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    (Original post by digitalis)
    You've seen the light!
    That's not to say I think lectures are a good way to learn, though. I think they're dodgy too for the most part.

    The seminars that we've had in third year here have generally been excellent. I'm just not sure it's practical (unfortunately) to have the majority of the course structured that way.
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    (Original post by Kinkerz)
    That's not to say I think lectures are a good way to learn, though. I think they're dodgy too for the most part.

    The seminars that we've had in third year here have generally been excellent. I'm just not sure it's practical (unfortunately) to have the majority of the course structured that way.
    Unfortunately we don't have many seminars here which I think would be the best way to learn. I really miss the class room enviroment from sixth form. I learn SO much better from it.

    PBLs are better than lectures for me though, I learn literally nothing from lectures. There are only a few topics I don't think can be taught well through PBL (pain rings a bell). However, I think we should be given the tutor notes at the end of each module to ensure we can update our notes correctly.

    In the current scheme too much relies on the facilitator which is bad news for the student.
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    (Original post by Wangers)
    I would ask if you might be included as an author, otherwise you've done the donkey work for nowt.
    I'm listed on the poster as third author and I have an electronic copy of the poster.
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    (Original post by RollerBall)
    Unfortunately we don't have many seminars here which I think would be the best way to learn. I really miss the class room enviroment from sixth form. I learn SO much better from it.

    PBLs are better than lectures for me though, I learn literally nothing from lectures. There are only a few topics I don't think can be taught well through PBL (pain rings a bell). However, I think we should be given the tutor notes at the end of each module to ensure we can update our notes correctly.

    In the current scheme too much relies on the facilitator which is bad news for the student.
    So you don't get the tutor notes either? It's irritating. Almost as if they're scared of us actually knowing something! Shock horror.
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    (Original post by Becca-Sarah)
    I'm listed on the poster as third author and I have an electronic copy of the poster.
    "
    You must be the first named author on a poster presentation, but you do not need to have been present at the event where the poster was displayed."

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    (Original post by digitalis)
    "
    You must be the first named author on a poster presentation, but you do not need to have been present at the event where the poster was displayed."

    Bugger. Back to square one... Actually I'm not complaining, the data collection was like the best week of my life cos I got to scrub in on ortho stuff from dawn til dusk for six days So it's a bonus for the logbook if nothing else.
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    (Original post by Becca-Sarah)
    Bugger. Back to square one... Actually I'm not complaining, the data collection was like the best week of my life cos I got to scrub in on ortho stuff from dawn til dusk for six days So it's a bonus for the logbook if nothing else.
    I very nearly negged you for this..

    Someone revise finals for me. I can't be bothered.
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    From what I understand, posters you have to be first name authors, audits and research you just have to be an author. Is this right?
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    (Original post by Saffie)
    I very nearly negged you for this..

    Someone revise finals for me. I can't be bothered.
    LOL

    Saffie! Long time. How you doing? Revision blows.
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    (Original post by Saffie)
    I very nearly negged you for this..

    Someone revise finals for me. I can't be bothered.
    It was a long time ago and I haven't been near an operating theatre in over six months :angel:

    (Original post by xXxBaby-BooxXx)
    From what I understand, posters you have to be first name authors, audits and research you just have to be an author. Is this right?
    What are you putting on your poster if its not audit or research? :confused:
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    (Original post by Kinkerz)
    So you don't get the tutor notes either? It's irritating. Almost as if they're scared of us actually knowing something! Shock horror.
    Yeah, I might make a case for it to the SSLC. I don't see why we can't be given them at the end of the module.

    No doubt they don't want us passing them on to lower years. Yes, I can see their concerns but there has to be a line where they must put our education above their laziness and unwillingness to write up new scenarios.

    If a student doesn't want to do the PBLs properly and just read the notes, so be it. If they want to do them properly and reap the benefits then so be it.

    I don't see how they could argue that the risk of a student in the lower years getting the tutor notes is equal to the risk of a current year student missing chunks in their understanding because of a poor facilitator and the unwillingness to give out tutor notes.

    By all means, don't let us have them during the module. However, it is purely logical that we are given them when the module concludes in order to cement our understanding and ensure everything is covered.
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    (Original post by Saffie)
    I very nearly negged you for this..

