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    (Original post by SmashConcept)
    Uh he's supposed to be 300+ lbs. Guards and centers below 300 are outliers. Tackles below 300 basically don't exist, mostly because they need to be taller (Scherff is 6'5).



    Scherff is pretty good in pass pro. He might start at guard because he has characteristics there that make him very good, but he will probably be drafted high enough to where teams want to at least develop him at tackle, if not start him there immediately. I agree he won't get past 10. I'm not convinced he even gets past 5 (need a RT IIRC and his run blocking and size makes him ideal) or 6. (need a younger line in general and plug/play improvement at guard). Scherff has the upper body strength coming out to deal with defensive ends one on one, and he has good feet in general but not an amazing pass set. Adding that to his size, and teams will probably feel it's a waste to play him at guard his entire career.
    The point I was trying to make is that a physical toolset is perhaps more important on the interior of the line, whereas technique is much more of a factor at the tackle position, even on the right side. I'm just not sure he has the skill set to be a plug and play tackle straight away and, if you're drafting him in the top 10 for a position of need, you're more than likely expecting him to start.

    Draft him as a guard and you've got an elite talent from day 1 for the next 10 years or so. As a tackle, he's a project that's going to require some work.
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    (Original post by Scott129)
    The point I was trying to make is that a physical toolset is perhaps more important on the interior of the line, whereas technique is much more of a factor at the tackle position, even on the right side..
    That's a very simplistic way of looking at it, and I'm not sure if I agree. I would kind of list requirements like this (also very simplified)

    OT
    High priorities
    Length
    Footwork
    Upper body strength

    Lower priorities
    Game smarts
    Nastiness

    OG
    High priorities
    Lower body strength
    Smarts
    Nastiness

    Lower priorities
    Upper body strength
    Pure footwork
    Height

    Scherff looks like a guard because he's so nasty when he finishes blocks and he pulls very well. Apart from that he has the prototypical size to play tackle, needs to work somewhat on technique but which rookie doesn't? I think it's 50/50 where he starts, but I doubt whichever team picks him will expect him to play his career at guard.
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    (Original post by SmashConcept)
    That's a very simplistic way of looking at it, and I'm not sure if I agree. I would kind of list requirements like this (also very simplified)

    OT
    High priorities
    Length
    Footwork
    Upper body strength

    Lower priorities
    Game smarts
    Nastiness

    OG
    High priorities
    Lower body strength
    Smarts
    Nastiness

    Lower priorities
    Upper body strength
    Pure footwork
    Height

    Scherff looks like a guard because he's so nasty when he finishes blocks and he pulls very well. Apart from that he has the prototypical size to play tackle, needs to work somewhat on technique but which rookie doesn't? I think it's 50/50 where he starts, but I doubt whichever team picks him will expect him to play his career at guard.
    Well the only two of those factors that are intangibles are technique and smarts.

    Out of interest, why do you think guard requires more smarts than a tackle?
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    (Original post by Scott129)
    Well the only two of those factors that are intangibles are technique and smarts.

    Out of interest, why do you think guard requires more smarts than a tackle?
    I kind of regret posting that, because it's so simplified and leaves so many things out that it probably asks more than it answers. I don't like calling either of those things "intangible" because they can definitely be assessed on film.

    Guards need to be "smarter" for a couple of reasons. In pass protection it's pretty easy to figure out the tackle's assignment. It's just the widest man who is rushing the quarterback (unless there is a full slide of some sort). That doesn't mean it's easy - if the widest man is Von Miller or Dwight Freeney it's going to be a long night. But for guards, the tackles basically take on one guy and leave them to figure out everything else. Guards have to deal with delayed blitzes, because a delayed blitz round the outside just never gets there one time. In a man blocking scheme, literally any stunt will involve the guard's assignment somehow, but only T-E twists will change anything for the tackle. Run blocking is basically the same. For the sake of argument, forget about tight ends for a minute. Now 100% of combination blocks involve a guard, and only 50% involve a tackle. Every NFL team runs at least an inside zone variant, so there are plays where a guard's assignment will basically always be to combo block. Last and probably least, there are more plays where the guard pulls and has to block someone who lined up on the other side of the field (power O, not so much trap), whom he couldn't see from his stance. If the defense are in a predictable formation it's easier, but if they stunt or scrape or whatever it's a tough ask sometimes. It's not necessarily "smarts" so much as making quick adjustments more often than tackles, who play more on an island against one guy.

