The I-SOC (Islamic Society) XIII

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    Can someone shed some light onto the reason on why Muslim women continue to wear a burka when the following verse in the Quran (Al-Azhaab 33:59) states:

    "O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments. That is more suitable **that they will be known*** and not be abused. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful."

    With a burka, no one can Identify who you are. Surely this is going against the Quran in a sense?
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    (Original post by mercuryman)
    Can someone shed some light onto the reason on why Muslim women continue to wear a burka when the following verse in the Quran (Al-Azhaab 33:59) states:

    "O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments. That is more suitable **that they will be known*** and not be abused. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful."

    With a burka, no one can Identify who you are. Surely this is going against the Quran in a sense?
    I completely respect people's choice on wearing one but when they claim that it's in the Quran and use Islam to justify it...
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    (Original post by mercuryman)
    Can someone shed some light onto the reason on why Muslim women continue to wear a burka when the following verse in the Quran (Al-Azhaab 33:59) states:

    "O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments. That is more suitable **that they will be known*** and not be abused. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful."

    With a burka, no one can Identify who you are. Surely this is going against the Quran in a sense?
    This is just my lay interpretation, but perhaps it means that the women will be known by others to be Muslim/Mu'minaat and therefore not be abused, rather than being known and identified individually.
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    (Original post by Tpos)

    Alhamdulillah, I'm well. I graduated this week, so, officially no longer a student o.O (although my uni card does last until sept lol)
    Glad to hear you're all good

    My notifications still aren't working properly :/
    Congratulations!!
    May Allah always give you success and happiness and bless his mercy upon you. Ameen. Wa iyyaki.

    My notifs for quotes are still not working.
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    God describes himself in the Quran as: Allâh! Lâ ilâha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), Al-Hayyul-Qayyum (the Ever Living, the One Who sustains and protects all that exists). Neither slumber nor sleep overtakes Him. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. Who is he that can intercede with Him except with His Permission? He knows what happens to them (His creatures) in this world, and what will happen to them in the Hereafter. And they will never compass anything of His Knowledge except that which He wills. His Kursî extends over the heavens and the earth, and He feels no fatigue in guarding and preserving them. And He is the Most High, the Most Great. [This Verse 2:255 is called Ayat-ul-Kursî ]
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    Zamestaneh But the verse calls for the garmets to be 'suitable'. Surely a burka is a bit too extreme and not a suitable choice of clothing for women in Islam?

    the idea of abuse in that verse can be taken differently, no? Perhaps abuse from the non-believers that deem them as a 'threat'? (as evidenced by right wing extremists in Britain).
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    (Original post by s_ahmed2)
    Got my account back alhamdulillah

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    :woo::yay: Congrats! Assalamu Alaikum
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    (Original post by h333)
    :woo::yay: Congrats! Assalamu Alaikum
    Wa'alaikumu Salaam

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    (Original post by s_ahmed2)
    Got my account back alhamdulillah

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    Alhamdullilah brother! So glad to see you back
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    (Original post by Inve)
    Ma Sha Allah!! Congratulations. How does it feel? May Allah ta'ala grant you success
    (Original post by h333)
    Congratulations!!
    May Allah always give you success and happiness and bless his mercy upon you. Ameen. Wa iyyaki.

    My notifs for quotes are still not working.
    Ameen, jzk!
    It's been pretty emotional and bittersweet, I didn't want this phase of my life to end but graduation itself was a great day. It was wonderful to be able to celebrate with my family and friends. I'd been told by a number of people that graduation day/the ceremony is boring but I found it very enjoyable, and pretty hectic. Basically, the day was spent taking pictures. lool. But yh, I almost made it throughout the whole day without crying (the speech at the ceremony got me pretty close) but then my brother gave me a little speech which led to tears streaming down my face haha
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    (Original post by CorpusLuteum)
    Oh, right. Fabricated. As with a lot of hadiths etc because they are pretty darn old.
    With regards to hadiths, there is a science (ilm al rijal). There are also other elements one has to look at. What do we know about the tribes people belonged to ? What do we know about tribal fueds? Who fought who? Who had vested interests and allegiences? Do we see inconsistency? What was the political climate at the time (ummayads, abbasids etc).

