Do you consider UKIP good or bad? Watch

Smonnie
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#821
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#821
UKIP is a joke of a party, designed to appeal to bigoted Daily Mail readers. Terrible policies, terrible people, terrible party.
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DIN-NARYU-FARORE
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#822
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#822
(Original post by democracyforum)
Do you think any country, out of the 28 countries, should leave the EU ? And why ?

answer the question
I did

No country should leave. Romania has given more than it has taken and so will the rest of the eastern bloc. Economics wise its a no brainer that we stay in the EU. Culture wise is a different topic. in light of immigration concerns there should be no more expansion
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DIN-NARYU-FARORE
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#823
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#823
(Original post by Reue)
Rubbish.
Time and time again its representatives have been caught out saying outlandish things. Farage recently said he would get rid of race laws . True not all members are racists, but they certainly have the capacity
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democracyforum
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#824
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#824
(Original post by DIN-NARYU-FARORE)
I did

No country should leave. Romania has given more than it has taken and so will the rest of the eastern bloc. Economics wise its a no brainer that we stay in the EU. Culture wise is a different topic. in light of immigration concerns there should be no more expansion
Where will the Eu be in 10 years ?

What about Southern Europe ?

Or do we just plod along on the same path ?

Will Cameron get his reform in the next 3 years ?

Are there any problems of the EU ?
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Reue
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#825
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#825
(Original post by DIN-NARYU-FARORE)
Farage recently said he would get rid of race laws
No he didn't. He said he would make it legal for an employer to prefer a british candidate over a non-british one.

This is not a new idea, infact our previous prime minister was saying the exact same thing: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...h-jobs-workers
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Reue
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#826
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#826
(Original post by Smonnie)
UKIP is a joke of a party, designed to appeal to bigoted Daily Mail readers. Terrible policies, terrible people, terrible party.
Which policies would you brand terrible?
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democracyforum
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#827
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#827
He said, discriminate based on nationality. Are you British ?

British jobs for British workers
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Smonnie
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#828
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(Original post by Reue)
Which policies would you brand terrible?
Withdrawal from EU (and therefore isolationism).

Hegemonic obsession with immigration. By this, I mean that when politicians fixate on 'immigration' putting strain on our NHS, or contributing to increased crime rates, or taking benefits, what we are really talking about is those separate issues (health, law and order, welfare) and using immigrants as an easy scapegoat. This is particularly ludicrous when it is considered that recent EU immigrants are net EU contributors.

I just, speaking as a liberal conservative, that they are a bigoted and thoroughly unimpressive party, led by an uncharismatic man, and that they should not play a role within the executive of our next government.
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geokinkladze
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#829
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#829
(Original post by Smonnie)
Hegemonic obsession with immigration. By this, I mean that when politicians fixate on 'immigration' putting strain on our NHS, or contributing to increased crime rates, or taking benefits, what we are really talking about is those separate issues
Struggling to understand who you are having a go at in the context you were critical of UKIP policies and now seem to be ranting at politicians in general?
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DIN-NARYU-FARORE
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#830
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#830
(Original post by democracyforum)
Where will the Eu be in 10 years ?

What about Southern Europe ?

Or do we just plod along on the same path ?

Will Cameron get his reform in the next 3 years ?

Are there any problems of the EU ?
Southern need reform not kicking out. The EU needs to have more powers to intrude and monitor countries that take the piss, but greek students are a great addition to the UK education system

Reforms? yes! restriction of benefits? ok! restriction of movement? No

Cameron wont get re-elected

Of course there are problems but it pays to be part of the 2nd biggest economic group in the world.
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Smonnie
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#831
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#831
(Original post by geokinkladze)
Struggling to understand who you are having a go at in the context you were critical of UKIP policies and now seem to be ranting at politicians in general?
I'm surprised that you're struggling.

Unless you seriously think that there is another political party that focuses more on immigration?

I'm not ranting at politicians - I am more intelligent than that, thank-you.
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DIN-NARYU-FARORE
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#832
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#832
(Original post by Reue)
No he didn't. He said he would make it legal for an employer to prefer a british candidate over a non-british one.

This is not a new idea, infact our previous prime minister was saying the exact same thing: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...h-jobs-workers
No he said he would get rid of race discrimination laws. 'Colour blind' is precisely what he said

Why cant you just accept its a racist party?
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Reue
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#833
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#833
(Original post by DIN-NARYU-FARORE)
No he said he would get rid of race discrimination laws. 'Colour blind' is precisely what he said

Why cant you just accept its a racist party?
And what is wrong with the term colour blind? He said it in the context that everyone should be colour blind to race and so it would make no difference what race someone was.