    My basic argument with Scherff is that from what little I've seen of him, he's being projected as a guard more because he has some very good guard attributes, rather than any particular weaknesses as a tackle. That means he's a fantastic value pick if he does indeed fall to a team that isn't needy for a tackle. I feel like he might be the first tackle off the board though. I think he's the most likely to make an immediate transition to the physicality of the NFL, because he's a beast.
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    If any of you guys follow other American sports you might wanna check out Espns streak for the cash game. Basically have a range of match ups you can choose between each day with the goal to get as many in a row right as possible.

    If anyone fancies giving it a go I can set up a little league to see who here can get the longest streak each month?
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    Bleurgh, I hate the offseason; we have to have complicated conversations like the one above in order to have anything to talk about, this draft is like mega-dull too because Winston goes 1 and from that point on we have no ****ing idea really. People are flying up and down boards based on pro days and all kinds of other stuff.

    DT I don't watch any other American sports, I have no idea how anyone follows basketball, there's like a bazillion fixtures, baseball is somewhat the same. I only popped on here now for a break from writing a really dull assignment, in the spring, I have no time for anything except English football and uni.
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    Rumours that the Bucs might take Mariota are quite interesting. Winston seems like a MASSIVE ****head, and QBs have a good track record lately when their only "weakness" is a spread offense.
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    Draft is two weeks tomorrow so now seems like the appropriate time to do my mock draft.

    1. Bucs - Jameis Winston
    2. TRADE - Browns - Marcus Mariota (for 2 1st round picks and next year's)
    3. Jags - Dante Fowler
    4. Raiders - Leonard Williams
    5. Redskins - Vic Beasley
    6. Jets - Shane Ray
    7. Bears - Kevin White
    8. Falcons - Bud Dupree
    9. Giants - Brandon Scherff
    10. Rams - Amari Cooper
    11. Vikings - Trae Waynes
    12. Titans - Danny Shelton
    13. Saints - Randy Gregory
    14. Dolphins - Devante Parker
    15. TRADE Cardinals - Todd Gurley (1st round + 2nd round pick)
    16. Texans - La'el Collins
    17. Chargers - Melvin Gordon
    18. Chiefs - Cameron Erving
    19. Titans - Breshad Perriman
    20. Eagles - Landon Collins
    21. Bengals - Arik Armstead
    22. Steelers - Kevin Johnson
    23. Lions - Malcolm Brown
    24. 49ers - Bernadrick McKinney
    25. Panthers - Andrus Peat
    26. Ravens - Jaelen Strong
    27. Cowboys - Eddie Goldman
    28. Broncos - Ereck Flowers
    29. Colts - D.J. Humphries
    30. Packers - Byron Jones
    31. Saints - Phillip Dorsett
    32. Patriots - Jordan Phillips

    I think quite a few teams may trade back up into the 1st round (from no.25 onwards) to take advantage of the O-linemen still there - in particular, the Rams (I hope).
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    (Original post by ..DT..)
    If any of you guys follow other American sports you might wanna check out Espns streak for the cash game. Basically have a range of match ups you can choose between each day with the goal to get as many in a row right as possible.

    If anyone fancies giving it a go I can set up a little league to see who here can get the longest streak each month?
    I'm good with my fantasy baseball team, thanks!!

    I have no idea what's going on or anything, but Bartolo Colon makes me smile. One of my best pitchers so far, and no one owns him. And he scored a RBI...Cleyton Kershaw and Antonio Rizzo have been some disappointments so far.

    The Hockey is about to get good though. Stanley Cup playoffs!

    I've also been following the IPL as much as I can...but can the NFL hurry up...
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    Aaron Hernandez gets life.
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    (Original post by Scott129)
    Draft is two weeks tomorrow so now seems like the appropriate time to do my mock draft.

