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Doctor Who - Discussion Thread III (no untagged future spoilers) watch

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    (Original post by james22)
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    Are they actually going to give us the doctors name? Am I the only one who thinks that would really, really suck.
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    I don't think so.

    Or if they do, he'll change it or something. It would take the whole mystery out of Doctor Who if we knew his name.
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    (Original post by Rascacielos)
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    I don't think so.

    Or if they do, he'll change it or something. It would take the whole mystery out of Doctor Who if we knew his name.
    I just can't think of any name that's do it justice :/
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    Exactly. I just don't think the writers will want to spoil everything by giving us a name, because no words are quite as powerful as 'the Doctor.' 'The Oncoming Storm' was about as good as it got.

    So either we won't ever hear the name, or we will hear it and then it'll change (unlikely probably) or for some other reason it won't stop us asking "Doctor Who?"

    I am intrigued - not particularly to hear his name, but to see whether they're going to be able to pull it off without either spoiling the whole concept of Doctor Who or side-stepping around the name in a really bad way. I have similar concerns/intrigue about the 50th and how they're going to deal with the return of DT.


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    They won't reveal it, how many times have they had the dialogue:
    Who are you?
    I'm the Doctor
    Doctor who?
    Just 'The Doctor'

    Used to love that as a kid and it'd suck if they revealed it

    Maybe they'll just use I. M. Freeman, seeing as they are going back to 76 Totters Lane anyway (place of 1st episide)


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    I liked Matt Smith at first but now he's starting to annoy me :/ I thinks it's because of the writing though, he just seems so childish and prances about
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    (Original post by JordanS94)
    I liked Matt Smith at first but now he's starting to annoy me :/ I thinks it's because of the writing though, he just seems so childish and prances about
    This is what bothers me about MS. When he goes into "kiddy" mode. When he's not though, I love him. For example, in his big speech in TROA, I thought he was utterly fantastic. It's just when he starts going all silly and waving his arms around unnecessarily, it's annoying.
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    (Original post by JordanS94)
    I liked Matt Smith at first but now he's starting to annoy me :/ I thinks it's because of the writing though, he just seems so childish and prances about
    (Original post by Maid Marian)
    This is what bothers me about MS. When he goes into "kiddy" mode. When he's not though, I love him. For example, in his big speech in TROA, I thought he was utterly fantastic. It's just when he starts going all silly and waving his arms around unnecessarily, it's annoying.
    It was once pointed out to me that stage actors externalise and film/TV actors internalise; it's like he's trying to be a stage actor but on TV. I think why it seems so childish is that children's TV actors do the same thing as he does; make movements big as if they're on stage etc etc. DT was so good because he could command an episode by just wiggling an eyebrow type thing. That's what I think anyway

    And the "quirky-ness" is starting to really annoy me. One too many jokes about biscuits, hats and chins. Sigh. I miss the good old days.

    EDIT: That just reminded me how much I hated one of the lines at the end of the last episode that went along the lines of "He must be an alien because he has a big chin" OH my life, so much hate for Moffat, stop killing our show!!
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    (Original post by The Wild Youth)
    It was once pointed out to me that stage actors externalise and film/TV actors internalise; it's like he's trying to be a stage actor but on TV. I think why it seems so childish is that children's TV actors do the same thing as he does; make movements big as if they're on stage etc etc. DT was so good because he could command an episode by just wiggling an eyebrow type thing. That's what I think anyway

    And the "quirky-ness" is starting to really annoy me. One too many jokes about biscuits, hats and chins. Sigh. I miss the good old days.

    EDIT: That just reminded me how much I hated one of the lines at the end of the last episode that went along the lines of "He must be an alien because he has a big chin" OH my life, so much hate for Moffat, stop killing our show!!
    That does make sense. That might be it. But you know, I'm wondering whether it is really MS's fault. I believe he can do subtle, and he's good at it (not as good as DT though!), so maybe it's Moffat or the directors telling him to "externalise"? But then again, I've never seen MS in anything other than DW, so.

