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    Anyway waiting for 419 to make an obscure comment, or for Zurich to pop up in the Chelsea thread making an inflammatory statement.
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    (Original post by PGtips)
    And in the last decade we have built a whole new modern stadium costing about £400m.
    The loan meant that we had to pay about £30m each year in interest alone, therefore resulting in the club having to make around that much in profit each year. It wasn't easy either, we had to sell off players who were important to the team and who were liked by the fans.

    It's quite an achievement that we've stayed in the top 4 for all these years while rebuilding the squad and losing good players, we've even challenged for the league on occasions but fell a bit short in the end. In the last 10 years, Utd, City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs, have all finished outside the top 4 at least once, showing how hard that task can be.
    Well done to Arsenal, when times came tough financially for Liverpool they spent a 3 year absence in the CL e.g.

    I disagree on top 4 being an achievement until about 2010. Until 2009 it was clear that there were 4 teams for 4 spots, then it became 6 teams for 4 spots. Now it's 5 teams for 4 spots now. Possibly 6 if Pochettino can get Spurs clicking.
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    (Original post by jam278)
    I'm not actually biased against Arsenal though. I even congratulated you for winning the FA cup but is the FA cup really enough for a club like Arsenal? You're obviously going to try and build on that but it's a start or means to an end and that's it.

    For me, the FA cup is now a stepping stone trophy for the big clubs or an attempt at some glory for the ****ter teams in the division. Financially it means nothing as well in comparison to qualifying for CL, finishing 4th and winning FA cup is a decent season anyway and that's it. If you put together a good CL run too(semis) or won Europa then could say that you had a good season.

    However I repeat, I am not biased against Arsenal, I am a fan of football. It's why I watch the world cup besides not even liking the whole process.
    Loads of people hide behind the 'fan of football' argument. Maybe you are more subtle than other people but you are still clearly pushing an agenda.

    You can downplay it all you like but given the recent history of Arsenal FC, winning the FA cup has to be seen as a successful season. Whether we actually make progress from here is a different matter entirely.
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    (Original post by De Chirico)
    Loads of people hide behind the 'fan of football' argument. Maybe you are more subtle than other people but you are still clearly pushing an agenda.

    You can downplay it all you like but given the recent history of Arsenal FC, winning the FA cup has to be seen as a successful season. Whether we actually make progress from here is a different matter entirely.
    Way I see it, sorry if it may sound bias as I do not want to be biased, but winning the FA cup to me is like beating your mate 1-0 on FIFA after he's beaten you 6-7 times in a row with ease. What you do next ofc is beat him some more and start thrashing him. That's what I feel Arsenal should do. Win some more FA cups, win bigger trophies.
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    (Original post by jam278)
    Aka, you're agreeing with me but you're still trying to make an argument over valid points.

    I apologise for the dig but it was just pathetic showing a picture of Wenger winning 1 FA cup in a trophy barren 9 years as a response to somebody saying that Wenger doesn't win much nowadays.

    Again I've said well done for winning the trophy, but it's a means to an end, a stepping stone, like how City won the FA cup in 2011 e.g. and won the league the next year.
    The actual quote was 'not like wenger to ever focus on winning things is it'. To make that statement about a manager who has won plenty of trophies makes it plain wrong. Let alone saying it a month after Wenger won the FA cup.
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    (Original post by De Chirico)
    The actual quote was 'not like wenger to ever focus on winning things is it'. To make that statement about a manager who has won plenty of trophies makes it plain wrong. Let alone saying it a month after Wenger won the FA cup.
    In the context he's saying, he's using the recent past, like with Brian Clough, people would be talking about the barren spell from 1980-92 and not the 2 ECs he won with them if they were talking about his failures.

    If Wenger retired today everybody would be talking about the unbeaten season rather than the 9 years without a trophy though. People look at this with nostalgia.
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    (Original post by jam278)
    Way I see it, sorry if it may sound bias as I do not want to be biased, but winning the FA cup to me is like beating your mate 1-0 on FIFA after he's beaten you 6-7 times in a row with ease. What you do next ofc is beat him some more and start thrashing him. That's what I feel Arsenal should do. Win some more FA cups, win bigger trophies.
    In what way is it like playing FIFA? I could just say that Chelsea's recent successes are like playing Football Manager with infinite transfer budget. You can keep on making silly analogies if you like, it adds nothing to your argument.

    Yes we all want to go on and win more trophies but in the context of the season just gone, winning the FA Cup is a big success for the club. If we had bottled the final, which we nearly did, the criticism would have been intense. Therefore to downplay the club's achievement in winning it is blatant double standards.
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    (Original post by De Chirico)
    In what way is it like playing FIFA? I could just say that Chelsea's recent successes are like playing Football Manager with infinite transfer budget. You can keep on making silly analogies if you like, it adds nothing to your argument.

