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"Shootings" reported in central Paris. watch

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    The worst part about this is that the usual suspects will come out of the woodwork and start ranting about how the French brought this on themselves.

    France didn't take part in the 2003 invasion of Iraq, it strenuously opposed it. France is not a supporter of Israel at the UN. Pretty much none of the traditional grievances against the US apply to France. The only basis on which this is rationalised is that France stepped in to help stop a Yezidi/Kurdish genocide.

    The apologists and sympathisers should be ashamed of themselves
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    (Original post by Josb)
    They knew they were going to die, so they probably didn't care to be identified. It's perhaps an honour for them to appear in the news.

    The Kouachi brothers also left an ID in their car in January.
    That's true, but if they wanted honour/glory, they would have some form of letter or video that gets leaked to the media, ISIS claimed responsibility for the attack but their press release was incredibly vague "we sent 8 brothers armed with explosive belts and assault rifles". Leaving an ID in your car makes more sense than an ID being found 'near' a body.

    (Original post by Hasan_Ahmed)
    No. By all means, criticise and discuss, that's how understanding is made. But 'these muslims are so violent that they even kill those within their own religion' is naive, and immature, demonstrating a lack of knowledge about whether different muslim ideologies exist in large numbers or not, including non violent forms, and perhaps a lack of willingness to gain that knowledge in order to help us progress.
    It's the same religion, with various strands, same as Protestantism, Orthodoxy, Catholicism etc all being part of Christianity. The fact is that you can't use "they kill more people in their own countries, and their own religion" as an argument against the religion being violent (especially since Sunni/Shia/Sufi strands are also all violent against each other). We can only progress via a mixture of destruction of pre-existing violent ideological institutions, and education to prevent future ones from growing.
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    UK / US / France bomb iraq, syria, palestine, libya killing hundreds of thousands of civilians-> NOT terrorism
    ISIS kills a couple people in paris -> terrorism
    white man goes on a rampage, shooting up a school or island -> NOT terrorism, just a crazy lone wolf
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    (Original post by MC booSack)
    UK / US / France bomb iraq, syria, palestine, libya killing hundreds of thousands of civilians-> NOT terrorism
    ISIS kills a couple people in paris -> terrorism
    white man goes on a rampage, shooting up a school or island -> NOT terrorism, just a crazy lone wolf
    :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by MC booSack)
    UK / US / France bomb iraq, syria, palestine, libya killing hundreds of thousands of civilians-> NOT terrorism
    ISIS kills a couple people in paris -> terrorism
    white man goes on a rampage, shooting up a school or island -> NOT terrorism, just a crazy lone wolf
    Lazy.

    If Iraq was to bomb England it would be war not terrorism. Its by a state.

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    (Original post by Arkasia)
    I hate Tottenham Hotspurs, and would never support them, but I know that other people would, and do. Just because you don't support ISIS doesn't mean no other Muslims would.



    What is your argument, that these Muslims are so violent they even kill those within their own religion? Good point, Poirot, totally deflects all criticism.



    I'm not going to get my tinfoil hat out, but it all seems a little too neat - if you're planning and carrying out a terrorist attack, why would you carry a passport with you?
    Isis are clearly not doing it in the name of their 'religion' though. The are killing their own fellow muslims. Wasn't the police officer killed in the Charlie Hebdo attacks a muslim? Wasn't the shop worker who hid customers a muslim? My point is these people are clearly insane or doing it for their own evil beliefs. I just don't get them. They kill women wearing hijab's yet they are doing this for islam? WTF
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    (Original post by Arkasia)
    That's true, but if they wanted honour/glory, they would have some form of letter or video that gets leaked to the media, ISIS claimed responsibility for the attack but their press release was incredibly vague "we sent 8 brothers armed with explosive belts and assault rifles". Leaving an ID in your car makes more sense than an ID being found 'near' a body.
    There will be videos, but it's too early.
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    (Original post by Scrappy-coco)
    Lazy.

    If Iraq was to bomb England it would be war not terrorism. Its by a state.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    If we look at the definition of terrorism:

    the unofficial or unauthorized use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims."the fight against terrorism"

    If Iraq was to bomb England it would still be an act of terrorism.
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    (Original post by yulebook)
    I just woke up to this after a late night last night... omg seriously scary. Something like this could happen in London with Pakis too...
    What?
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    (Original post by Scrappy-coco)
    Lazy.

    If Iraq was to bomb England it would be war not terrorism. Its by a state.

    Posted from TSR Mobile

    ???????

