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    (Original post by jam278)
    Gotta say Wenger is a don when it comes to selling players.

    Shame Sagna went for free though. But RVP for 24M, Nasri for 20 something million and both in the last years of their contracts. Clichy was the only guy who went for a fair price for the other party personally and then you had Gibbs who is younger and better. Clichy got dropped for Kolarov in the big games anyway.
    He's truly an excellent judge of a player and knows very well when a player is performing above his long term parity level. Still remember Anelka moving for £25m back in 1999, and that was mind boggling money back then, and then going out and getting Henry for £10m :laugh: My personal fav is Adebayor/Toure for £41m back in 2008 though, what a ludicrous deal that was FFS

    Flip side is that he's very picky when buying players, really resents overpaying when he can see very clearly what a player is actually worth himself.
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    (Original post by jam278)
    Gervinho sale is looking a bit funny now though.

    Just didn't fit the team.
    Reyes Mk II (for different reasons though)
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    (Original post by Zürich)
    He's truly an excellent judge of a player and knows very well when a player is performing above his long term parity level. Still remember Anelka moving for £25m back in 1999, and that was mind boggling money back then, and then going out and getting Henry for £10m :laugh: My personal fav is Adebayor/Toure for £41m back in 2008 though, what a ludicrous deal that was FFS

    Flip side is that he's very picky when buying players, really resents overpaying when he can see very clearly what a player is actually worth himself.
    Anelka paid for London Colney AND Henry...wtf
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    (Original post by Pete_91)
    Anelka paid for London Colney AND Henry...wtf
    Wenger probably made moves in the property market in anticipation of the housing bubble
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    Shame about Song really. Hleb Mk.2
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    (Original post by jam278)
    Gotta say Wenger is a don when it comes to selling players.

    Shame Sagna went for free though. But RVP for 24M, Nasri for 20 something million and both in the last years of their contracts. Clichy was the only guy who went for a fair price for the other party personally and then you had Gibbs who is younger and better. Clichy got dropped for Kolarov in the big games anyway.
    Clichy is definitely better than Gibbs, and I think it is Kolarov who gets dropped for big games generally, not Clichy.

    Spoiler:
    Show

    Everton away, Liverpool away, Arsenal away, United away, Barca home (not away) Chelsea cup (not home PL), Spurs away, not Liverpool home (rotation purposes, he started the other two games either side in an 8 day spell), Arsenal home, Spurs home, Chelsea home, subbed on for Everton at home

    http://www.espnfc.com/player/35099/g...hy?season=2013


    Nasri (>Cazorla) and van Persie (>>>Giroud) have both been integral to significant success at the clubs they moved to and have paid back their transfer fees easily - if Arsenal had kept them, they may have had more success. These shouldn't be seen as successes for Wenger. Especially seeing as Arsenal have no real need for money and there's a dearth of good, available players/mainly strikers.
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    (Original post by Bound 2)
    Clichy is definitely better than Gibbs, and I think it is Kolarov who gets dropped for big games generally, not Clichy.

    Spoiler:
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    Everton away, Liverpool away, Arsenal away, United away, Barca home (not away) Chelsea cup (not home PL), Spurs away, not Liverpool home (rotation purposes, he started the other two games either side in an 8 day spell), Arsenal home, Spurs home, Chelsea home, subbed on for Everton at home

    http://www.espnfc.com/player/35099/g...hy?season=2013


    Nasri (>Cazorla) and van Persie (>>>Giroud) have both been integral to significant success at the clubs they moved to and have paid back their transfer fees easily - if Arsenal had kept them, they may have had more success. These shouldn't be seen as successes for Wenger. Especially seeing as Arsenal have no real need for money and there's a dearth of good, available players/mainly strikers.
    Both players wanted to go with months left on their contract and we got £50m for the pair, that's making the very best of a bad situation. Wenger then went and got Cazorla for £12m so you dont need to be Del Boy to realise that he made some smashing deals. Giroud aint all that but for £9.6m?

    You telling me BVB dont regret not taking £25m for Lewandowski last summer right now? Absolute worst strategy is to let players leave for free, unless you're blinded by pride.
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    (Original post by Zürich)
    Both players wanted to go with months left on their contract and we got £50m for the pair, that's making the very best of a bad situation. Wenger then went and got Cazorla for £12m so you dont need to be Del Boy to realise that he made some smashing deals. Giroud aint all that but for £9.6m?

