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    (Original post by TheLouisVuittonDon)
    Or a complete overhaul of the defence.. :facepalm2:
    Really? Clichy has been your only liability as far as the starting back 5 but scezszny has been impressive. Sagna consistent as usual and Djourou as one of your players of the season. Tv has been injured.
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    (Original post by Kevmeister)
    The group stage of the CL has a clear effect on the KO one; ie, if Arsenal won their group they wouldn't have had to played Barca so soon.....
    But play Barca none the less.
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    (Original post by Hoozo)
    But play Barca none the less.
    Not necessarily, depends on which side of the draw and so forth. My point was that it was in Arsenal's hands to an extent and they blew it, by coming second in their group. They should've known the possible consequences of such an occurence, and ensured they finished top, but alas they crumbled.
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    (Original post by MoMatrix)
    CL head to head games when it gets to the latter stages the games are 50/50 e.g Real vs Barca.Real are not more consistent than Barca as results have shown this season but can win head to head games over them e.g Copa del Rey tonight. The league Barcelona are ahead as they are the most consistent team over 38 games this is harder to win than a knockout competition.Luck is required in cup competitions remember Greece won Euro 2004.
    Yet you're saying the opposite?

    (Original post by Mastermind`)
    I agree that you need an ounce of luck (like a decision going your way in one or two of the matches that really influences the outcome) to win the CL but you also need to help yourself - like making sure you qualify first from your group so you don't meet a 'big' team early. It is very difficult though, in the KO stages every team has enough quality to cause the other team problems. More importantly, you need a good draw in for the QFs and SFs if you're relying on a bit of luck.



    Fulham 2-2 Man Utd
    Everton 3-3 Man Utd
    Man Utd 2-2 West Brom
    Birmingham 1-1 Man Utd

    Just some of the games we've thrown away leads, off the top of my ahead. So if we're using that logic you wouldn't really be ahead!
    It's the manner in which we've thrown the leads away though, ****ing up a 4-0 lead isn't the same as conceding a handball/offside combo in the last minute at St. Andrews.

    Another massive difference is making the home bankers count. As well as the **** ups in some of the games mentioned before we've dropped 3 points at home to 2 of the 3 newly promoted teams and dropped 2 points to Blackburn and Sunderland at times when both sides had extremely poor form, those account for another 10 points we really should have won.
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    (Original post by JK.)
    Yet you're saying the opposite?
    All cup competitions are easier to win than the Premier League whether it be Carling/FA cup or CL.Anyone on any given day can beat anyone to win the CL.The Premier League will always be won by the most consistent team this is harder to attain. Blackpool finished 6th in the Championship last season yet are in the Premier League such is the nature of head to head games.
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    (Original post by Kevmeister)
    Not necessarily, depends on which side of the draw and so forth. My point was that it was in Arsenal's hands to an extent and they blew it, by coming second in their group. They should've known the possible consequences of such an occurence, and ensured they finished top, but alas they crumbled.
    We didn't really crumble though, had we been given the clearest of penalties we'd have got a minimum of a draw but most likely gone on to win against a Braga side needing the 3 points but being dominated by us. That'd have made the difference. The only other slip up was a narrow loss away to Shakhtar, who until a couple of weeks ago had never lost a game at that stadium. Whilst a lot of this season has been defined by our own **** ups, I'd say our position in that group was more due to poor officiating. Though I guess Clichy's pissing about on the ball in that Shakhtar game doesn't do much to strengthen my point.
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    (Original post by JK.)
    It's the manner in which we've thrown the leads away though, ****ing up a 4-0 lead isn't the same as conceding a handball/offside combo in the last minute at St. Andrews.