    1. Bucs - Jameis Winston
    2. TRADE - Browns - Marcus Mariota (for 2 1st round picks and next year's)
    3. Jags - Dante Fowler
    4. Raiders - Leonard Williams
    5. Redskins - Vic Beasley
    6. Jets - Shane Ray
    7. Bears - Kevin White
    8. Falcons - Bud Dupree
    9. Giants - Brandon Scherff
    10. Rams - Amari Cooper
    11. Vikings - Trae Waynes
    12. Titans - Danny Shelton
    13. Saints - Randy Gregory
    14. Dolphins - Devante Parker
    15. TRADE Cardinals - Todd Gurley (1st round + 2nd round pick)
    16. Texans - La'el Collins
    17. Chargers - Melvin Gordon
    18. Chiefs - Cameron Erving
    19. Titans - Breshad Perriman
    20. Eagles - Landon Collins
    21. Bengals - Arik Armstead
    22. Steelers - Kevin Johnson
    23. Lions - Malcolm Brown
    24. 49ers - Bernadrick McKinney
    25. Panthers - Andrus Peat
    26. Ravens - Jaelen Strong
    27. Cowboys - Eddie Goldman
    28. Broncos - Ereck Flowers
    29. Colts - D.J. Humphries
    30. Packers - Byron Jones
    31. Saints - Phillip Dorsett
    32. Patriots - Jordan Phillips

    I think quite a few teams may trade back up into the 1st round (from no.25 onwards) to take advantage of the O-linemen still there - in particular, the Rams (I hope).

    I don't see Andrus Peat or Ereck Flowers falling that far. La'el Collins is a brilliant run blocking guard, but, unless he's being drafted as a RT (in which case Flowers represents better value), he can't play on the outside. If a team needs a LT, Peat is head and shoulders above him.

    Especially with a lot of teams needing o-line help. 49ers could well trade down, but they wouldn't do so with a divisional rival. Honestly, the Rams should pick up Andrus Peat, move Greg Robinson inside, where he would be an elite guard, not a middling LT -- or to RT.

    If Leonard Williams is available at #3, I don't think the Jags pass on him. He can play 3tech or 5tech, and the Jags use a lot of three man fronts. Of course, he'd be an elite tackle, even with the aquisition of Odick, the Jags are a little short, and have let go of a few DTs themselves.

    Jameis falls...one alledged rape case wasn't enough to dent his draft stock, but two should mean Tampa should pass on him, to get the best player in the draft at number 1. Nevertheless, if he's available...it's Ditto for Tennessee. Vic Beasley is Von Miller 2.0, and those numbers, and that college production make him an ideal fit in any team's 3-4 scheme. NYJ will probably pick a defensive player, and Shane Ray is one of the best in the draft, with an EXPLOSIVE first step. Andrus Peat is a day-one LT, and Washington needs to protect RG3 -- or whoever is playing QB -- better. Day-one LTs get picked early with good reason. Randy Gregory should fall, but I can see either Cleveland with the second pick, or Cincinnati picking him up.

    Round 1.
    1. Leonard Williams, DT, Tampa Bay
    2. Vic Beasley, EDGE, Tennessee
    3. Dante Fowler Jr., EDGE, Jacksonville
    4. Amari Cooper, WR, Oakland
    5. Andrus Peat, LT, Washington
    6. Shane Ray, EDGE, New York Jets
    7. Jameis Winston, QB, Chicago
    8. Marcus Mariota, QB, Factory of Sadness -- TRADE. FOS' #12, and #43 picks -- Mariota Tax -- for Atlanta's #8 pick.
    9. Ereck Flowers, RT, New York Giants
    10. Brandon Sherff, G, St. Louis
    11. Trae Waynes, CB, Minnesota
    12. Bud Dupree, EDGE, Atlanta
    13. Kevin White, WR, New Orleans
    14. Todd Gurley, RB, Miami
    15. La'el Collins, G/RT, Cincinnati -- TRADE. Cincinnati's #21 pick, #85 pick and future fourth round pick for Santa Clara's #15 pick
    16. Breshad Perriman, WR, Houston
    17. Melvin Gordon, RB, San Diego
    18. Jalen Collins, CB/S, Kansas City
    19. Danny Shelton, NT, Factory of Sadness
    20. Landon Collins, SS, Philadelphia
    21. Arik Armstead, DE, Santa Clara
    22. Eli Harold, EDGE, Pittsburgh
    23. Malcom Brown, DT, Detroit
    24. Bernadrick McKinney, ILB, Arizona
    25. TJ Clemmings, RT, Carolina
    26. Devante Parker, WR, Baltimore.
    27. Randy Gregory, EDGE, Dallas
    28. Brett Hundley, QB, Tampa Bay -- TRADE. Tampa Bay's #34 pick and #100 pick for Denver's #28 pick.
    29. Eddie Goldman, NT, Indianapolis
    30. Denzel Perryman, ILB, Green Bay
    31. Jordan Phillips, NT, New Orleans
    32. Marcus Peters, CB, New England