    You telling me BVB dont regret not taking £25m for Lewandowski last summer right now? Absolute worst strategy is to let players leave for free, unless you're blinded by pride.
    Spurs top it: sell your best player for a record transfer fee, build a new team, get told you'll finish 4th by just about every pundit and mug in the country, and finish 6th.
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    (Original post by Zürich)
    Both players wanted to go with months left on their contract and we got £50m for the pair, that's making the very best of a bad situation. Wenger then went and got Cazorla for £12m so you dont need to be Del Boy to realise that he made some smashing deals. Giroud aint all that but for £9.6m?

    You telling me BVB dont regret not taking £25m for Lewandowski last summer right now? Absolute worst strategy is to let players leave for free, unless you're blinded by pride.
    Well, for one, it's Wenger's fault that they wanted to leave in the first place. You got 44m for the pair, not 50, and Cazorla was 15-16 was he not? There's a 10m disparity already corrected.

    In any case, football is not about building a bank balance.

    A 20m player on the pitch is far better than 25m in the bank balance. No doubt they were good transfer fees but have they been replaced by players of 24m and 20m worth of quality? Nasri maybe, but Cazorla is still an inferior (only a little worse, they're on the same plane I guess) and less successful player, and van Persie has not been replaced properly at all. What's the point of a super rich club like Arsenal getting even more money if they can't use that money properly, what's the point of a 24m transfer fee if only 9.6m of it is going to be spent, that too on outright mediocrity?

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    Dortmund may or may not regret Lewandowski leaving - their season was unfortunately decimated and ultimately decided by a ridiculous injury list, one putting yours to shame. But they will not regret the message they sent out by keeping him, and that is that they're a serious club with serious intentions, and everyone (including potential transfer targets) sympathises with them because of Lewandowski's mercenary attitude and Gotze's buyout clause. No-one does so likewise for Arsenal, who have garnered a reputation for developing and then selling on their best players, just being a stepping stone whilst Klopp has gone toe to toe with Bayern. Reus, Germany's best young talent, chose them over Bayern (admittedly before the Lewandowski development).


    Selling van Persie and Nasri can not be seen as a success for Arsene given their roles in their new clubs' significant successes whilst Arsenal replace them with inferior players and continue to fail on the pitch compared to the bank balance. He got good (not incredible, just good) fees for them but he failed to use them properly, and that too at a club where there's plenty of money. This £160m hasn't accumulated overnight and there's no doubt that money could have been spent and Nasri/van Persie kept simultaneously.

    As for Wenger's overall transfer record, it's largely very good, not so much recently. The Anelka deal is amongst the best in the history of football.
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    (Original post by Bound 2)
    Well, for one, it's Wenger's fault that they wanted to leave in the first place. You got 44m for the pair, not 50, and Cazorla was 15-16 was he not? There's a 10m disparity already corrected.

    In any case, football is not about building a bank balance.

    A 20m player on the pitch is far better than 25m in the bank balance. No doubt they were good transfer fees but have they been replaced by players of 24m and 20m worth of quality? Nasri maybe, but Cazorla is still an inferior (only a little worse, they're on the same plane I guess) and less successful player, and van Persie has not been replaced properly at all. What's the point of a super rich club like Arsenal getting even more money if they can't use that money properly, what's the point of a 24m transfer fee if only 9.6m of it is going to be spent, that too on outright mediocrity?

    Spoiler:
    Show
    Dortmund may or may not regret Lewandowski leaving - their season was unfortunately decimated and ultimately decided by a ridiculous injury list, one putting yours to shame. But they will not regret the message they sent out by keeping him, and that is that they're a serious club with serious intentions, and everyone (including potential transfer targets) sympathises with them because of Lewandowski's mercenary attitude and Gotze's buyout clause. No-one does so likewise for Arsenal, who have garnered a reputation for developing and then selling on their best players, just being a stepping stone whilst Klopp has gone toe to toe with Bayern. Reus, Germany's best young talent, chose them over Bayern (admittedly before the Lewandowski development).