    Another massive difference is making the home bankers count. As well as the **** ups in some of the games mentioned before we've dropped 3 points at home to 2 of the 3 newly promoted teams and dropped 2 points to Blackburn and Sunderland at times when both sides had extremely poor form, those account for another 10 points we really should have won.
    We haven't really ****ed up that much since our early season jitters. Dropping points away to Fulham and Everton is alright, but the manner in which we did was hard to stomach, especially the Everton game. It's probably scarred me for life, I can't relax now even if we're 3-0 up. West Brom game has been the only slip up at home so it's excusable and seems like a long time ago now. Yeah you should have won the home bankers, really surprised you managed to draw with Sunderland and Blackburn. Strangely, your away record is pretty good but it's not something you can depend on.
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    (Original post by Mastermind`)
    I agree that you need an ounce of luck (like a decision going your way in one or two of the matches that really influences the outcome) to win the CL but you also need to help yourself - like making sure you qualify first from your group so you don't meet a 'big' team early. It is very difficult though, in the KO stages every team has enough quality to cause the other team problems. More importantly, you need a good draw in for the QFs and SFs if you're relying on a bit of luck.



    Fulham 2-2 Man Utd
    Everton 3-3 Man Utd
    Man Utd 2-2 West Brom
    Birmingham 1-1 Man Utd

    Just some of the games we've thrown away leads, off the top of my ahead. So if we're using that logic you wouldn't really be ahead!
    You have a much better defense than us, would Man Utd have thrown away the leads we had, if you were 4 up against Newcastle you would probably win by 5 or 6. We have given away stupid leads in added on time and many 2 goal leads, you have mainly given away one goal leads.
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    (Original post by Mastermind`)
    We haven't really ****ed up that much since our early season jitters. Dropping points away to Fulham and Everton is alright, but the manner in which we did was hard to stomach, especially the Everton game. It's probably scarred me for life, I can't relax now even if we're 3-0 up. West Brom game has been the only slip up at home so it's excusable and seems like a long time ago now. Yeah you should have won the home bankers, really surprised you managed to draw with Sunderland and Blackburn. Strangely, your away record is pretty good but it's not something you can depend on.
    Man Utd probably have their worst team for a while and haven't been very good but they really haven't needed to be at their best.
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    (Original post by JK.)
    We didn't really crumble though, had we been given the clearest of penalties we'd have got a minimum of a draw but most likely gone on to win against a Braga side needing the 3 points but being dominated by us. That'd have made the difference. The only other slip up was a narrow loss away to Shakhtar, who until a couple of weeks ago had never lost a game at that stadium. Whilst a lot of this season has been defined by our own **** ups, I'd say our position in that group was more due to poor officiating. Though I guess Clichy's pissing about on the ball in that Shakhtar game doesn't do much to strengthen my point.
    My crumble dig was meant moreso in the fact that you were, rightly, clear favourites for the group, and also knew what needed to be done but failed to do the business. A team of Arsenal's stature should've topped that group, comfortably, but not with Wenger in charge, tbh. He rarely adapts to meet the requirements of the game, keeping faith with a system but expecting players to adapt - playing Bender on the wing being a case in point.

    Unfortunately for you Clichy is a Wengerite, and yes, it doesn't help your point. :dry:
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    It makes me sad a *******y thing like collective team defending cost us the title when pub teams can effectively do the same thing, with a big fat guy in the middle screaming at them. It makes me sad that this group of players are so so talented, and are better, man for man, than the united team, yet because of poor management and leadership they collectively fail to prove themselves. It makes me sad that I don't trust Wenger anymore. It makes me sad that these players deserve a trophy, yet aren't going to get one.
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    we need to accept that players like Park/Fletcher > Rosicky/Diaby/Densilson.
    sometimes its these players that makes the difference in a match

    im not sure about getting in this hazard guy, hes abit young, do we really need another one?
    we need experience.
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    (Original post by keira)
    It makes me sad a *******y thing like collective team defending cost us the title when pub teams can effectively do the same thing, with a big fat guy in the middle screaming at them. It makes me sad that this group of players are so so talented, and are better, man for man, than the united team, yet because of poor management and leadership they collectively fail to prove themselves. It makes me sad that I don't trust Wenger anymore. It makes me sad that these players deserve a trophy, yet aren't going to get one.
    Man for man? You're taking the ****ing piss. The only player from your back four that may get into the Utd team is Sagna.

    Nani > Walcott.

    VDS > Chesney.