    (Original post by Valyrian)
    If we look at the definition of terrorism:

    the unofficial or unauthorized use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims."the fight against terrorism"

    If Iraq was to bomb England it would still be an act of terrorism.
    this ^
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    (Original post by Arkasia)
    It's the same religion, with various strands, same as Protestantism, Orthodoxy, Catholicism etc all being part of Christianity. The fact is that you can't use "they kill more people in their own countries, and their own religion" as an argument against the religion being violent (especially since Sunni/Shia/Sufi strands are also all violent against each other). We can only progress via a mixture of destruction of pre-existing violent ideological institutions, and education to prevent future ones from growing.
    Among the sunnis, only the deobandi, wahaabi and qutbist followings are violent to other muslim schools of thought. Among the shias, only the safavid influenced form is violent to other schools of thought. There are no modern sufi violent groups. To claim that as whole groups, 'shias, sunnis and sufis' are all violent to one another is fallacious. I do, however, agree with your final sentence - this has become my main mission in life. However, saying 'the religion is violent' is not conducive to using education to prevent future ones from growing - instead it turns off most muslims from the notions of progressivism and towards ideological resistance. Especially since there are many, including myself, who argue that originally islam was progressivist and humanist, and that false history was created over time to justify the injustices of 'islamic' leaders after Muhammad.
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    (Original post by xxvine)
    Isis are clearly not doing it in the name of their 'religion' though. The are killing their own fellow muslims. Wasn't the police officer killed in the Charlie Hebdo attacks a muslim? Wasn't the shop worker who hid customers a muslim? My point is these people are clearly insane or doing it for their own evil beliefs. I just don't get them. They kill women wearing hijab's yet they are doing this for islam? WTF
    They believe that the muslims they are killing are not true muslims. Study their ideology a bit, my friend.
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    (Original post by MC booSack)
    UK / US / France bomb iraq, syria, palestine, libya killing hundreds of thousands of civilians-> NOT terrorism
    ISIS kills a couple people in paris -> terrorism
    white man goes on a rampage, shooting up a school or island -> NOT terrorism, just a crazy lone wolf
    it wasnt a couple though...i don't know what you are trying to say?
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    (Original post by College_Dropout)
    Paris under siege, Daily Mail commenters seem to be more concerned with boarder controls in the comments section.
    Sorry but I absolutely love this comment.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    There will be videos, but it's too early.
    True, what happens over the next few weeks will be important, this could be US/Iraq all over again.
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    (Original post by woIfie)
    The worst part about this is that the usual suspects will come out of the woodwork and start ranting about how the French brought this on themselves.

    France didn't take part in the 2003 invasion of Iraq, it strenuously opposed it. France is not a supporter of Israel at the UN. Pretty much none of the traditional grievances against the US apply to France. The only basis on which this is rationalised is that France stepped in to help stop a Yezidi/Kurdish genocide.

    The apologists and sympathisers should be ashamed of themselves
    Arguably, ISIS might actually be secretly happy about the invasion of Iraq, since it used the disorder and discontent of, and following, that series of conflicts in Iraq in order to establish itself as an organisation. I think they attacked France because the issues surrounding the bombing in Syria and french involvement with the aid of kurds and yezidis is in direct relation to them, as opposed to the whole issues with israel and etc. I think ISIS is terrified of attacking israel or getting involved in that conflict, at this point.
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    (Original post by xxvine)
    Isis are clearly not doing it in the name of their 'religion' though. The are killing their own fellow muslims. Wasn't the police officer killed in the Charlie Hebdo attacks a muslim? Wasn't the shop worker who hid customers a muslim? My point is these people are clearly insane or doing it for their own evil beliefs. I just don't get them. They kill women wearing hijab's yet they are doing this for islam? WTF
    Wait a minute, you don't think they targeted muslims do you? The police officer was a target anymore than an innocent muslim happened to be on the train in 7/7 bombings.

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    (Original post by The Blue Axolotl)
    Just goes to show how pathetic and cowardly these "Jihadi" militants are.

    They speak of their hatred of the West, their policies and governments, yet instead of going for the heart (the government itself), they choose easy/soft targets.

    Hundreds of innocent human beings having dinner, drinking and watching football and a rock band.

    I'm in complete and utter shock. As someone who has a lot of affection for France, it truly sickens me.
    I wish they'd attacked a military compound and got obliterated.
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    (Original post by Valyrian)
    If we look at the definition of terrorism:

    the unofficial or unauthorized use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims."the fight against terrorism"

    If Iraq was to bomb England it would still be an act of terrorism.
    Except a bomb from Iraq would be officially authorised by them, as a sovereign country

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    (Original post by Josb)
    :rolleyes:
    i forgot to mention afghanistan - we left that country completely inhabitable. no outrage when we're the ones committing terrorism on a much larger scale. our actions in the middle-east cause ISIS to form and them fighting back was inevitable, but we continue to blame muslims instead of our governments. hmm..
 
 
 
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