    Selling van Persie and Nasri can not be seen as a success for Arsene given their roles in their new clubs' significant successes whilst Arsenal replace them with inferior players and continue to fail on the pitch compared to the bank balance. He got good (not incredible, just good) fees for them but he failed to use them properly, and that too at a club where there's plenty of money. This £160m hasn't accumulated overnight and there's no doubt that money could have been spent and Nasri/van Persie kept simultaneously.

    As for Wenger's overall transfer record, it's largely very good, not so much recently. The Anelka deal is amongst the best in the history of football.
    Santi has been quoted at £13m-£16m depending on the source. And to be clear, Nasri left for £25m according to the BBC making it £49m total.

    You've got a point but Wenger's pragmatic attitude has seen us build up a silly amount of reserves, that money has not left the club and that officers an awful amount of security to the club. If Wenger decided tomorrow that he fancied a £100m player then we wouldnt even have to call the bank manager, it's just done. And only a very small number of clubs are in that position.

    Understand the point about football not being about having a big bank balance, but Wenger wont be here forever either. The next manager will probably spent more typically and he's going to think all his Christmases have arrived at once really. So the club does will inevitably benefit, unless we do a Spurs of course.

    wrt BVB; what does 'sending a message' even mean? To whom exactly? They're £25m light now and that's the bottom line. They've signed Immobile as a replacement, are you telling me that BVB are now in a better position to compete with Bayern? It was madness mate. People certainly pity their situation, but nobody is queuing up to join them. Moreover, because of the Lewandowski shambles, they couldnt afford a top player anyway. Also think it's clear that Arsenal can attract top level players, see Suarez, Ozil and Higuain last summer for instance and I dont see how being logical in our transfer dealings has affected that. Moreover, because of our sensibility, we can afford them too.
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    (Original post by Zürich)
    Santi has been quoted at £13m-£16m depending on the source. And to be clear, Nasri left for £25m according to the BBC making it £49m total.

    You've got a point but Wenger's pragmatic attitude has seen us build up a silly amount of reserves, that money has not left the club and that officers an awful amount of security to the club. If Wenger decided tomorrow that he fancied a £100m player then we wouldnt even have to call the bank manager, it's just done. And only a very small number of clubs are in that position.

    Understand the point about football not being about having a big bank balance, but Wenger wont be here forever either. The next manager will probably spent more typically and he's going to think all his Christmases have arrived at once really. So the club does will inevitably benefit, unless we do a Spurs of course.

    wrt BVB; what does 'sending a message' even mean? To whom exactly? They're £25m light now and that's the bottom line. They've signed Immobile as a replacement, are you telling me that BVB are now in a better position to compete with Bayern? It was madness mate. People certainly pity their situation, but nobody is queuing up to join them. Moreover, because of the Lewandowski shambles, they couldnt afford a top player anyway. Also think it's clear that Arsenal can attract top level players, see Suarez, Ozil and Higuain last summer for instance and I dont see how being logical in our transfer dealings has affected that. Moreover, because of our sensibility, we can afford them too.
    I get what you're saying and agree with it.

    One thing I wonder and Bound2 probably wonders, when will Wenger dip into the cash reserves properly? We're talking spending half or 3/4 of that budget. I don't see that happening under Wenger.
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    (Original post by jam278)
    I get what you're saying and agree with it.

    One thing I wonder and Bound2 probably wonders, when will Wenger dip into the cash reserves properly? We're talking spending half or 3/4 of that budget. I don't see that happening under Wenger.
    Never. Arsene Wenger is a fraud and some people out there are blinkered enough to believe everything he says. Arsene has no intention of going out there and start Ballin' Out like Waka Flacka Flame.

    We need 5 players and that doesn't even include the possibility of Santi or/and Vermaelen leaving. Do you honestly see AW buying 5-7 players?

    This summer will flop, I can sense it! Best course of action would be to expect nothing so you aren't disappointed!!




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    (Original post by Zürich)
    Santi has been quoted at £13m-£16m depending on the source. And to be clear, Nasri left for £25m according to the BBC making it £49m total.

    You've got a point but Wenger's pragmatic attitude has seen us build up a silly amount of reserves, that money has not left the club and that officers an awful amount of security to the club. If Wenger decided tomorrow that he fancied a £100m player then we wouldnt even have to call the bank manager, it's just done. And only a very small number of clubs are in that position.

