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    There is no way you guys are getting Hazard, he's a £20m+ player. He'd be good no doubt but has too much of a reputation already, I can see Chelsea moving for him they need some youth, they can offer a higher transfer fee and higher wages.
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    Arsene Wenger hits out over 'twisted' Cesc Fabregas interview

    "The article bothers me," Wenger told reporters.

    "This was an article organised by the club with a check viewing of the article. Not only did the author not respect the agreement, but also he did twist completely the article and we are really upset about it.

    "It was not an attack on my philosophy.

    "That is not what he [Fabregas] said. He said completely the opposite."

    Fabregas wrote on Twitter: "Incredible that people try and twist everything to make headlines. Arsene Wenger has had a huge impact on me and my career. Great man."
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    (Original post by The Question)
    Hazard looks like a guy who knows how to play on the wing and torment a full back, we don't really have anyone like that atm someone who cant eally make a full backs life a living hell, and so most of our attacking play goes through the middle.
    That will be trained out of him, he'll be cutting in and trying non-existent passes within a few games.
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    (Original post by JK.)
    Yeh, the Everton one was a bit of an Arsenal style crumble but hey that's only one game, you might not be able to relax at 3-0 up, but you don't actively expect it to end a draw/loss.

    I don't really find it that strange myself, we have a great bunch of players, but the mentality of them is awful. The home results can be put down to complacency early on in the season, then a combination of complacency and the inability to bounce back from other results (i.e. Barca/Brum) more recently. To let the failure in one competition seemingly sap all your spirit and drive in another like that is just pointless and so frustrating to see. The good away form can also be explained by complacency, imo - home teams feel that they can have a go against us as we're away from the Emirates and risk playing a higher line (look at how stupid Blackpool were last week for example), our team recognise that away games are harder than home ones and so don't let complacency creep into their game (certainly not to the same extent) and both combine to make things a lot easier for us to take 3 points. If the complacency/inability to move on from results were the only problems we had with mentality it'd be worrying, but add to that the fact that we can't rely on any lead to be enough, no matter how late we take it and things really don't look good.

    We need more accountability enforced and we need proper leadership on the pitch. Both of these things come down to Wenger to sort, which, regardless of his stubbornness over things like style of play/transfer policy etc, you'd hope he'd recognise and actively try to fix, I just don't have faith that he will, though.
    I think mental toughness is where the problem lies. I mean Wenger can remind tell them not to get complacent and they'd still go out and squander leads, imo. I see mentality as also being a skill - a very underrated one. I feel a bit of an addict bringing this up but it's kind of like Football Manager, but mentality isn't as visible in real football (I think people simplify it). I think of the Arsenal team as having good technical and physical attributes but very low mentality (very rarely do they pull through when things start going wrong), but people take mentality for granted, as if a player has all the technical attributes in the world his mentality will also improve by just 'giving him a rollocking' or something like that. The mentality of the Arsenal players hasn't shown any sign of improving, the same thing happens each season.
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    (Original post by Mastermind`)
    I think mental toughness is where the problem lies. I mean Wenger can remind tell them not to get complacent and they'd still go out and squander leads, imo. I see mentality as also being a skill - a very underrated one. I feel a bit of an addict bringing this up but it's kind of like Football Manager, but mentality isn't as visible in real football (I think people simplify it). I think of the Arsenal team as having good technical and physical attributes but very low mentality (very rarely do they pull through when things start going wrong), but people take mentality for granted, as if a player has all the technical attributes in the world his mentality will also improve by just 'giving him a rollocking' or something like that. The mentality of the Arsenal players hasn't shown any sign of improving, the same thing happens each season.
    You're right. This hit the nail on the head. And it's wenger's inability to see this that is costing us time and time again. You're right it is a cliche but when players talk about the players of old, having that desire to put the ball into the back of the net and do everything physically possible to do it. Adams and Viera and Henry even, when winning was an addiction, that's what this arsenal team have to achieve.

    Winning has to become an addiction. They just need that first hit.
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    That Carling Cup loss may prove to be more costly than first thought.

    Winning breeds winners.

    Constantly getting close and then fallign away must start to play on peoples minds.
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    Ah well, season's pretty much over, I'm not expecting too much different next season, we'll see the same Arsene Knows Brigade boys saying that 2012-2013 will be the season when we go trophyless in 2012-2013.

    At least we'll lift the Emirates Cup :dontknow:

    Edit: And anyone who blames Szczesny for the draw should remember that he made key, key, key saves that Almunia and Fabianski would have never made. VDV was accurate with the first goal, VDV blocked Wojo's sight as the second was scored, and he had no choice for the third. Best keeper we've had in a long time.