    Someone revise finals for me. I can't be bothered.
    The fact i can now count the time to finals in weeks instead of months is something that should scare me if i wasnt in complete denial.
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    (Original post by Becca-Sarah)
    It was a long time ago and I haven't been near an operating theatre in over six months :angel:
    Should hope so!! Crazy girl..

    (Original post by digitalis)
    LOL

    Saffie! Long time. How you doing? Revision blows.
    Bored of final year.. bored of ward rounds, clinics, patients, revision... so yeah! You?
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    (Original post by fairy spangles)
    The fact i can now count the time to finals in weeks instead of months is something that should scare me if i wasnt in complete denial.
    Makes me joyful that the end of med school is in sight! Surreal....

    (Original post by Saffie)
    Should hope so!! Crazy girl..


    Bored of final year.. bored of ward rounds, clinics, patients, revision... so yeah! You?
    Ditto! So many ward rounds last week, so many patients...Well it was ditto up until today...anaesthetics week, tubed my first patient!
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    (Original post by digitalis)

    Ditto! So many ward rounds last week, so many patients...Well it was ditto up until today...anaesthetics week, tubed my first patient!
    I liked anaesthetics, it's good when patients are asleep and don't talk

    Rather glad it's a matter of weeks left cause I cba with being a med student much longer. Just give me a proper job and pay me already!
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    (Original post by Saffie)
    I liked anaesthetics, it's good when patients are asleep and don't talk

    Rather glad it's a matter of weeks left cause I cba with being a med student much longer. Just give me a proper job and pay me already!
    Word.
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    (Original post by Kinkerz)
    The group on facebook - 'You know you're a medical student when you...' - just posted it.


    I used to think it was a good way to learn and promoted a higher level of self-directed learning, which is important. Now I think it's so inconsistently done that the positives achieved by a good example of PBL are infrequent at best.
    Mate, I kinda see what you mean. PBL in its purest form should work. I just think we have really badly written and uninteresting cases, coupled with an overload of information in too short a time frame, which just renders the entire process almost pointless.

    Poorly written scenarios is the number one problem IMO - I had to facilitate a year 1 PBL session last week as part of this BSc and, yes its actually a very difficult job correctly facilitating a group, but half way through the session, the students literally went "Oh its IBS...lets just set objectives" (or words to that effect). There is no problem solving in such a case. There is no motivation to want to actually read up on the relevant issues. It just makes it seem like you're on a DIY course. It honestly takes the joy out of it - you literally go in and set bog standard objectives (pathophysiology, symptoms, diagnosis, treatment, management and maybe the psychosocial aspects if you're feeling keen).

    In second year, most of the PBLs have an accompanying lecture to help with the understanding etc, but I honestly think they really need to sit down and set much more stimulating problem scenarios if they really want to promote self directed learning and better problem solving skills etc that PBL in its purity claims to promote. I mean, PBL scenarios don't always have to be in the written form - there could be videos, audio tapes, pictures, etc. I just reckon its laziness on the most part.

    If there's one thing I've learnt from this BSc, it is that PBL theoretically should work. That said, the half hearted attempts at making it work in most places mean, sadly, they don't. I still think I get more out of them than lectures, but they could be so much more effective if people just took the time to create proper scenarios and not bombard us with more than one PBL a week. I'm not too worried about giving students the tutor notes and stuff - all the med school needs to do is stop setting exam questions that literally match the PBL tutor notes word for word and students will actually go about pbl the correct way and won't care about not seeing these rather condensed set of notes.
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    (Original post by Medicine Man)
    Mate, I kinda see what you mean. PBL in its purest form should work. I just think we have really badly written and uninteresting cases, coupled with an overload of information in too short a time frame, which just renders the entire process almost pointless.

    Poorly written scenarios is the number one problem IMO - I had to facilitate a year 1 PBL session last week as part of this BSc and, yes its actually a very difficult job correctly facilitating a group, but half way through the session, the students literally went "Oh its IBS...lets just set objectives" (or words to that effect). There is no problem solving in such a case. There is no motivation to want to actually read up on the relevant issues. It just makes it seem like you're on a DIY course. It honestly takes the joy out of it - you literally go in and set bog standard objectives (pathophysiology, symptoms, diagnosis, treatment, management and maybe the psychosocial aspects if you're feeling keen).

