The Commons Bar Mk XIII - MHoC Chat Thread

Announcements Posted on
How helpful is our apprenticeship zone? Have your say with our short survey 02-12-2016
    Online

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by cranbrook_aspie)
    Congratulations to the Tories on their victory in the 2020 and 2025 general elections
    Oh come on, let's have SOME optimism. I'd still be very surprised if Corbyn is even here in 2020 - his leadership is about changing the base of power in the party, not him personally seeking to become Prime Minister.
    Online

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    Oh come on, let's have SOME optimism. I'd still be very surprised if Corbyn is even here in 2020 - his leadership is about changing the base of power in the party, not him personally seeking to become Prime Minister.
    Surely that's the issue though


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    Oh come on, let's have SOME optimism. I'd still be very surprised if Corbyn is even here in 2020 - his leadership is about changing the base of power in the party, not him personally seeking to become Prime Minister.
    Unfortunately, the damage to Labour's credibility and the public's view of our suitability to govern has already been done, and barring the Tories ****ing up Brexit monstrously, it'll take a very long time to recover.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by cranbrook_aspie)
    Unfortunately, the damage to Labour's credibility and the public's view of our suitability to govern has already been done, and barring the Tories ****ing up Brexit monstrously, it'll take a very long time to recover.
    I don't thinking replacing a leader in less than a year would have made us look suitable to govern.
    Online

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by RayApparently)
    I don't thinking replacing a leader in less than a year would have made us look suitable to govern.
    Your problem is just as much policy related as it is stability related. Corbyn will be torn apart over his hatred of the monarchy, the union and sympathies for certain groups once we head into the election proper. He has a massive amount of baggage on important issues.

    Miliband may looked like Bambi about to be run over and may have read the Guardian too much in terms of his narrative but at least he never hated what the country had become. You could at least believe he was just a nice guy.

    Corbyn on the other hand would hand his first interview upon winning to RT.
    Online

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    Surely that's the issue though


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    It's both the cloud and the silver lining IMO. It's why he won't win a GE, but also why I don't believe he intends to contest one unless it's called early.

    (Original post by cranbrook_aspie)
    Unfortunately, the damage to Labour's credibility and the public's view of our suitability to govern has already been done, and barring the Tories ****ing up Brexit monstrously, it'll take a very long time to recover.
    Perceptions can change very quickly. And we must remember things are hardly likely to be smooth sailing for the Tories either. What's crucial is that we provide an effective opposition and highlight their failures to lay the groundwork for a different Labour leader to come across as a very positive alternative to either Corbyn or May.

    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Your problem is just as much policy related as it is stability related. Corbyn will be torn apart over his hatred of the monarchy, the union and sympathies for certain groups once we head into the election proper. He has a massive amount of baggage on important issues.

    Miliband may looked like Bambi about to be run over and may have read the Guardian too much in terms of his narrative but at least he never hated what the country had become. You could at least believe he was just a nice guy.

    Corbyn on the other hand would hand his first interview upon winning to RT.
    Hence why Corbyn will change the party and move us to the left, but his chosen successor won't hold such views. Corbyn clearly recognises their unpopularity and no longer actively espouses them - they're not going to be party policy.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    Shocking attitude from Labour members here, time for Labour to offer a genuine left-wing alternative, rather than a Tory-lite option. I don't see why it should be Labour win next election or Corbyn gone, small improvements as Tory cuts deepen and we can bring about genuine change.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Your problem is just as much policy related as it is stability related. Corbyn will be torn apart over his hatred of the monarchy, the union and sympathies for certain groups once we head into the election proper. He has a massive amount of baggage on important issues.

    Miliband may looked like Bambi about to be run over and may have read the Guardian too much in terms of his narrative but at least he never hated what the country had become. You could at least believe he was just a nice guy.

    Corbyn on the other hand would hand his first interview upon winning to RT.
    Owen Smith looked breakable to me. Negotiate with ISIS? Urgh. Out of context but still... urgh. I actually he think he made (during this campaign) more faux pas than Corbyn.

    On policy Smith aped Corbyn. The only real difference was that Smith advocated a second referendum which, even as a europhile, I recognise is an electorally disastrous policy to put forward.