    (Original post by Abiraleft)
    An actual reply would be nice.

    I don't really have any complaints because:

    (i) I didn't really have any title hopes after Liverpool, so I don't really see this as majorly affecting the outcome of our season.
    (ii) I thought the team looked greatly improved from their performance against Liverpool, particularly with regards to ball retention under pressure.
    (iii) We were actually shooting, and shooting well at that, which I found very encouraging.
    (iv) As far as I could see, none of the goals we conceded were because of major defensive bloopers or the like: van der Vaart's goal was very well executed, Huddlestone's was also well done as well as being practically impossible for Szczesny to see, and the penalty was both fair and an outcome of necessary actions (I think Szczesny was right to go for the ball, and only just missed it).
    (v) We could have scored 4 or 5, but we could have conceded 6 or 7.
    (vi) It was hard for me to feel too bad after a game like that. :dontknow:

    I've already explained why I think bringing on Bendtner and Arshavin was not a totally absurd thing to do, and also mentioned that I didn't think it was the best decision to make.
    I agree with most of what you've said, as usual, apart from the bolded points.

    About ii), I'd agree that we were slightly better in terms of ball retention and handling than what was shown on Sunday but it just wasn't up to part for a team vying for the league title - cases in point, Fabregas giving the ball away leading to Spurs' second goal, Diaby, and Song in some parts of the game, as well as Walcott wasting a golden opportunity around the 70th minute when he was in the box clear on goal and decided to just back off. There were fewer mistakes than the Pool game but the mistakes committed were still downright costly.

    About iv), I disagree. Wenger's idea of man-marking against Tottenham was pretty bad, considering how much Pavluychenko, VDV, and Huddlestone move around compared to players like Berbatov and Drogba who are rigid. It showed in the first goal when VDV had a clean run through goal with a midfielder (Diaby) having to mark him rather than the defence which was all over the place as he approached the goal. And then, as said above, Fabregas gave the ball away for Tottenham's second, if it can be considered a defensive error rather than booting it clear. As a defensive midfielder/centre-back myself, that looked like a pretty stupid choice to make to be frank.

    And yeah, it was good seeing a long-range shot coming through finally. Wengerball is always about passing the ball into the goal and that's meant players like Rosicky haven't been able to capitalize on their long-range shooting strengths.

    P.S. Do you actually live in Nepal or are you from there? Must have been a pain waking up at/staying up till around 2 to watch the game. :facepalm:

    (Original post by L18)
    That Carling Cup loss may prove to be more costly than first thought.

    Winning breeds winners.

    Constantly getting close and then fallign away must start to play on peoples minds.
    Heh, it's played on our minds ever since 2006 in Paris and all the final/semi-final failures since, along with the annual league chokes that begin in Feb.
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    (Original post by MoMatrix)
    CL is much easier to win than the league.
    Then why have you won more titles than CLs? It's the same at every club apart from Forest who only have 1 more.
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      (Original post by L18)
      Szczesny was at fault for Van Der Varts opener imo. His positioning was all over the shop, and left him with too much to do.
      Was it? It didn't look like that to me. Szczesny looked quite well placed - he was basically at the near post, wasn't he? He just seemed caught out by van der Vaart's timing (like Walcott's goal against Barca last season). The way I saw it, it was very well executed, and would have been difficult for most goalkeepers to stop.

      (Original post by The Question)
      He's a winger, something I think we need.
      From what I've seen of him (YouTube, mostly. And that Europa League game against Liverpool) he seems very similar to Nasri: he is very good technically, employs bursts of acceleration to great effect, and cuts in and shoots quite often. Which is to say, he doesn't really look like an orthodox winger to me - more like C. Ronaldo.

      (Original post by doggyfizzel)
      There is no way you guys are getting Hazard, he's a £20m+ player. He'd be good no doubt but has too much of a reputation already, I can see Chelsea moving for him they need some youth, they can offer a higher transfer fee and higher wages.
      We could afford him if Cesc leaves. And tbh, we could probably only accommodate him into the squad if Cesc leaves. I'd imagine it would be something like:

      Wilshere Song
      Walcott Nasri Hazard
      RVP

      He seemed very enthusiastic about Arsenal until about the turn of the year. Then he revealed he'd rather go to Spain. Which is why I'm not really sure we should go for him anyway.

