out?
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rmhumphries
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#833
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#833
(Original post by ??????????????????)
Why did the Silence need Amy for their fake TARDIS.
Looks like their plans involve Time Lords. Time Lord child and fake TARDIS.
In The Lodger, didn't the Doctor saying something about if he tried to fly the ship, it would blow up? If they think Amy is time-lady, or because she has travelled in time has more mind-power than a normal human, maybe with her flying to the right point and causing the ship to explode, they can create the Tardis exploding, bringing the silence?

(Original post by ??????????????????)
I think they were trying to build their own TARDIS. I think on the previous page, somebody said they might wanna go back in time and influence the begining of the world til the end. Maybe they need their own TARDIS.

Also, I've forgotten, what did the enemy in the Lodger turn out to be?

EDIT: googled it. In the Lodger, they see a little girl don't they? Is it the same? Did the Silent force the humans to try and force humans to pilot it with their hypnotism?
The enemy in the lodger was the auto-pilot, that ship had crashed according to the AI iirc.

(Original post by sleekchic)
And more: The Silents said that Amy had been there for days. The woman (keep forgetting her name) said that (presumably she meant) Amy was still dreaming.

Coincidence? :holmes:
I put that down to lying to break an enemies resolve on behalf of the silents. Remember the transmitter thing, I don't think Rory would have let the Doctor just sit around for days with Amy missing. We know they responding to Canton's call as soon Amy was discovered missing (while they were at the children's home).

(Original post by Circadian_Rhythm)
Who is the girl?
What the hell is up with the 'dreaming' scene?
Who is River Song?
What is River's relation to the Doctor?
How did the Silents get hold of the Lodger TARDIS?
The picture of Amy with the child, who says that's the same child as the girl at the end?
Can half Time-Lords regenerate?
When Rory asked River what kind of Doctor she was, was this a throwaway comment?
They must have two hearts (Doctor / Donna who stayed with Rose only had one heart and so would live a normal human life).
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Ape Gone Insane
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#834
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#834
(Original post by rmhumphries)
The enemy in the lodger was the auto-pilot, that ship had crashed according to the AI iirc.
The Doctor briefly mentions 'Aickman Road' aka Lodger TARDIS in today's episode. He says he wonders why it was abandoned, but then trails off.

Wonder why it was abandoned. :holmes:
Dinendal Leralonde
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#835
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#835
I was wondering why I wasn't seeing an update on the other thread in my subscriptions box :p:

And now, since I've been at work since 4:30 Saturday afternoon, it's time to watch epsidoe 2 without reading anything else in this thread :awesome:
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TheCrackInTime
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#836
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#836
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Aula
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#837
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#837
(Original post by TheCrackInTime)
:mmm:
Is Kate looking at it?
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TheCrackInTime
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#838
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#838
(Original post by Aula)
:mmm:
Is Kate looking at it?
Looking at what?
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TheCrackInTime
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#839
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#839
Open if you want to see Steven Moffat dancing in a fez
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Aula
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#840
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#840
(Original post by TheCrackInTime)
Looking at what?
I say looking at, I meant turning round to look at/turning back from looking at.

I need to sleep :yawn:
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