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    (Original post by simontinsley)
    I find it quite amusing that the first time the party termed itself socialist in its constitution was exactly when it stopped being a socialist party (ie. when Blair took the reigns). The party (this whole post refers to the real life Labour Party) has started moving towards the left eg. getting back into bed with the unions (who didn't fund Labour under Blair's leadership - though I'm sure you know all this).

    Anyway, not really sure what I was trying to achieve with that ramble, I'll jog along now..
    Yeah I'm not entirely sure either, I've been a member since I was 18 and the party membership card has always had that particular descriptor. Of course, now they are no longer branded "New Labour" but simply Labour. That is a significant change in self-identity.
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    Anyone got a defense?
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle7127819.ece
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    (Original post by Indievertigo)
    Anyone got a defense?
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle7127819.ece
    Why should anyone on here have a defence? We're not responsible for actions taken by ministers - in the full knowledge of the civil service - anymore than you will be in 5 years time when your government has left stuff the incoming government disagrees with.
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    (Original post by Indievertigo)
    Anyone got a defense?
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle7127819.ece
    I know I'm not TSR Labour but what strikes me as weird about that article is that it is built on the premise that Labour knew it was going to lose. Yet it was actually quite a close run election. Also I think the idea that Labour pursued scorched earth on the UK economy just for the sake of dousing the Tory flame of popularity once they achieved government is a little bit far'fetched.

    And in terms of the details of spending: I'm pretty sure that everyone already knew about the aircraft carrier plans? And the money spent on schools was part of a phase by phase BSF programme so to attribute that to last minute spending plans is a bit silly.

    Having said that I'm sure there are huge areas of waste that can be attributed to Labour, I just think that the article is a bit too much spin...
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    (Original post by iwilson03)
    Having said that I'm sure there are huge areas of waste that can be attributed to Labour, I just think that the article is a bit too much spin...
    Define waste? I can think of a good deal of waste associated with the needless rebranding of the Department for Children, Schools, and Families into the Department for Education within days of taking office. Why spend money on new letterheads and all the rest, new leaflets and so on?
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    "And in terms of the details of spending: I'm pretty sure that everyone already knew about the aircraft carrier plans?"
    I'm definite they did - it affects portsmouth quite significantly and all the parties were talking about it around here

    (I haven't read the article yet so this could be something else i suppose?)
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    (Original post by Adorno)
    Define waste? I can think of a good deal of waste associated with the needless rebranding of the Department for Children, Schools, and Families into the Department for Education within days of taking office. Why spend money on new letterheads and all the rest, new leaflets and so on?
    Yeah that was pretty wasteful, although not on an epic scale..

    I think that ideas such as the ID card schemes are very wasteful, I'm sure there are more areas.

    I'd still vote Labour in my local constituency (Greens don't stand here), but they aren't perfect.

    And don't get me wrong, I'm sure we can all be confident that the condems will waste a lot as well. It's what comes with 'bright ideas' that are nought but PR and territory marking.
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    (Original post by paperclip)
    "And in terms of the details of spending: I'm pretty sure that everyone already knew about the aircraft carrier plans?"
    I'm definite they did - it affects portsmouth quite significantly and all the parties were talking about it around here

    (I haven't read the article yet so this could be something else i suppose?)
    Aye, its about aircraft tankers not carriers. Refuelling A330s I think though don't quote me on the aircraft. Just planes that can refuel other aircraft mid-flight, and most have a transport capability too.

    (Original post by iwilson03)
    Yeah that was pretty wasteful, although not on an epic scale..

    I think that ideas such as the ID card schemes are very wasteful, I'm sure there are more areas.

    I'd still vote Labour in my local constituency (Greens don't stand here), but they aren't perfect.

    And don't get me wrong, I'm sure we can all be confident that the condems will waste a lot as well. It's what comes with 'bright ideas' that are nought but PR and territory marking.
    Are you sure your a socialist?:confused: You're showing far too much concern for wastage for me to be convinced you are.:p:

    (Original post by Adorno)
    Why should anyone on here have a defence? We're not responsible for actions taken by ministers - in the full knowledge of the civil service - anymore than you will be in 5 years time when your government has left stuff the incoming government disagrees with.
    No reason why they should, but I assumed plenty would :tongue:

    (Original post by Adorno)
    Define waste? I can think of a good deal of waste associated with the needless rebranding of the Department for Children, Schools, and Families into the Department for Education within days of taking office. Why spend money on new letterheads and all the rest, new leaflets and so on?
    Come off it, how many needless and pointless rebranding efforts did the Labour party embark on. How many new departments did they create, how many new form-fillers did they employ. Nobody that supported all that has a foot to stand on regarding wastage. I mean come on, a department for families? Bureaucratic nonsense.
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    (Original post by Indievertigo)
    Are you sure your a socialist?:confused: You're showing far too much concern for wastage for me to be convinced you are.:p:

    Socialist =/= idiot
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    (Original post by Indievertigo)
    Come off it, how many needless and pointless rebranding efforts did the Labour party embark on. How many new departments did they create, how many new form-fillers did they employ. Nobody that supported all that has a foot to stand on regarding wastage. I mean come on, a department for families? Bureaucratic nonsense.
    It wasn't. It was the Department for Families, Schools, and Children. In any case, I've not actually put in writing the fact I supported the many rebrandings of various departments merely that, if you have an anti-waste agenda one of the first things you do is NOT rebrand and expend further money on said rebranding exercise. I made this argument in the federal bill when people moaned that Wales was being short changed by retaining the name Assembly so I am consistent on it.

    Moreover, I'm bemused that a party which stakes a claim to be the party of married couples and stable families finds the idea of a department of government to look after their interests "bureaucratic nonsense"!!! Be sure to remind us of that when single people are penalised again for not having children or spouses.
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    If whenever something damning comes out from one of the RL parties some is going to post it expecting the TSR party members to jump on the defence, makes me glad that I'm not a member of a RL party.
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    (Original post by Smack)
    If whenever something damning comes out from one of the RL parties some is going to post it expecting the TSR party members to jump on the defence, makes me glad that I'm not a member of a RL party.
    You're fairly opinionated ain't you.
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    (Original post by Indievertigo)
    You're fairly opinionated ain't you.
    Aren't we all here?
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    (Original post by Drogue)
    Aren't we all here?
    Aye, some are able to disguise it better than others though :tongue:
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    Frank Skinner is I heard.
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    (Original post by Indievertigo)
    You're fairly opinionated ain't you.
    Someone who is posting in a politics forum has opinions?! :eek3:

    With revelations in thought like that, shouldn't you be doing cutting edge research at Oxbridge or something?
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    (Original post by Smack)
    Someone who is posting in a politics forum has opinions?! :eek3:

    With revelations in thought like that, shouldn't you be doing cutting edge research at Oxbridge or something?
    Ah wait, that explains a lot. You're from Aberdeen.
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    No I'm not from Aberdeen.
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    If anyone from the Labour Party wants an apology for any of the things I said whilist a member of the party which offended/anonyied them or a restatment of my views on a matter please PM with the post/posts in question and I'll give you an apology/restatement of views.
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    Chill, man! It's fine.
 
 
 
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