    Round 2.
    33. Jake Fisher, OT, Tennessee
    34. Cedric Ogbuehi, OT, Denver
    35. Owamagbe Odighizuwa, EDGE, Oakland
    36. Jay Ajayi, RB, Jacksonville
    37. Tevin Coleman, RB, NYJ
    38. Eric Rowe, S/CB, Washington
    39. Cameron Erving, OL, Chicago
    40. Mario Edwards Jr., DE, NYG
    41. Doral Green-Beckham, WR, St. Louis
    42. Eric Kendricks, OLB, Atlanta
    43. Ali Marpet, G, Atlanta
    44. Danielle Hunter, EDGE, New Orleans
    45. Jalean Strong, WR, Minnesota
    46. Phillip Dorsett, WR, Santa Clara
    47. Ronald Darby, CB, Miami
    48. Carl Davis, NT, San Diego
    49. Sammie Coates, WR, Kansas City
    50. Donovon Smith, G, Buffalo
    51. PJ Williams, CB, Houston
    52. Nelson Agohlor, WR, Philadelphia
    53. Maxx Williams, TE, Cincinnati
    54. David Johnson, RB, Detroit
    55. TJ Yeldon, RB, Arizona
    56. Jaquiski Tartt, SS, Pittsburgh
    57. Preston Smith, EDGE, Carolina
    58. Byron Jones, CB, Baltimore
    59. Marcus Hardison, DE, Denver
    60. Jeremy Langford, RB, Dallas
    61. Derron Smith, FS, Indianapolis.
    62. Xavier Cooper, DE, Green Bay
    63. Hroniss Grasu, C, Seattle
    64. Laken Tomlinson, G, New England

    Round 3.
    65. Ty Sambralio, OT, Tampa Bay
    66. Garrett Grayson, QB, Tennessee
    67. Buck Allen, RB, Jacksonville
    68. Michael Bennett, DT, Oakland
    69. Za'Darius Smith, EDGE, Washington
    70. Clive Walford, TE, NYJ
    71. Cody Prewitt, FS, Chicago
    72. Daryl Williams, G/RT, St. Louis
    73. Shaq Thompson, SS/OLB, Atlanta
    74. Ibrahiem Campbell, S, NYG
    75. Jesse James, TE, New Orleans
    76. Stephone Anthony, ILB, Minnesota
    77. Devin Smith, WR, Factory of Sadness
    78. Bryce Petty, QB, New Orleans
    79. Alex Carter, CB, Santa Clara
    80. Reese Dismukes, C, Kansas City
    81. Henry Anderson, DE, Buffalo
    82. Ameer Abdullah, RB, Houston
    83. Grady Jarrett, DE, San Diego
    84. John Miller, G, Philadelphia
    85. Phil Dawson, ILB, Santa Clara
    86. Quintin Rollins, CB, Arizona
    87. Doran Grant, CB, Pittsburgh
    88. AJ Cann, G, Detroit
    89. Duke Johnson, RB, Carolina
    90. Kurtis Drummond, S, Baltimore
    91. Jordan Hicks, OLB, Dallas
    92. Markus Golden, EDGE, Denver
    93. Cameron Artis-Payne, RB, Indianapolis
    94. Jeff Heuerman, TE, Green Bay
    95. Jacoby Glenn, CB, Seattle
    96. Ben Heeney, ILB, New England
    97.* Lorenzo Maudlin, EDGE, New England
    98.* Tre McBride, WR, Kansas City
    99.* Kwon Alexander, OLB, Cincinnati

    Round 4.
    100. Mitch Morse, G, Denver.
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    (Original post by jammy4041)
    x
    To be honest, there were a few picks that I really struggled with and that was one of them. I knew the Texans needed O-Line help so I just flipped a coin on which one

    That's a brave mock though, dude. I think it's pretty much a certainty right now that Winston goes number 1. Even Mariota, the only way he doesn't go number 2 overall is if no-one pays what the Titans are wanting. Cleveland are apparently really interested too and they certainly have the ammo for it.