      In any case, I'd agree with JK about not having an extra midfielder covering the defence; if Cesc does leave, I think I may prefer another holding/defensive midfielder to accompany Song, giving Wilshere more attacking freedom in the process, a la:

      NewCM Song
      Wilshere
      Walcott---------------------Nasri
      RVP

      A major reason for me preferring this model is because I feel Nasri operates better on the wing than in the centre: out wide, he can use his astonishingly deceptive pace to great effect - in the centre, he'd simply run into the other of two CBs, and would thus have to rely much more on his dribbling. Also, his tracking back is more useful on the flank than in the middle.
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      (Original post by Abiraleft)
      Was it? It didn't look like that to me. Szczesny looked quite well placed - he was basically at the near post, wasn't he? He just seemed caught out by van der Vaart's timing (like Walcott's goal against Barca last season). The way I saw it, it was very well executed, and would have been difficult for most goalkeepers to stop.
      Mmmmmm. I'm not convinced.

      Watching it in the pub, we all agreed he should of been another yard or two to his left.

      I'll have to watch it again, but from what I saw he didn't move with the ball.
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      I thought Szczesny did alright last night, anyone blaming him was listening too closely to Tyler's commentary on sky sports. He did come out twice to stop Bale, i think he got a bit over confident and thought he could beat Lennon to the ball. Gomes on the other hand, LOL! How many times did Nasri have the chance to bloody shoot even after he scored that goal. It's always if's and but's with us.
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      If you guys finish the league in 3rd place, I don't see how Wenger can justify not spending.
      Self-sustainability is great, but football is a sport first and a business second, if you don't achieve you're not really doing much, especially since the likes of Tottenham and Man City (especially) could overtake you in years to come.
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      (Original post by Lizzzle)
      If you guys finish the league in 3rd place, I don't see how Wenger can justify not spending.
      Self-sustainability is great, but football is a sport first and a business second, if you don't achieve you're not really doing much, especially since the likes of Tottenham and Man City (especially) could overtake you in years to come.
      Unfortunately you're wrong there. Football is a business first, sport second and has been for 20 years.
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      (Original post by Hantheman)
      Unfortunately you're wrong there. Football is a business first, sport second and has been for 20 years.
      Making a balance sheet your main priority wont get you far competitively. You need to win.
      Wenger needs to spend not massively or at once, but relying on inexperienced youth, is a massive risk and if it pays off is a stroke of genius. But when it doesn't you have to be able to switch your philosophy. Arsenal have a good team and play wonderful football, but at the moment that's all you've got to your name.
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      (Original post by Lizzzle)
      Making a balance sheet your main priority wont get you far competitively. You need to win.
      Wenger needs to spend not massively or at once, but relying on inexperienced youth, is a massive risk and if it pays off is a stroke of genius. But when it doesn't you have to be able to switch your philosophy. Arsenal have a good team and play wonderful football, but at the moment that's all you've got to your name.
      If you keep the shareholders happy, it doesn't matter what you win.
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        (Original post by rhinger)
        I agree with most of what you've said, as usual, apart from the bolded points.

        About ii), I'd agree that we were slightly better in terms of ball retention and handling than what was shown on Sunday but it just wasn't up to part for a team vying for the league title - cases in point, Fabregas giving the ball away leading to Spurs' second goal, Diaby, and Song in some parts of the game, as well as Walcott wasting a golden opportunity around the 70th minute when he was in the box clear on goal and decided to just back off. There were fewer mistakes than the Pool game but the mistakes committed were still downright costly.
        Well, my point was basically centred on the fact that Tottenham closed us down much more quickly than many other teams do; given that we lost the ball quite often when challenged in the Liverpool game (more so in the second half than the first), I'd have expected that to severely restrict our game. We also succumbed to this kind of pressure against Barca, and I seem to recall Everton playing against us in this style and to great effect at the Emirates last season. Thus, seeing us cope relatively well with high-pressure tactics seemed particularly encouraging to me. I mean, even Diaby was moving the ball quickly at many points. :eek: I think the impressiveness was also accentuated for me by the fact that we were playing away, and against a pretty good team.