    Yes we all want to go on and win more trophies but in the context of the season just gone, winning the FA Cup is a big success for the club. If we had bottled the final, which we nearly did, the criticism would have been intense. Therefore to downplay the club's achievement in winning it is blatant double standards.
    Yes, it was currently easier for Chelsea to win trophies than Arsenal and I would have agreed with your analogy were it not currently for FFP. It means that we have to actually be responsible financially, you have the likes of Zurich/Emperor Mustard saying that hard times will come for us now, so we'll see how that works.

    In context of the season just gone, you bottled a healthy 5 or so point lead to nearly missing out on CL qualification and while the route to the final was tough, struggled to beat Wigan over 120mins(yes they beat City but it's still Wigan) and were about to pull off a feat even less manageable than the league cup in 2011. City did the same thing too I guess.
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    (Original post by jam278)
    Yes, it was currently easier for Chelsea to win trophies than Arsenal and I would have agreed with your analogy were it not currently for FFP. It means that we have to actually be responsible financially, you have the likes of Zurich/Emperor Mustard saying that hard times will come for us now, so we'll see how that works.

    In context of the season just gone, you bottled a healthy 5 or so point lead to nearly missing out on CL qualification and while the route to the final was tough, struggled to beat Wigan over 120mins(yes they beat City but it's still Wigan) and were about to pull off a feat even less manageable than the league cup in 2011. City did the same thing too I guess.
    We struggled against Wigan, sure. You rarely see a team win a trophy without struggling and getting away with playing poorly at some point along the way. The way we bottled it in the league was disappointing but looking at the overall picture, finishing 7 points behind the leaders isn't that bad.

    It's obvious Wenger is still building the team after years of financial constraints so finishing the league 6 points higher than 2012/13 and winning a cup is surely a successful season.
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    (Original post by De Chirico)
    We struggled against Wigan, sure. You rarely see a team win a trophy without struggling and getting away with playing poorly at some point along the way. The way we bottled it in the league was disappointing but looking at the overall picture, finishing 7 points behind the leaders isn't that bad.

    It's obvious Wenger is still building the team after years of financial constraints so finishing the league 6 points higher than 2012/13 and winning a cup is surely a successful season.
    It's successful, but doesn't make it a good season. Success can be relative, would you say that Chelsea winning the europa league with the strongest team by far and gaining 9 points in 2012-13 was a good season, even if it was clearly a successful season?
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    (Original post by jam278)
    It's successful, but doesn't make it a good season. Success can be relative, would you say that Chelsea winning the europa league with the strongest team by far and gaining 9 points in 2012-13 was a good season, even if it was clearly a successful season?
    I agree that success is relative. I think you're judging Arsenal by too high a standard for where the team actually is at the moment.
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    (Original post by De Chirico)
    I agree that success is relative. I think you're judging Arsenal by too high a standard for where the team actually is at the moment.
    Maybe so. I felt that the team needed another season.

    Personally the first 11 is fine for the most part, there's 2 main weaknesses, 3 now with Sagna leaving.
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    American boy, what does a liverpool fan knows about a champions sound? Weird :confused:

    Not even going to bother with jam trying hard to push his agenda, I'm too focused on making it rain these days.
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    (Original post by jam278)
    It's clearly a harder competition to win, there is not a single team with less league titles than CL wins too.
    Nottingham Forest.
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    (Original post by sr90)
    Nottingham Forest.
    Champions league, not european cup.
    (Original post by 419)
    American boy, what does a liverpool fan knows about a champions sound? Weird :confused:

    Not even going to bother with jam trying hard to push his agenda, I'm too focused on making it rain these days.
    I have no agenda. I am a fan of football before a fan of my club.
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    (Original post by jam278)
    Champions league, not european cup.
    They're the same thing.
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    Well its either a bias measure or Liverpool.
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    (Original post by sr90)
    They're the same thing.
    Giant format change, enough to say they're different competitions, I decided to use CL wins for a reason, so to not include nottingham forest.

    Plus anyway even if we were to include them(I'm not) then that's 1 out of how many CL winners?
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    Hardly surprising given how much longer teams have been playing league football compared to CL football?...

    And also that there can only be one CL winner each year, whereas there are multiple league winners to pad those league title stats.

    I would say the CL is a harder competition to win in that you can be undone by a bit of bad luck, or get a lot yourself, there's a larger element of chance, it's harder because the best team doesn't always win. You can be far from the best team in your country and yet go on a mazy CL run just like any other cup competition. Can't really do that in the league where the best team usually wins.
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    (Original post by jam278)
    Giant format change, enough to say they're different competitions, I decided to use CL wins for a reason, so to not include nottingham forest.

    Plus anyway even if we were to include them(I'm not) then that's 1 out of how many CL winners?
    Well what do you expect when it's called the Champions League?

    For many years the only way to qualify was to win the league in your country.
 
 
 
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