    Oh yeah, and the "quirky jokes" can get really annoying.
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    (Original post by Maid Marian)
    That does make sense. That might be it. But you know, I'm wondering whether it is really MS's fault. I believe he can do subtle, and he's good at it (not as good as DT though!), so maybe it's Moffat or the directors telling him to "externalise"? But then again, I've never seen MS in anything other than DW, so.

    Oh yeah, and the "quirky jokes" can get really annoying.
    I dunno, i'm yet to see a really truly good piece of "subtle" acting by MS, I just sort of cringe through it because it seems very fake to me! But like you i've never seen him in anything else by DW so I can't compare!

    It's kind of a shame we never got to see MS in the "Tennant era" of writers and directors, would be so interesting to see the differences.

    Definitely agree that it could be Moffat's image of the doctor being projected in the quirky "externalisation" acting of MS; guess we wont know until we get a new doctor or new Moffat?
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    (Original post by The Wild Youth)
    I dunno, i'm yet to see a really truly good piece of "subtle" acting by MS, I just sort of cringe through it because it seems very fake to me! But like you i've never seen him in anything else by DW so I can't compare!

    It's kind of a shame we never got to see MS in the "Tennant era" of writers and directors, would be so interesting to see the differences.

    Definitely agree that it could be Moffat's image of the doctor being projected in the quirky "externalisation" acting of MS; guess we wont know until we get a new doctor or new Moffat?
    This is one thing that really does confuse me. The writing during RTD era was awful most of the time.

    Moffat can at least write half decent stories. While doctor who can have some awful stories the show is not any worse now than it has been throughout the reboot.

    I really don't understand why people seem to see massive differences between RTD and Moffat. Quite a few of the stories are pants with a few stand out episodes and some totally unwatchable. I really don't see much of a difference (although I am glad the bull**** time war is being mentioned less frequently now).
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    (Original post by justanotherposter)
    Was that the first Doctor Who episode this series that people have actually died in? Probably why I liked it, the ending didn't make the bad guys turn out to be nice, there was no button that made everyone come back to life and there was no speeches about love which have been plaguing this series. Why was Clara so shocked to see a picture of herself in Victorian London though? Obviously this is going to be the first step towards her realising she's lived more than once, but if I saw a picture of myself somewhere I hadn't been my first thought would just be that it must be somewhere I'm going to time travel back to at some point.
    Also Jenny is a lot more likeable than Clara, shame she isn't the companion.
    I actually quite liked the episode as well. I've severely disliked most if not all of the Doctor Who episodes from the last couple of years, because of what you said about how there's always a magic button and speeches about love and caring.
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    (Original post by Politics Student)
    I really don't understand why people seem to see massive differences between RTD and Moffat. Quite a few of the stories are pants with a few stand out episodes and some totally unwatchable. I really don't see much of a difference (although I am glad the bull**** time war is being mentioned less frequently now).
    Maybe it's just nostalgia but for me the reason why it seems worse for me now is that there is usually no sense of danger. People died in RTD's stories, which meant the monsters were a threat, whilst the Doctor and his companion were obviously going to live you knew others weren't which made them threatening. Compare that to most Moffat monsters and they never kill anyone, which makes them look a lot less threatening, eg those zombie things from the Tardis episode, they didn't do anything, they just chased people around, unless we actually see them kill someone it's hard to see them as anything but incompetent. Plus the screwdriver does too much, RTD screwdriver just seemed to hack stuff which was fine, Moffat's screwdriver has singlehandedly saved the day before, which is terrible storytelling. Not to mention that it can hold up doors somehow.