        About iv), I disagree. Wenger's idea of man-marking against Tottenham was pretty bad, considering how much Pavluychenko, VDV, and Huddlestone move around compared to players like Berbatov and Drogba who are rigid. It showed in the first goal when VDV had a clean run through goal with a midfielder (Diaby) having to mark him rather than the defence which was all over the place as he approached the goal. And then, as said above, Fabregas gave the ball away for Tottenham's second, if it can be considered a defensive error rather than booting it clear. As a defensive midfielder/centre-back myself, that looked like a pretty stupid choice to make to be frank.
        Fair point, particularly about the first goal. :yy: I would point out, however, that man-marking seemed to work very well against certain players (Bale, in particular) and only really faltered when Spurs became adventurous enough to bomb forward from the back (in the opening stages, the only one that really caused problems due to the inattention of our players was Corluka; later, Gallas, Assou-Ekotto (sp) and Kaboul all caused problems because our players could not really handle all the mobility in addition to the players you mentioned). I'm not sure a zonal system would have been a whole lot better, tbh - don't you think that it would have been even more affected by the mobility of their players?

        Also, with regards to the second goal, I can't be sure but I think Cesc was trying to boot it away but sliced it. Which happens quite often under pressure, and usually ends up in a shot blazing miles over, or being shifted back to the flanks for another cross. I though it was an unusual attempt by Huddlestone - he kind of flicked it, didn't he? It was quite brilliant if he intended it to happen exactly the way it did.

        And yeah, it was good seeing a long-range shot coming through finally. Wengerball is always about passing the ball into the goal and that's meant players like Rosicky haven't been able to capitalize on their long-range shooting strengths.
        Well, as I see it, Wengerball is more about passing about until you find enough space to do otherwise. I posted a couple of days ago about how it might be that this could actually often be the cause of there being very little space to shoot - that perhaps our style forces rather than encourages the tendency to try and walk the ball into the net. I feel that this changed yesterday because Tottenham, being as they were at home, tried to press us quickly; consequently, whenever players like Nasri an Fabregas managed to get away from an opposing player, there was space to shoot.

        P.S. Do you actually live in Nepal or are you from there? Must have been a pain waking up at/staying up till around 2 to watch the game. :facepalm:
        Yeah, I live in Nepal. I don't really consider it a pain; it's just strangely fulfilling, you know? Even when Arsenal don't win; I don't know how exactly to explain it, but over the last month or so, it's begun to strike me how I can feel simultaneously frustrated/depressed and fulfilled/somehow satisfied after Arsenal games. And it wasn't too bad at all last night - like I said, I enjoyed the game.
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        (Original post by Abiraleft)
        We could afford him if Cesc leaves. And tbh, we could probably only accommodate him into the squad if Cesc leaves.
        Its not a case of afford, its whether Wenger is going to use the money he gets to pay over the odds for someone, once a player has a reputation they always cost more than they are really worth, the only time you get them for their true value is if they want to leave and are going to in the near future. Hazard is under contract until 2015, he is a good enough player you aren't going to get him at a knockdown price, especially when Chelsea and potentially Madrid even Barca may be intrested. I don't think its in Wenger's mentality to pay that much for someone, he would prefer to find the next Hazard and pay £4-5m for him.
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        Guys, could you explain to me how some of you have arrived at the conclusion that Chesney is the best thing since sliced bread?

        I'm truly perplexed.
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        (Original post by white_haired_wizard)
        Guys, could you explain to me how some of you have arrived at the conclusion that Chesney is the best thing since sliced bread?

        I'm truly perplexed.
        He is better than Almunia and Fabianski.
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          (Original post by doggyfizzel)
          Its not a case of afford, its whether Wenger is going to use the money he gets to pay over the odds for someone, once a player has a reputation they always cost more than they are really worth, the only time you get them for their true value is if they want to leave and are going to in the near future. Hazard is under contract until 2015, he is a good enough player you aren't going to get him at a knockdown price, especially when Chelsea and potentially Madrid even Barca may be intrested. I don't think its in Wenger's mentality to pay that much for someone, he would prefer to find the next Hazard and pay £4-5m for him.
          Hmm, that's a good point - Wenger is usually persistent about not paying above what he perceives a player is worth. I was assuming he would be willing to pay a fairly large sum to acquire Hazard because he's been so open about wanting the player at Arsenal, which is unusual for Wenger. Also, he has shelled out fair amounts when he thinks a player is worth it - Walcott, Nasri and Arshavin are the obvious examples. Hazard's price may be a little too inflated for him though, yeah (I think I could just about see Wenger bidding about 20 mil for him, and it looks like Hazard may cost quite a bit more than that).

          (Original post by white_haired_wizard)
          Guys, could you explain to me how some of you have arrived at the conclusion that Chesney is the best thing since sliced bread?

          I'm truly perplexed.
          We've had a massive goalkeeping problem for years now, and Szczesny looks to have the potential to solve that problem for years to come. Why, do you not think he's a very good keeper?
         
         
         
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