    The only area you are in any way stronger is in central midfield. Our attacking options far outweigh yours.
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    (Original post by Kevmeister)
    Man for man? You're taking the ****ing piss. The only player from your back four that may get into the Utd team is Sagna.

    Nani > Walcott.

    VDS > Chesney.

    The only are you area in any way stronger is in central midfield. Our attacking options far outweigh yours.
    Fabregas, Nasri, Sagna, Wilshere, RVP.

    VDS, Evra, Vidic, Rio, Nani, Rooney.


    Pretty fair?
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    Today's result solidified a season of disappointment...and I expect a repeat to follow unless Wenger changes his attitude. His stubbornness in the transfer market and obsessive youth policy are becoming unbearable. We've got a captain who clearly doesn't want to be here and our squad lacks depth+maturity. Why didn't we replace Vieira or Henry? Why does the Arsenal board settle for mediocrity? How much longer do we give Wenger to deliver silverware because I've had enough of this ****
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    (Original post by In2deep)
    Fabregas, Nasri, Sagna, Wilshere, RVP.

    VDS, Evra, Vidic, Rio, Nani, Rooney.


    Pretty fair?
    This guy is probably the most overrated player in professional football.He is a decent player but people are already talking about him being a world beater there are players who are better than him who get nowhere near as much recognition e.g Sergio Canales.
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    (Original post by In2deep)
    Fabregas, Nasri, Sagna, Wilshere, RVP.

    VDS, Evra, Vidic, Rio, Nani, Rooney.


    Pretty fair?
    :yy:

    I still stand by my take that our attacking options are better, though. Berba has been a lot more effective than Chamakh.... then we have Chica.
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    (Original post by Mastermind`)
    We haven't really ****ed up that much since our early season jitters. Dropping points away to Fulham and Everton is alright, but the manner in which we did was hard to stomach, especially the Everton game. It's probably scarred me for life, I can't relax now even if we're 3-0 up. West Brom game has been the only slip up at home so it's excusable and seems like a long time ago now. Yeah you should have won the home bankers, really surprised you managed to draw with Sunderland and Blackburn. Strangely, your away record is pretty good but it's not something you can depend on.
    Yeh, the Everton one was a bit of an Arsenal style crumble but hey that's only one game, you might not be able to relax at 3-0 up, but you don't actively expect it to end a draw/loss.

    I don't really find it that strange myself, we have a great bunch of players, but the mentality of them is awful. The home results can be put down to complacency early on in the season, then a combination of complacency and the inability to bounce back from other results (i.e. Barca/Brum) more recently. To let the failure in one competition seemingly sap all your spirit and drive in another like that is just pointless and so frustrating to see. The good away form can also be explained by complacency, imo - home teams feel that they can have a go against us as we're away from the Emirates and risk playing a higher line (look at how stupid Blackpool were last week for example), our team recognise that away games are harder than home ones and so don't let complacency creep into their game (certainly not to the same extent) and both combine to make things a lot easier for us to take 3 points. If the complacency/inability to move on from results were the only problems we had with mentality it'd be worrying, but add to that the fact that we can't rely on any lead to be enough, no matter how late we take it and things really don't look good.

    We need more accountability enforced and we need proper leadership on the pitch. Both of these things come down to Wenger to sort, which, regardless of his stubbornness over things like style of play/transfer policy etc, you'd hope he'd recognise and actively try to fix, I just don't have faith that he will, though.
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    Had to work tonight so missed the game..but just seen football first on sky and must say even though it was pulsating why the **** cant we not hold a lead anymore...and why the **** do our players not throw their bodies on the line at every shot. 2 of spurs' goals today were as a result of one touch..or no touch for huddlestone then shoot..i only saw us do that twice today..one to produce nasri's goal and the other gomes saved.. yes we were looking really tired in the second half but its no excuse.. we were overran in midlfield by modric on his own ffs.. and someone please tell me why wenger brings on bendtner and playes him wide..and then we lump the ball upfield for rvp? how is that ever going to work ffs arsene... gah sometime u just want to bang his head against a brick wall, so his clouded mind can be free again..

    ah well 6years and more to come..
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    You're alive?.. :eek2:
 
 
 
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