You're taking quotes, misinterpreting them or just misrepresenting the context.
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InnerTemple
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#834
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#834
(Original post by Reue)
And what is wrong with the term colour blind? He said it in the context that everyone should be colour blind to race and so it would make no difference what race someone was.

You're taking quotes, misinterpreting them or just misrepresenting the context.
Q: "Under UKIP would there be laws stopping discrimination based on race?"
A: "No."

Pretty clear to me.

Posted from TSR Mobile
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Reue
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#835
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#835
(Original post by InnerTemple)
Q: "Under UKIP would there be laws stopping discrimination based on race?"
A: "No."

Pretty clear to me.

Posted from TSR Mobile
Very clear, if that was what was said.. but it wasn't. As always the context is important.

Anyway; Farage has since explained his response as applying to employers looking to hire a British working over a foreign one.
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InnerTemple
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#836
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#836
(Original post by Reue)
Very clear, if that was what was said.. but it wasn't. As always the context is important.

Anyway; Farage has since explained his response as applying to employers looking to hire a British working over a foreign one.
Ok, let's see the exact quote:

Q: "So in UKIP Land there would be no law against nationality based on the grounds of nationality. Would there be a law against discrimination on the grounds of race or colour?"
A: No.

The question is quite clearly about race. The answer is just a clear.

Farage tried to backtrack. He said that he was talking about nationality and nothing else. That's quite clearly not the case.

Farage then seemed to support the views he expressed in the interview, saying that they actually gave a massive slap on the back for progress, so all was good.
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geokinkladze
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#837
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#837
(Original post by Smonnie)
Unless you seriously think that there is another political party that focuses more on immigration?
The conservatives?
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geokinkladze
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#838
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#838
(Original post by Smonnie)
This is particularly ludicrous when it is considered that recent EU immigrants are net EU contributors.
This may or may not be true, depending on what considers when calculating net contribution.

For argument's sake, consider it to be true, how does that help a local authority plan for school places?
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geokinkladze
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#839
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#839
(Original post by InnerTemple)
Ok, let's see the exact quote:

Q: "So in UKIP Land there would be no law against nationality based on the grounds of nationality. Would there be a law against discrimination on the grounds of race or colour?"
A: No.

The question is quite clearly about race. The answer is just a clear.

Farage tried to backtrack. He said that he was talking about nationality and nothing else. That's quite clearly not the case.

Farage then seemed to support the views he expressed in the interview, saying that they actually gave a massive slap on the back for progress, so all was good.
Ok lets try this:

Let's say in my land there wouldn't be laws criminalising canabis. Does that mean I want people to start smoking canabis? Am I now a drug dealer?

Farage's quote, part of a larger interview which we won't get to see, involved a discussion on the difference between nationality and race. Farage is critical on how the law can be used to prosecute people who discriminate based on race but not those who discriminate based on nationality. Farage's proposal is to abolish discrimination laws and let employers employ who they want.
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InnerTemple
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#840
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#840
(Original post by geokinkladze)
Ok lets try this:

Let's say in my land there wouldn't be laws criminalising canabis. Does that mean I want people to start smoking canabis? Am I now a drug dealer?
I'd say it means you are indifferent. You don't care if people smoke cannabis, but you certainly do not think they should be prosecuted.

(Original post by geokinkladze)
Farage's quote, part of a larger interview which we won't get to see, involved a discussion on the difference between nationality and race.
It was clear that the nationality point had already been addressed. The interviewer referred to Farage's stance on this in the question. The question was clearly about race, and race alone.

(Original post by geokinkladze)
Farage is critical on how the law can be used to prosecute people who discriminate based on race but not those who discriminate based on nationality.
If this is Farage's position, then he is clearly very confused and knows nothing on the subject. The law can be used to prosecute people who discriminate on the grounds of both race and nationality. See S.9(1) of the Equality Act 2010.

(Original post by geokinkladze)
Farage's proposal is to abolish discrimination laws and let employers employ who they want.
Ah - so now he does want to get rid of racial discrimination laws?

So first he says he wants to. Then he says he doesn't. Then his supporters and the man himself say that actually he was just referring to nationality. Then Farage comes close to supporting what he originally said. Then his supporters keep saying that Farage actually didn't mean race.

And now you are saying that actually he did mean race... in fact, he means anything someone can be discriminated on...

Interesting.
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