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Petition calling for 2nd Referendum - and write to your MP watch

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    (Original post by Crb822)
    People shouldn't be changing their minds though. They should have only been voting if they knew thats what they really wanted.
    Yes indeed, people should never be able to change their minds in the light of new information. Like, oh, the NHS not getting the £350 million after all. Or Turkey not actually joining the EU tomorrow. Or Mark Carney having to put his hands in his pocket to find £250 Billion (that's Billion) to protect the markets...
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    (Original post by jneill)
    Yes indeed, people should never be able to change their minds in the light of new information. Like, oh, the NHS not getting the £350 million after all. Or Turkey not actually joining the EU tomorrow. Or Mark Carney having to put his hands in his pocket to find £250 Billion (that's Billion) to protect the markets...
    You mean like the millions who voted Blair into government because of the things he said he would do for education and the NHS but then went and took us into an illegal war with Iraq, killing 1000s on the back of lies about WMDs?

    Yeah, did we get a second vote on that one after being duped . . . . . ? Nope!
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    (Original post by Crb822)
    People shouldn't be changing their minds though. They should have only been voting if they knew thats what they really wanted.
    The validity of any election is dependent on the honesty of those in the running.

    The problem with a referendum is that no-one is responsible for the honesty of the claims made. No-one is in a position to truthfully say that money will be spent on this or this trade deal will be negotiated. We aren't voting for a politician, we're voting for an idea.

    With no-one held to account for the information given out by those generally seen as responsible and honest, we can be misled and lied to this far lesser consequence than any election.
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    (Original post by offhegoes)
    The validity of any election is dependent on the honesty of those in the running.

    The problem with a referendum is that no-one is responsible for the honesty of the claims made. No-one is in a position to truthfully say that money will be spent on this or this trade deal will be negotiated. We aren't voting for a politician, we're voting for an idea.

    With no-one held to account for the information given out by those generally seen as responsible and honest, we can be misled and lied to this far lesser consequence than any election.
    Good point, well made.

    And probably why Thatcher/Attlee were so against them.
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    (Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
    You mean like the millions who voted Blair into government because of the things he said he would do for education and the NHS but then went and took us into an illegal war with Iraq, killing 1000s on the back of lies about WMDs?

    Yeah, did we get a second vote on that one after being duped . . . . . ? Nope!
    Wot? The war in Iraq wasn't in the 2001 Labour manifesto simply because it hadn't happened. And he went on to win the next GE in 2005. So yes you did get a second vote... (actually it was a 3rd vote, he also won in 1997)
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    (Original post by jneill)
    Yes indeed, people should never be able to change their minds in the light of new information. Like, oh, the NHS not getting the £350 million after all. Or Turkey not actually joining the EU tomorrow. Or Mark Carney having to put his hands in his pocket to find £250 Billion (that's Billion) to protect the markets...
    It was pretty obvious that Turkey won't be joining the EU for a long time,
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    What an utter pile of rubbish. Clearly dislike democracy and just throwing the toys out of the pram!

    Shall we just keep having referendums until remain win?
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    (Original post by Crb822)
    It was pretty obvious that Turkey won't be joining the EU for a long time,
    It is obvious now. And that's what Remain were saying the whole time but in the face of posters like this it's unsurprising some people believed them. Some not all. And it just takes a few % of some people to make the difference when the vote is tight.

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    (Original post by adam9317)
    What an utter pile of rubbish. Clearly dislike democracy and just throwing the toys out of the pram!

    Shall we just keep having referendums until remain win?
    Remind me what Nigel said?
    Oh, and who created the petition in the first place?
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    (Original post by jneill)
    It is obvious now. And that's what Remain were saying the whole time but in the face of posters like this it's unsurprising some people believed them. Some not all. And it just takes a few % of some people to make the difference when the vote is tight.

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    There won't be a second referendum, quit wasting your time.
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    (Original post by jneill)
    It is obvious now. And that's what Remain were saying the whole time but in the face of posters like this it's unsurprising some people believed them. Some not all. And it just takes a few % of some people to make the difference when the vote is tight.

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    Don't get me wrong I wanted to remain. However I think people need to accept what is done is done. We can't bring this country forward by constantly changing our minds and being undemocratic.
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    (Original post by jneill)
    Remind me what Nigel said? Oh, and who created the petition in the first place?
    Nigel Farage does not = official leave campaign..nice tu quo fallacy
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    (Original post by jneill)
    Remind me what Nigel said?
    Oh, and who created the petition in the first place?
    At the end of the day, the people have spoken, and by a margin of 1.2 million people, the people of our country have voted to leave!
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    (Original post by AverageExcellence)
    Nigel Farage does not = official leave campaign..nice tu quo fallacy
    Doesn't matter if he's "official" or not. He is the reason why the referendum was called. He appeared on the ITV Debate, same as David Cameron. He is regarded as a key figure in the leave campaign by many in the electorate.
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    (Original post by adam9317)
    At the end of the day, the people have spoken, and by a margin of 1.2 million people, the people of our country have voted to leave!
    52:48 which funnily was also the margin that exercised your leader.