    No way Peat goes top 10 either. Everything I've read and seen about him suggests mid-1st round at best. There are a lot of teams that do need a LT but I can't see them reaching that far for a player who's just not considered elite.
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    Is it actually confirmed there is a second accuser of Winston? When I read the NYT article, the main thing that stuck out at me was that if someone finds sex disturbing enough to seek counselling but stops short of calling it rape, then that's incredibly characteristic of it actually being rape. I'd be surprised if she pursues criminal charges after this long though, I think it's more likely that she testifies in the civil lawsuit that Winston will probably face and lose. Anyway, I would assign about a 95% probability that Winston has raped, 85% that he's raped more than one person and celebrated getting away with it by standing on a table and shouting "**** her right in the pussy." There is also a 99% probability that he's a serial thief who also should have been thrown out of a big game for contacting an official, and who thinks that being accused of rape is as bad as being raped. After all this, he tells Jon Gruden that the one thing that alerted him that there might be something wrong with his behaviour was missing a football game. His stats are underwhelming, he can't run and teams are just assuming they can fix his mechanics now that he's quit baseball. Mariota is sitting there looking like a healthy RG3, Winston is going to go first, and Bucs fans are happy about this because of his leadership and charisma. I'm not sure I can even watch this sport any more unless they at least play the Fins in pre season and Suh does us all a favour, replaces his face with a cleat and leaves him unemployed while the lawsuit rinses his signing bonus. WTF is going on seriously. Sorry for the rant.

    TL;DR I don't think I have ever hated an athlete as much as Winston.
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    (Original post by Scott129)
    To be honest, there were a few picks that I really struggled with and that was one of them. I knew the Texans needed O-Line help so I just flipped a coin on which one

    That's a brave mock though, dude. I think it's pretty much a certainty right now that Winston goes number 1. Even Mariota, the only way he doesn't go number 2 overall is if no-one pays what the Titans are wanting. Cleveland are apparently really interested too and they certainly have the ammo for it.

    No way Peat goes top 10 either. Everything I've read and seen about him suggests mid-1st round at best. There are a lot of teams that do need a LT but I can't see them reaching that far for a player who's just not considered elite.
    Andrus Peat could well go to the Giants or the Rams. If, the top,top edge rushers are gone, Washington should address one of their other biggest needs rather than reaching for Landon Collins. Peat to Washington may be a slight reach, but it's not the massive reach picking up Collins would be.

    With Peat, he's a player who could be a day-one, Franchise LT. They're pretty hard to find, and you can make a case that teams have taken inferior tackle prospects higher, simply out of need. Sure, you could make a case for Scherff being the first lineman selected, but he'd have less potential as a LT, then Peat. Peat is also a very polished prospect, with good footwork, and it'll show in the pros. He's probably one of the few tackles out of this class that will develop into a future pro-bowler.

    If I was Tampa, I'd be worried to take Mariota or Jameis first overall. Mariota because he's never played under center and hasn't called a play since high school, and Jameis because of all the allegations. There's no smoke without fire. One case wasn't enough, now other women are coming forward. Tampa Bay don't necessarily need Leonard Williams, but he's an absolute monster. Putting him next to McCoy...well...watch out NFL.

    Tennessee and NYJ seem pretty happy with their QBs. It could be a smokescreen, but Tennessee need a lot more than a QB, and it starts on defense.
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    TEBOW!!!! TEBOW!!! TEBOW!!!! TEBOW!!!! TEBOW!!! TEBOW!!!!

    I wish he was in Denver though. Oh, how much would he have learned learning from Peyton Manning...