    My main problem with it though is how rushed it seems, Moffat's stories never seem to take a breather, whenever they stop to talk a monster will appear or an explosion will happen within 30 seconds and suddenly we're running away again, it's like the show doesn't think it's audience has a long enough attention span to listen to talking, I can't help but feel that when he was doing season wide plotlines it would have been easier to follow if the Doctor slowed down. I miss the 2 parters, they were always the best because the story had room to breathe. I'm not sure him and Clara have had a proper conversation yet, it all seems to be one liners and then run away. I probably sound like I hate everything now, I don't I just feel that the old stuff was much better, although any Victorian episode is always enjoyable just because of the characters in it.
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    My god, what a dreadful load of rubbish. Was there any purpose to that Victorian alien group even being in the episode? Doctor Who doesn't seem to have any focus in it's narrative and instead throws things at you constantly so you don't care. Should've been focused on the blind lady, she could've freed the Doctor. The tone was retarded. Clara didn't do anything but beat the Doctor to destroying the machine. When the Doctor was healed in the magic undoing machine I had no idea what it was and we were given barely any time to get to grips with what anything was. I still don't understand why they were dipping people in the red poison. Testing purposes? What was Clara meant to be doing? If they spent more time working the complex scheme of the villain into the story I might have known or have been able to take it in.

    The way it was told was awful. It focused on the alien group of detectives, that I'm sure no-one cares about having been given no context to their existence unless it was quickly mentioned in the first episode they appeared, and right up to the woman finding Matt Smith, the group suddenly became a hindrance.

    Worst bit was the kids at the end. They're going to be so bloody annoying and arrogant and, for whatever reason, undermining whatever the Doctor says next episode. They're not going to have any depth. Steven Moffat is struggling to add depth to Clara. Her life seems to have been completely normal after whatever backstory she had in the second episode, which was basically just setting up the deus ex machina leaf to save the world from the evil star. We haven't seen anything affect her life. All we know is she's a computer whizz because she owns a laptop, she acts eccentric for no apparent reason and she has copies of herself dying, which is what Moffat thinks we're going to take for a series hook.

    The only redeeming thing this series can do is to get those kids skinned alive, tortured and brutally killed off in the opening. Why would they have been looking at random pictures from the Victorian period or Russian pictures during the cold war? This is why I utterly hate this. They've got these two dumb children and have basically wrote in that they've done as much research into historical periods that Clara's been to, without knowing that she was there before coincidentally stumbling across every available picture of her, as the conspiracy theorist from Rose, which is more plausible because he could've spent years researching the appearances of Christopher Eccleston, whereas these are dumb kids. What sort of research have they done? What sort of resources just happen to have pictures of all of Clara's trips?

    This is just another time travel cliche of getting involved in the past and suddenly finding that you've changed the present, such as how Torchwood was suddenly set up the same series we see Queen Victoria start it.
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    (Original post by Politics Student)
    This is one thing that really does confuse me. The writing during RTD era was awful most of the time.

    Moffat can at least write half decent stories. While doctor who can have some awful stories the show is not any worse now than it has been throughout the reboot.

    I really don't understand why people seem to see massive differences between RTD and Moffat. Quite a few of the stories are pants with a few stand out episodes and some totally unwatchable. I really don't see much of a difference (although I am glad the bull**** time war is being mentioned less frequently now).
    I think that for me, quite simply, the massive, most obvious difference between them is that I can recall dozens of episodes from the RTD era whilst with Moffat, I'm yet to watch a single truly memorable episode.

    It's descended into overly complex storylines which overarch the series, or else plots which shrivel up and conclude in the last minute of the episode. People don't die, things don't explode and there's no "scare-factor" anymore.

    The show is definitely, irrefutably worse and yet I will still watch it, in the hope it improves back to the good old days.
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    (Original post by The Wild Youth)
    I think that for me, quite simply, the massive, most obvious difference between them is that I can recall dozens of episodes from the RTD era whilst with Moffat, I'm yet to watch a single truly memorable episode.

    It's descended into overly complex storylines which overarch the series, or else plots which shrivel up and conclude in the last minute of the episode. People don't die, things don't explode and there's no "scare-factor" anymore.