    And I don't doubt there won't be a 2nd Ref soon. I've said as much many times.

    It's just that others keep posting in here so I keep replying...
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    (Original post by jneill)
    Doesn't matter if he's "official" or not. He is the reason why the referendum was called. He appeared on the ITV Debate, same as David Cameron. He is regarded as a key figure in the leave campaign by many in the electorate.
    False, it was called because issues with the EU had become an issue, are you seriously suggesting the EU referendum is solely the work of farage bringing up the issue? by that logic Salmond is the main reason scotland had an Indyref and sturgeon is the likely cause of indyref2.. cry me a river with your misleading simplification.

    He wasn't even on the official leave and won't be on any of the official brexit negotiations.. to make out what he's said is some sort of precedent is a joke. Hence why you are in minority even among remainers.

    Anjem Choudary supported remain officially... do people draw parallels? ofc not.
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    (Original post by Manchester_123)
    Instead of attacking people, you should try having a go at the argument itself. You'll boost your ostensible intelligence.

    The petition was started BEFORE the vote because the person in question believed the vote was rigged. The very same person has asked for it to be taken down.

    You are a big boy or a big girl but big boy/girl did not do his/her research
    My point exactly. I have done my research thank you very much.

    The guy only stands by the petition if it benefits him. But now that his side won, he has distanced himself from it
    What you guys are saying is that either you want a 2nd referendum or you don't, regardless of who won it. Yet that's not what he did.
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    (Original post by jneill)
    52:48 which funnily was also the margin that exercised your leader.

    And I don't doubt there won't be a 2nd Ref soon. I've said as much many times.

    It's just that others keep posting in here so I keep replying...
    Had to read that a number of times to get the wording with negatives crossing out negatives

    In the event that there was a 2nd ref, however unlikely, we would see mass uprisings in the streets, and major discontent among the leave, greater in volume than those seen today in London
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    (Original post by AverageExcellence)
    False, it was called because issues with the EU had become an issue, are you seriously suggesting the EU referendum is solely the work of farage bringing up the issue? by that logic Salmond is the main reason scotland had an Indyref and sturgeon is the likely cause of indyref2.. cry me a river with your misleading simplification.

    He wasn't even on the official leave and won't be on any of the official brexit negotiations.. to make out what he's said is some sort of precedent is a joke. Hence why you are in minority even among remainers.

    Anjem Choudary supported remain officially... do people draw parallels? ofc not.
    There have been issues with the EU/UK relationship since we joined it. But specifically if Cameron and the senior members of the Conservative Party weren't worried about UKIP they wouldn't have included the EUref promise in the Tory manifesto. UKIP = Farage.

    And you can bet he (Farage) would have put a lot of pressure to call a 2nd Ref if Leave had narrowly lost.

    Again, if you believe in democracy why be afraid of giving democracy another referendum? c.f. Ireland.
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    I voted remain, campaigned for remain even. But the result is the result and I think we should go ahead and leave.

    Saying that however, as much as a referendum is a form of direct democracy and growing more important in UK politics, with at least 7 taking place between 1997 and 2016, another form of direct democracy is as powerful, and is as equally democratic and that is the protest. Protesting has not always been legal, going back hundreds of years, but the British are very good at it, and really it is protest which has formed the cornerstone of our society, being the force driving change in society, be it workers rights, female suffrage, equal pay and more.

    So while it is fair to say we should accept the democratic mandate of the referendum, people equally have a democratic right, a very fundamental and very British right to protest. And protest like a referendum is a pure form of democracy, it is direct democracy, as are petitions which are also being used.

    As such rather than just dismissing these people, calling them crybabies and undemocratic and to get over it, open diologue with them, don't belittle them but have a debate with them, these people are scared, they feel lost and betrayed and like someone has come and closed so many doors they could have gone through as they progressed though life. Progress is not made by standing above others pointing down and laughing but by engaging people on the same level.

    Many of those who voted to remain, such as myself, don't love the EU, many actually see very large flaws in the EU, but felt it was the best option to stay in, so they will understand the sovereignty arguments for example. We should want to welcome debate, not just pointing and blaming on both sides
 
 
 
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