    I'm so glad he's being another chance. He's improved his mechanics, is mobile, athletic and though. He has outstanding leadership qualities. He's a great kid. He's football-smart, being a great analyst on ESPN's SEC network, and I really believe he'll thrive in the Chip Kelly system.
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    1. Bucs - Jameis Winston
    2. Titans - Marcus Mariota
    3. Jags - Dante Fowler Jr.
    4. Raiders - Leonard Williams
    5. Redskins - Vic Beasley
    6. Jets - Shane Ray
    7. Bears - Amari Cooper
    8. Falcons - Bud Dupree
    9. Giants - Brandon Scherff
    10. Rams - Kevin White
    11. Vikings - Trae Waynes
    12. Browns - Devante Parker
    13. Saints - Arik Armstead
    14. Dolphins - Todd Gurley
    15. 49ers - Ronald Darby
    16. Texans - Jalen Collins
    17. Chargers - Danny Shelton
    18. Chiefs - DJ Humphries
    19. Browns - La'el Collins
    20. Eagles - Landon Collins
    21. Bengals - Malcolm Brown
    22. Steelers - Eli Harold
    23. Lions - Andrus Peat
    24. Cardinals - Melvin Gordon
    25. Panthers - T.J. Clemmings
    26. Ravens - Randy Gregory
    27. Cowboys - Eddie Goldman
    28. Broncos - Ereck Flowers
    29. Colts - Cedric Ogbuehi
    30. Packers - Michael Bennett
    31. Saints - Kevin Johnson
    32. Patriots - Jordan Phillips
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    Tebow talk is banned until he makes a first 75.
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    I listened to the most stupid NFL podcast. Dave Dameshek, Ike Taylor, Bucky Brooks and some other people.

    I will never get that 1hour and 15minutes back, and feel dumber for listening to it.

    1. Tampa Bay: Jameis Winston (they're making it out to be the obvious stone wall choice. I'm a fan of Famous Jameis, but the off-field stuff shouldn't make him the lock that all the drafniks think he is.)
    2. Tennessee: Danny Shelton (WHAT?! Shelton's good but come on, Leonard Williams has the potential to be 95% of the player that JJ Watt is, in the Titans 3-4, and they need all the help they can get...Ike Talor Picked that one)
    3. Jacksonville: Leonard Williams (obvious pick, after the Titans were so goddam stupid).
    4. Oakland: Amari Cooper (obvious pick)
    5. Washington: Vic Beasley (one that makes sense...great player.)
    6. NYJ: DJ Humphries (WHAT? Ahead of Scherff, Peat etc...oh...it's an Ike Taylor pick and he's gone all gooey eyed for the S.E.-freaking-C.
    7. Chicago: Kevin White (Ah, Chicago pick up the guy that Bucky Brooks says is going to fail.)
    8. Atlanta: Dante Fowler Jr. (One of the few picks that actually made too much sense...Bucky Brooks)
    9. NYG: Brandon Scherff. (can't argue with this one)
    10. St. Louis: Ereck Flowers. (again, can't argue.)
    11. Minnesota: Devante Parker (but...but...Trae Waynes is on the board...)
    12. Cleveland: Trae Waynes (The Browns need DL, QB, WR, but m'kay....)
    22. Pittsburgh: Jalen Collins (ah...Ike Taylor with the comparison to himself...)
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    (Original post by Wattsy)
    Tebow talk is banned until he makes a first 75.
    Oh...okay...

    I'll say this though. Leadership qualities, and determination if nothing else.
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    Dameshek is just a waste of life. God imagine it. Your life work is commenting on NFL related happenings and you literally know less about it than some random person who read the last 2 pages of this thread on a UK student forum. How would you even sleep at night? I was thinking about applying for a job the other day, but then I didn't because I realised I would have to tell people that most of my waking hours were spent welding on litter bins. No thanks. Still though, I'd take that over being a professional spacker any day, for any salary.

    I can't really be arsed to comment on the opinions of people who don't realise that Mariota has in fact declared for the draft, but the NYJ pick is quite interesting. I could see them ending up with Humphries, but I think they might trade down to get him. There is a good chance the best player available will be Cooper, who would be an awkward pick because it means a committee between him, Decker and Marshall on the outside. Another team might want him, and NYJ are not deep at WR, OL, OLB, RB. Adding an extra second rounder to spend on a wideout could do more for their team than picking one in the top 10 if it means they also upgrade at tackle.
 
 
 
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