    In second year, most of the PBLs have an accompanying lecture to help with the understanding etc, but I honestly think they really need to sit down and set much more stimulating problem scenarios if they really want to promote self directed learning and better problem solving skills etc that PBL in its purity claims to promote. I mean, PBL scenarios don't always have to be in the written form - there could be videos, audio tapes, pictures, etc. I just reckon its laziness on the most part.

    If there's one thing I've learnt from this BSc, it is that PBL theoretically should work. That said, the half hearted attempts at making it work in most places mean, sadly, they don't. I still think I get more out of them than lectures, but they could be so much more effective if people just took the time to create proper scenarios and not bombard us with more than one PBL a week. I'm not too worried about giving students the tutor notes and stuff - all the med school needs to do is stop setting exam questions that literally match the PBL tutor notes word for word and students will actually go about pbl the correct way and won't care about not seeing these rather condensed set of notes.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Math
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    (Original post by RollerBall)
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    Yeah, I might make a case for it to the SSLC. I don't see why we can't be given them at the end of the module.

    No doubt they don't want us passing them on to lower years. Yes, I can see their concerns but there has to be a line where they must put our education above their laziness and unwillingness to write up new scenarios.

    If a student doesn't want to do the PBLs properly and just read the notes, so be it. If they want to do them properly and reap the benefits then so be it.

    I don't see how they could argue that the risk of a student in the lower years getting the tutor notes is equal to the risk of a current year student missing chunks in their understanding because of a poor facilitator and the unwillingness to give out tutor notes.

    By all means, don't let us have them during the module. However, it is purely logical that we are given them when the module concludes in order to cement our understanding and ensure everything is covered.
    I think the argument against releasing the notes here tends to be: the students won't engage with the sessions properly if they know that they'll just be given what they need to know at the end. But I think that says a lot more about the sessions than the students. This year there will be people going into the exam not just not knowing material, but never realising it was expected of them simply because of shoddy CBL sessions where tutors don't ensure that their students are aware of what should've been covered.


    (Original post by Medicine Man)
    Poorly written scenarios is the number one problem IMO - I had to facilitate a year 1 PBL session last week as part of this BSc and, yes its actually a very difficult job correctly facilitating a group, but half way through the session, the students literally went "Oh its IBS...lets just set objectives" (or words to that effect). There is no problem solving in such a case. There is no motivation to want to actually read up on the relevant issues. It just makes it seem like you're on a DIY course. It honestly takes the joy out of it - you literally go in and set bog standard objectives (pathophysiology, symptoms, diagnosis, treatment, management and maybe the psychosocial aspects if you're feeling keen).
    That's so true. Happened so often last year. "Oh, it's obviously diabetes..." cue people feeling bored and as though their time is wasted for the next hour.

    In second year, most of the PBLs have an accompanying lecture to help with the understanding etc, but I honestly think they really need to sit down and set much more stimulating problem scenarios if they really want to promote self directed learning and better problem solving skills etc that PBL in its purity claims to promote. I mean, PBL scenarios don't always have to be in the written form - there could be videos, audio tapes, pictures, etc. I just reckon its laziness on the most part.
    With the technology at our disposal in 2012, I'd say there should be other media brought in.

    If there's one thing I've learnt from this BSc, it is that PBL theoretically should work. That said, the half hearted attempts at making it work in most places mean, sadly, they don't. I still think I get more out of them than lectures, but they could be so much more effective if people just took the time to create proper scenarios and not bombard us with more than one PBL a week. I'm not too worried about giving students the tutor notes and stuff - all the med school needs to do is stop setting exam questions that literally match the PBL tutor notes word for word and students will actually go about pbl the correct way and won't care about not seeing these rather condensed set of notes.
    I partly think the problem is time. In PBL everything is so much slower. It takes more time to cover material. A PBL course needs to have another couple of years tagged on!
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    PBL.

    I loathed how it was done.
    That is why I almost failed the module of PBL

    It works when you have a great facilitator (we had in yr 2 and it made PBL bearable for me) but other than that bloody useless I find. Tutorials are better.
 
 
 
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