    The show is definitely, irrefutably worse and yet I will still watch it, in the hope it improves back to the good old days.
    There have been a couple of memorable episodes in the Moffat era, The Doctor's Wife for one of them - but I agree there were far more from RTD.
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    I'm telling myself that the poor endings like the leaf in the Akhaten episode will have a deeper meaning in the finale, just gonna hope.
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    (Original post by The Wild Youth)
    I think that for me, quite simply, the massive, most obvious difference between them is that I can recall dozens of episodes from the RTD era whilst with Moffat, I'm yet to watch a single truly memorable episode.
    I don't know about this. The majority of the RTD era episodes I remember were episodes I hate. Love and Monsters, School Reunion, Fear her, and The end of time.

    I have enjoyed more of the Moffat era and this series at least the first half of this series being pretty damn enjoyable episode after episode (even with that awful angel story).


    It's descended into overly complex storylines which overarch the series, or else plots which shrivel up and conclude in the last minute of the episode. People don't die, things don't explode and there's no "scare-factor" anymore.
    The thing is I would not call these overly complex stories. They are overarching sure but over complex not really.

    The thing is during the RTD era we had mentions of something that would be the final episode.

    Series 1 it was bad wolf.
    Series 2 it was torch wood... etc

    These are not over arching story lines. They simply mentions of the same phrase. I personally welcome the over arching story lines, but then again I personally enjoy Babylon 5 (this had multiple series long overarching story plots such as the coming Shadow War) and Battlestar Galactica.

    The show is definitely, irrefutably worse and yet I will still watch it, in the hope it improves back to the good old days.
    I don't think the show is worse. In many ways I feel the show has been going from strength to strength. The key problems with the show are the same issues that have plagued the reboot:
    1) Stories are far too short and the majority of the time they feel rushed.
    2) Please stop setting the show in London
    3) The sonic screwdriver is a magic wand and can do anything the plot demands (this is an issue which has developed over a very long time)



    (Original post by justanotherposter)
    Maybe it's just nostalgia but for me the reason why it seems worse for me now is that there is usually no sense of danger. People died in RTD's stories, which meant the monsters were a threat, whilst the Doctor and his companion were obviously going to live you knew others weren't which made them threatening. Compare that to most Moffat monsters and they never kill anyone, which makes them look a lot less threatening, eg those zombie things from the Tardis episode, they didn't do anything, they just chased people around, unless we actually see them kill someone it's hard to see them as anything but incompetent.
    I don't know about this. I always found the extras to be like red shirts and I have never cared whether they live or die.

    This is more a problem with stories being too short so developing side characters is rarely done well.

    As for side characters dying. I have not noticed the lack of death or at least any negative impact.

    The main characters are always pretty much safe from death so they really never provide any emoutional fear response when they are in trouble.

    Plus the screwdriver does too much, RTD screwdriver just seemed to hack stuff which was fine, Moffat's screwdriver has singlehandedly saved the day before, which is terrible storytelling. Not to mention that it can hold up doors somehow.
    The sonic screwdriver has been a problem since it was introduced in classic who as a screw driver, but this is more of an issue in New Who as the stories are shorter.

    On the note on what the 9th and 10th doctors screwdriver did:

    DIAGNOSTIC
    Detecting and stopping telepathic signals. (TV: Rose)
    Scanning a life form for information, specifically Donna Noble. (TV: The Runaway Bride)