    I'd take a personally decent technocrat like Miliband any day. Corbyn is as Corbyn is and Smith is just an utterly average (maybe slightly below average) candidate. I prefer Corbyn. He's actually a better speaker and at least he provokes a passionate response.
    I'm exasperated by the lack of intellectual rigour in Labour's current 'message'. The council of noted economists was promising though.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    People are talking about members leaving the party but let's face it, if Smith had won (and this is after polls predicted a Corbyn landslide, causing mass speculation of electoral fraud) then we would have seen a veritable exodus of members. If we take the premise that we still have to win over a lot of moderate voters, I don't think completely alienating a lot of the more left-wing ones would be a good place to start.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by RayApparently)
    People are talking about members leaving the party but let's face it, if Smith had won (and this is after polls predicted a Corbyn landslide, causing mass speculation of electoral fraud) then we would have seen a veritable exodus of members. If we take the premise that we still have to win over a lot of moderate voters, I don't think completely alienating a lot of the more left-wing ones would be a good place to start.
    I think if Smith won, people would have left the party; given Corbyn's won, I think people have left Labour's electorate.

    ------------------------------------

    Wolfgang Schäuble offers Boris Johnson lesson on EU law
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    I think if Smith won, people would have left the party; given Corbyn's won, I think people have left Labour's electorate.

    ------------------------------------

    Wolfgang Schäuble offers Boris Johnson lesson on EU law
    Meh, there'll be a honeymoon period if the PLP suck it up and Corbyn's team, for lack of a better phrase, gets smart. Then it all depends on the competency of the government.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by RayApparently)
    Meh, there'll be a honeymoon period if the PLP suck it up and Corbyn's team, for lack of a better phrase, gets smart. Then it all depends on the competency of the government.
    Basically it relies on Corbyn learning to not just say what he thinks all the time.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    Basically it relies on Corbyn learning to not just say what he thinks all the time.
    Essentially, yes. Though Smith has the same problem.
    Online

    3
    ReputationRep:
    Credit to Gove, it seems that in 2013 he advised Cameron not to hold the referendum despite being for Brexit.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:


    David Schneider on Twitter
    Online

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Maybe if I pretend that Labour didn't just elect Jeremy Corbyn on an increased vote share it didn't really happen.
    Online

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Credit to Gove, it seems that in 2013 he advised Cameron not to hold the referendum despite being for Brexit.
    Could you see a way back for Osborne/him ever being leader or do you think his chances are gone now?
    Online

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Could you see a way back for Osborne/him ever being leader or do you think his chances are gone now?
    I think that for most of the past 6 years, Osbourne's enemies (be they on the left or right) have underestimated him quite consistently. It's certainly true that he is prone to trapping himself but it's also been the case that even if he takes that step back, he's always usually still taken two steps forward afterward. With this in mind i think it would be foolish to write him off (especially since he's only 43).

    What he's doing right now seems interesting in that he's created a thinktank called the Northern Powerhouse and i think that what he hopes to do over the next years is create a group of MP's who believe in his vision and will loyally support him (this will eventually force May to give him a cabinet job).

    Given that our MP's are all so young these days i'd certainly not rule out a Boris vs Osbourne contest in say 2024.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Could you see a way back for Osborne/him ever being leader or do you think his chances are gone now?
    Both Gove and Osborne are busted flushes, far as I am concerned they are both turds.
    Online

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Although I voted for Own Smith, his campaigning strategy was truly awful. He seemed to run on two contradictory platforms.
    On the one hand he ran on the fact that 'I'm not Corbyn', while on the other he ran on the fact that he was 'just as radical as Corbyn'.
 
 
 
Write a reply… Reply
Submit reply

Register

Thanks for posting! You just need to create an account in order to submit the post
  1. this can't be left blank
    that username has been taken, please choose another Forgotten your password?
  2. this can't be left blank
    this email is already registered. Forgotten your password?
  3. this can't be left blank

    6 characters or longer with both numbers and letters is safer

  4. this can't be left empty
    your full birthday is required
  1. Oops, you need to agree to our Ts&Cs to register
  2. Slide to join now Processing…

Updated: December 5, 2016
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Today on TSR
Poll
Would you rather have...?
Study resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Quick reply
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.