    Understand the point about football not being about having a big bank balance, but Wenger wont be here forever either. The next manager will probably spent more typically and he's going to think all his Christmases have arrived at once really. So the club does will inevitably benefit, unless we do a Spurs of course.

    wrt BVB; what does 'sending a message' even mean? To whom exactly? They're £25m light now and that's the bottom line. They've signed Immobile as a replacement, are you telling me that BVB are now in a better position to compete with Bayern? It was madness mate. People certainly pity their situation, but nobody is queuing up to join them. Moreover, because of the Lewandowski shambles, they couldnt afford a top player anyway. Also think it's clear that Arsenal can attract top level players, see Suarez, Ozil and Higuain last summer for instance and I dont see how being logical in our transfer dealings has affected that. Moreover, because of our sensibility, we can afford them too.
    Okay, my bad, fair enough. Really surprised at the Nasri figures, maybe you can put that down as an 'incredible' deal instead of just a good one. Nasri's price seems to always be misquoted as 20m on TSR :confused:

    The 100m player point isn't valid at all - in building up these reserves, selling his best players and ensuring there's no success on the pitch, no 100m player would want to join the club anyway (it may apply to smaller blocks of 30-40m players but other clubs can afford them too). Obviously the money gives the club a lot of security but nearly every other club in the world is operating without 160m of security and surviving, it's hardly necessary and is not a plus point.

    'Unless the club does a Spurs' - like I said, a 20m player on the pitch is far better than 25m in the bank. Doing a Spurs is a real possibility for anyone spends large amounts of money in short spaces of time, regardless of who the man spending the money is. The cash reserves put a new manager in a good position - but cash is no longer the limiting factor for Arsenal. It's players willing to come to a club and a manager that has had little to no success for the last 10 years and has seen its best players jump ship to rivals. So Arsenal's bank balance means that a) cash is no longer the limiting factor, but b) they've foregone success on the pitch and now the issue is attracting players. The cash isn't a limiting factor for Arsenal's rivals either - they've got unlimited oil money and they've got more trophies and better players to attract new players with. And what's the point in saying this 'it's all our own hard earned money'; it's 'morally superior' (if that's even relevant, which it isn't) but it gives you no advantage on the pitch.

    Undoubtedly the cash in the bank is a major positive but it could have been accumulated without the sales of Nasri and van Persie too. Which is why their sales are not a success for Arsene, despite the great transfer fees.

    And who knows, van Persie is made to play on, Arsenal sign a great CM at the same time, Arsenal win trophies in van Persie's last season, he stays on, and you have one of the best strikers in the world still playing for you. Alternatively, van Persie still leaves but the trophy is still there, a Higuain or a Benzema or a Falcao or a Hazard feels more like a move to Arsenal.

    Don't want to respond to the Dortmund points right now because I feel it will distract from the discussion above.

    edit: it essentially boils down to a) yes, Wenger sold them for good transfer fees
    b) Arsenal have great cash reserves but they're not necessary in this day and age
    c) Arsenal have these cash reserves but they've accumulated at the cost of success on the pitch
    d) if Arsenal had more success on the pitch then they'd be more attractive to the best players in the world. For all these cash reserves they can't go out and buy a 100m player because he wouldn't want to join Arsenal
    e) van Persie and Nasri were sold for 49m - does a cash reserve of 111m really differ to that of 160m? Neither are going to be spent in a day. Is a cash reserve necessary at all?
    f) if they were both kept on for a season, then the chances of winning trophies would increase, leading to the chances of them staying, or Arsenal becoming more attractive for other players
    g) but they left, Arsenal were set back a year, and despite being able to afford any player in the world, they still can't attract them because they don't have the pulling power
    h) the pulling power is not there because Arsenal win nothing, at the expense of building up these unnecessary cash reserves
    i) Arsenal's rivals have both the cash and the pulling power
    j) Arsenal stay as also rans perpetually
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    I've been saying cavani isn't a big game player all along and isn't worth his asking price but people just went for the name I guess. That being said I don't understand why people wouldn't want balotelli.