    If i have fought wars against you, and decide to narrate something at your expense, am i really impartial here? (it's possible i am impartial, but it is possible i may not be).

    The reality of history, of all times, era's, prophets, kings, societies, is one of complexity.

    Be careful when someone says a hadith is 'authentic' or a hadith is 'hasan' or a hadith is 'weak'. Scholars sometimes differ on the gradings of a hadith in question. You have to ask - authentic according to who ? Weak according to who ? Fair according to who ?
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    (Original post by Tpos)
    xa
    MashAllah! Congratulations on graduating. What a milestone in your life, and i get your sentiments of feeling 'bittersweet'. I pray for your success in your future endevours, ialhiameen.
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    MashAllah! Congratulations on graduating. What a milestone in your life, and i get your sentiments of feeling 'bittersweet'. I pray for your success in your future endevours, ialhiameen.
    Thank you!
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    Alhamdullilah brother! So glad to see you back
    I'm glad to be back

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    (Original post by mercuryman)
    Zamestaneh But the verse calls for the garmets to be 'suitable'. Surely a burka is a bit too extreme and not a suitable choice of clothing for women in Islam?

    the idea of abuse in that verse can be taken differently, no? Perhaps abuse from the non-believers that deem them as a 'threat'? (as evidenced by right wing extremists in Britain).
    'Extreme' is subjective and not really relevant - indeed many of us are considered 'extreme' for simply believing in Islam and the Shariah of Allah, whereas we would simply say we are Muslim.
    If we wish to delve deeper into what is specifically meant by the verse, it is probably wiser that we go and see what muffasireen have said on this matter, because otherwise we will just be talking with conjecture.
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    'Extreme' is subjective and not really relevant - indeed many of us are considered 'extreme' for simply believing in Islam and the Shariah of Allah, whereas we would simply say we are Muslim.
    If we wish to delve deeper into what is specifically meant by the verse, it is probably wiser that we go and see what muffasireen have said on this matter, because otherwise we will just be talking with conjecture.
    Of course but many scholars have agreed upon the matter that full face covering(even just excluding eyes) is not even required in islam.

    Allah (swt) asks both men and women to lower their gaze, this suggests their faces are visible, otherwise there would be no sense in it.

    just a thought:

    Scholars holding this view also state that it is well accepted by all scholars that the Prophet (SAW) categorically forbade people from covering their faces or hands during hajj, the pilgrimage to Mecca. If it was necessary that the hands and face be covered at all times, he would not have stated its impermissibility during one of the most sacred points of a person's life.

    An interesting read from a BBC article:

    "Shaykh Nuh Keller, a Jordanian Shafi'i scholar and translator ofReliance of the Traveller, has put forward a similar argument for women in the West. He says that women should not wear niqab in the West because it can lead to harassment and act as a barrier to inviting people to Islam."
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    'Extreme' is subjective and not really relevant - indeed many of us are considered 'extreme' for simply believing in Islam and the Shariah of Allah, whereas we would simply say we are Muslim.
    This.
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    (Original post by mercuryman)
    An interesting read from a BBC article:

    "Shaykh Nuh Keller, a Jordanian Shafi'i scholar and translator ofReliance of the Traveller, has put forward a similar argument for women in the West. He says that women should not wear niqab in the West because it can lead to harassment and act as a barrier to inviting people to Islam."
    Well so could the hijab and other religious clothing.

    I don't agree with his reasoning.

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    (Original post by s_ahmed2)
    Got my account back alhamdulillah

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    That's great

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    (Original post by mercuryman)

    An interesting read from a BBC article:

    "Shaykh Nuh Keller, a Jordanian Shafi'i scholar and translator ofReliance of the Traveller, has put forward a similar argument for women in the West. He says that women should not wear niqab in the West because it can lead to harassment and act as a barrier to inviting people to Islam."
    I agree with this viewpoint. Not to say that women can't wear the niqab, but in an era of terrorism, the need to monitor the general public and heightened islamophobia, as it's not a requirement I don't see any good coming of it.
 
 
 
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