    TECHNOLOGY
    Destroying the controls of a lift. (TV: Rose)
    Establishing an interface with a computer. (TV: The End of the World)
    Controlling a lift. (TV: World War Three)
    Obtaining money from a cash machine. (TV: The Long Game)
    Opening off a panel to Satellite Five's mainframe. (TV: The Long Game)
    Getting money from a cash machine, at both regular and extra-high rates of ejection. (TV: The Runaway Bride)
    Obtaining access to Satellite Five's core computer. (TV: The Long Game)
    Charging from a battery. (TV: Father's Day)
    Reversing teleport devices. (TV: Boom Town)
    Destroying a television camera. (TV: Bad Wolf)
    Dematerialising the TARDIS and initialising TARDIS processes from outside the craft. (TV: The Parting of the Ways)
    Blowing up a remote control Christmas tree. (TV: The Christmas Invasion)
    Reestablishing the time window's connection to a space ship in the future. (TV: The Girl in the Fireplace)
    De-activating a living graphite scribble. (TV: Fear Her)
    Detonating an explosive device. (TV: Doomsday)
    Detonating the head of a roboform. (TV: The Runaway Bride)
    Searching a phone for an app or a feature. (TV: The Runaway Bride)
    Summoning the TARDIS using Huon particles. (TV: The Runaway Bride)
    Scanning through hospital records, specifically to find any patient suffering from strange symptoms (an alien in disguise). (TV: Smith and Jones)
    http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Sonic_screwdriver

    Really this is not an issue from the transition from the 10th to 11th. Really this issue has plagued new who and chances are you have seen enough eps now that it is becoming as annoying to you as it did to me since the start of the reboot.


    My main problem with it though is how rushed it seems, Moffat's stories never seem to take a breather, whenever they stop to talk a monster will appear or an explosion will happen within 30 seconds and suddenly we're running away again, it's like the show doesn't think it's audience has a long enough attention span to listen to talking, I can't help but feel that when he was doing season wide plotlines it would have been easier to follow if the Doctor slowed down. I miss the 2 parters, they were always the best because the story had room to breathe.
    Again I would point my finger to the whole of new who rather than Moffat.

    But yes longer stories do give a lot more room for story and character developments. Now not every episode will be gold of course. Some of the classic who is awful as they had to pad a story to 4 episodes long others felt rushed. Same goes for the quality of New Who writing which really is all over the place. One week the quality is excellent and others it is almost unwatchable. This is true of the two parters. The end of time was one of the worst New Who Stories I have ever seen.

    I'm not sure him and Clara have had a proper conversation yet, it all seems to be one liners and then run away. I probably sound like I hate everything now, I don't I just feel that the old stuff was much better, although any Victorian episode is always enjoyable just because of the characters in it.
    Yeah I have not really taken to Clara yet. We will wait and see.

    I think part of the issue is the Doctor does not yet trust her and is trying to hide his obsession over her. I was quite impressed in the story into the heart of the Tardis the doctor came out and directly asked her. Then of course the episode reset so the chat never happened.... wonderful.


    (Original post by rmhumphries)
    There have been a couple of memorable episodes in the Moffat era, The Doctor's Wife for one of them - but I agree there were far more from RTD.
    Don't know I rather enjoyed the story with the flesh. The God Complex was also a rather nice story. Again I mainly remember the worst episodes of the RTD era as that was the point I gave up on the new series. I only came back after RTD left the show and Matt Smith took over. I then went back and watched the entire show before the new series with Matt Smith started.
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    (Original post by The Wild Youth)
    I think that for me, quite simply, the massive, most obvious difference between them is that I can recall dozens of episodes from the RTD era whilst with Moffat, I'm yet to watch a single truly memorable episode.

    It's descended into overly complex storylines which overarch the series, or else plots which shrivel up and conclude in the last minute of the episode. People don't die, things don't explode and there's no "scare-factor" anymore.

    The show is definitely, irrefutably worse and yet I will still watch it, in the hope it improves back to the good old days.
    These are my feelings exactly. I find series finales from the RTD era are especially more memorable and exciting.
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    Moffat's stories are tedious to watch sometimes, they just feel all over the place (like The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon and The Angels Take Manhattan).
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    (Original post by An Ignorant Duck)
    Moffat's stories are tedious to watch sometimes, they just feel all over the place (like The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon and The Angels Take Manhattan).
    I thought The Angels Take Manhattan was brilliant

    Agree with you about TIA/DOTM though. And The Wedding of River Song. Sometimes I just don't know what is happening.


    That's what one my biggest problems is with Moffat's era. All the stories seem so fast and jump around, maybe I'm just slow but I find them really hard to keep up with.
 
 
 
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