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    Simply lost for words...

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
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    Simply lost for words...

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    Which country.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Which country.
    No idea, probably a Western one

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    No idea, probably a Western one

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    Really though the country should promote having more children. We need higher fertility rate.
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    I hope that awful Sturgeon woman hasn't got a veto on us leaving the EU.....
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    (Original post by meenu89)
    I hope that awful Sturgeon woman hasn't got a veto on us leaving the EU.....
    I can't see May allowing it. There's nothing constitutionally that gives her the power.
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    Corbyn scoring higher on the nasty scale? Astonishing

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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    Corbyn scoring higher on the nasty scale? Astonishing

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    To be fair, neither is really seen as nasty, still ironic though that leader of the self professed nasty party is nicer than Mr "kinder politics"

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    I hope Sturgeon succeeds, hypocritical to support democracy when only 50% of UK nations decide for the rest of the UK. It won't happen though.

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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    I hope Sturgeon succeeds, hypocritical to support democracy when only 50% of UK nations decide for the rest of the UK. It won't happen though.

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    That line of argument inherently fails though. Part of referendums is an omov system, and the argument can simply be flipped on it's head, if sturgeon gets her way it's still 50% of nations deciding, except the nations are irrelevant, 52% of those who votes is more than 48%, as much as some of the remainers want to disagree with.

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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    Well, those are exactly the things we definitely need to move on from. Most of the country is patriotic, in favour of the monarchy, pro-union and supports our armed forces - nothing controversial there or that we need to shy away from. In fact, I would say they are basic requirements for anyone we put forward as a potential Prime Minister, and a big part of the reason Corbyn is unlikely to suceed. I respect that many of our party members have different personal views, but there has to be some recognition of what's possible, practical and pragmatic: and going against the wishes of the nation in matters close to their heart which many are far more passionate about than economics isn't any of that.

    What lessons would they be, out of interest?
    I always wonder why, in the military argument, where being in the army is patriotic and honourable, that a politician saying "we should keep our soldiers out of war" never took off.

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    That line of argument inherently fails though. Part of referendums is an omov system, and the argument can simply be flipped on it's head, if sturgeon gets her way it's still 50% of nations deciding, except the nations are irrelevant, 52% of those who votes is more than 48%, as much as some of the remainers want to disagree with.

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    Not if it results in Scotland itself voting to Remain while the rest of the UK leaves. I would have probably inserted a clause requiring 4 states to all agree pre- referendum but Scotland won't be forcing England to stay IN, but England can force Scotland to stay OUT.

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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    Not if it results in Scotland itself voting to Remain while the rest of the UK leaves. I would have probably inserted a clause requiring 4 states to all agree pre- referendum but Scotland won't be forcing England to stay IN, but England can force Scotland to stay OUT.

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    Scotland also had the opportunity two years ago to stop us taking them out (taking themselves out in the process). Part of being in the Union is the decisions of the UK apply to them too.

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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Your looking too much at the economic prism. What makes those of us on the right despise him in comparison to the mild dislike of Miliband is that Corbyn hates the institutions of this nation be it in his republicanism, his lack of belief in the union or his anti-western sympathies. I'm sure somebody with his economic policies would result but that's not the primary threat Corbyn poses.

    Truth be told i don't think Labour can be feared even with a new leader. As i said to Q and R in another thread, until you accept your past and learn the right lessons you won't be in government without a shock event.

    *Brexit was a shock event but not one which has yet impoverished or affected many peoples mentality.
    At the moment all "lessons to be learned" for electability have been championed by Tories. Copying Tory movements isn't the way. Labour suddenly accepts military intervention (when Chilcot has happened) back private health care (the core of Labour support) supports welfare reform (a failed policy to date and sickens majority Lab voters)

    Labour either has to continue under Corbyn until the Tories push further right and alienate the centre or a compromise candidate has to emerge with NEW ideas. I'm not a Smith fan but his New Deal is exactly what I'm thinking of.

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Scotland also had the opportunity two years ago to stop us taking them out (taking themselves out in the process). Part of being in the Union is the decisions of the UK apply to them too.

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    You mean, except that they were given the proviso of a new referendum if the UK left the EU.

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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    You mean, except that they were given the proviso of a new referendum if the UK left the EU.

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    Ummm, where?

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Ummm, where?

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    Wasn't there a clause (Smith Commission?) discussing another referendum would only occur due to "extenuating circumstances?"

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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    Wasn't there a clause (Smith Commission?) discussing another referendum would only occur due to "extenuating circumstances?"

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    The SNP have certainly been saying that they would try for one, but also claiming a year of 60% support so it's not even likely.

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    Expectation if a BoE rate cut in the coming months for s few months, being brought back up to 0.5% early next year

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    I see Jezza is having difficulty with inflation, saying Trident was forecast to cost £20bn 10 years ago, but £30bn now, funnily enough that is roughly the original 20bn inflation adjusted

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