    We haven't really replaced RVP in the sense that he could just pull out with a goal when needed or has it in him something which giroud can't do and someone like mandz can't do. In this sense doesn't the fact that balotelli actually performs in big games and can pull out with a goal from nothing warrant a move ?


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    (Original post by jam278)
    I get what you're saying and agree with it.

    One thing I wonder and Bound2 probably wonders, when will Wenger dip into the cash reserves properly? We're talking spending half or 3/4 of that budget. I don't see that happening under Wenger.
    That's not really his point though, one of his arguments was that if Wenger wants to use the reserves, he can, and if Wenger doesn't, it's still available and ready for a new manager.

    My issue isn't with the fact that Wenger is not using the reserves (although that too is an issue, but not the one at hand), it's with Wenger building up these reserves unnecessarily. In more detail in my reply to Zurich
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    (Original post by Bound 2)
    That's not really his point though, one of his arguments was that if Wenger wants to use the reserves, he can, and if Wenger doesn't, it's still available and ready for a new manager.

    My issue isn't with the fact that Wenger is not using the reserves (although that too is an issue, but not the one at hand), it's with Wenger building up these reserves unnecessarily. In more detail in my reply to Zurich
    I know that's not his point. I'm just wondering about it so asked him that question.

    I don't think it's unnecessary cash building. Surely if you're not building up the reserves, then you are spending it or just breaking even(which is still spending the reserves)? I don't think there's a problem with building the reserves but it shouldn't be to the detriment of the team anyway.

    Problem with Wenger is that he's an idealist and not a pragmatist.
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    Wenger is the type of guy that hoards spam and baked beans in his garage for a rainy day.
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    (Original post by jam278)
    I know that's not his point. I'm just wondering about it so asked him that question.

    I don't think it's unnecessary cash building. Surely if you're not building up the reserves, then you are spending it or just breaking even(which is still spending the reserves)? I don't think there's a problem with building the reserves but it shouldn't be to the detriment of the team anyway.

    Problem with Wenger is that he's an idealist and not a pragmatist.
    What's the point of building 160m of reserves as opposed to 111m? Is that not the stage where it becomes unnecessary? Arsenal are not short of money but they are short of good players; did they really need the extra 50m off van Persie and Nasri? For any normal club, great business, but for Arsenal? No. What's the point in 24m for van Persie if it means that your rival wins the title, and you only spend 9.6m on mediocrity? Especially given that the profit they are making year in year out means that their reserves will only get bigger and bigger even with reasonable spending.

    I tend to come across as an Arsenal hater on these boards, and I am one sort of, but there is also a lot more discussion to be had/people to have it with on this thread compared to others.
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    (Original post by Numan786)
    I've been saying cavani isn't a big game player all along and isn't worth his asking price but people just went for the name I guess. That being said I don't understand why people wouldn't want balotelli.

    We haven't really replaced RVP in the sense that he could just pull out with a goal when needed or has it in him something which giroud can't do and someone like mandz can't do. In this sense doesn't the fact that balotelli actually performs in big games and can pull out with a goal from nothing warrant a move ?


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    Balo is an interesting case. Milan fans would gladly sell him if they had a chance at Iturbe/ Lukaku / Mandzu. Why? Because Balo is luxury Milan don't need right now. He's not a system player at all, Balo needs a to be coached into someone who works for the greater good of the team.

    Seedorf was doing good work with him. He wasn't afraid to bench his ass if he played crap. Would Wenger do the same? I do feel Balo is starting to mature and get and better understanding of the game tho.

    If we do sign him, like any other player, there are risks but If he did come I fully expect our midfield and wingers to carry Balo.
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    (Original post by jam278)
    I get what you're saying and agree with it.

    One thing I wonder and Bound2 probably wonders, when will Wenger dip into the cash reserves properly? We're talking spending half or 3/4 of that budget. I don't see that happening under Wenger.
    True. I can see Wenger spending perhaps £80m net in one summer, and then not spending over £30m again for 2 years as he waited to see how the team developed.

    But as I say, I dont think Wenger even needs to spend £150m to get us up to scratch, just two £35m players and a new right back really. It is usually terrible business to spend over £100m at once, as Spurs showed, and also Man City over the years. And as I say, that money is still in the club bank account, to be used one day.
 
 
 
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