D&D Religion's "Ask About Sikhism" Thread Watch

Ggmu!
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#881
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#881
Understood, is that the authoritative view, or is it not really mentioned in any scriptures?

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Noor90
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#882
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#882
(Original post by Ggmu!)
Understood, is that the authoritative view, or is it not really mentioned in any scriptures?

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Well I have just ran a search for it online and I was not able to find any passage within Guru Granth Sahib which explicitly prohibits alcohol/drugs etc...

All of the Gurus lived drug free and alcohol free lives, we are also taught that our own minds are the greatest obstacle to overcome when it comes to realizing God, we are not supposed to put anything in our bodies which may cause harm or be slaves to intoxication, so if you connect the dots it becomes quite clear (at least to me) that alcohol and drugs, unless they are used for medical reasons, are not to be used.

At the end of the day, we do not believe in a God who strikes people down or himself dishes out punishment to mortals, we believe that you reap what you sow, we all have the freedom to make our own choices and do what we want, but we all have to make the bed we sleep in, every action has a reaction and there are consequences for what we do, we punish ourselves and reward ourselves through our own actions, God doesn't have much to do with it.
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IdeasForLife
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#883
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#883
Is reincarnation a yes or a no?
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nadarat
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#884
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#884
There are two situations

already stated
if all our issues are resolved , we have "Understood THE GREAT PLAY ", Found peace Within ie our permanent home, then there is no rebirth its known as jeevan mukt/Nirvaana.
but if our attachent to Worldly issues/Maya/illusion remained ,there are unfulfilled desires ,these will lead to our rebirth or DANCE IN ARENA again .
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P.Kaur
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#885
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#885
(Original post by Ggmu!)
Understood, is that the authoritative view, or is it not really mentioned in any scriptures?

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It is mentioned in scripture and it is part of the Sikh Rehit Maryada (code of conduct)- one should not take intoxicants.

http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=2126

jooaa khaelai madh peevai so narak mae(n) jaavai ||
Those who gamble or drink alcohol will suffer in hell.
- Rehatnama Bhai Daya Singh Jee

PAR NARI, JOOA, AST, CHORI, MADIRA JAAN
another's woman, gambling, lies, stealing and alcohol
PANCH AIB YAI JAGAT MEH TAJAI SO SINGH SUJAAN
know these 5 vices in the world, a Singh who forsakes these is wise

KUTHA, HUKA, CHARAS, TAMAKU
meat, smoking pipe, hashish, tobacco
GANJA, TOPI, TARI, KHAKU
cannabis resin, snuff, distilled alcohol or ashes
INKI AUR NA KABHOO DEKHEY
those who never look towards these
REHATVANT SO SINGH VESEKHEY
is a Singh who stays in absolute discipline


I've read some other quotations too but these were the quickest to find.
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Ornlu
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#886
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#886
(Original post by P.Kaur)
It is mentioned in scripture and it is part of the Sikh Rehit Maryada (code of conduct)- one should not take intoxicants.

http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=2126

jooaa khaelai madh peevai so narak mae(n) jaavai ||
Those who gamble or drink alcohol will suffer in hell.
- Rehatnama Bhai Daya Singh Jee

PAR NARI, JOOA, AST, CHORI, MADIRA JAAN
another's woman, gambling, lies, stealing and alcohol
PANCH AIB YAI JAGAT MEH TAJAI SO SINGH SUJAAN
know these 5 vices in the world, a Singh who forsakes these is wise

KUTHA, HUKA, CHARAS, TAMAKU
meat, smoking pipe, hashish, tobacco
GANJA, TOPI, TARI, KHAKU
cannabis resin, snuff, distilled alcohol or ashes
INKI AUR NA KABHOO DEKHEY
those who never look towards these
REHATVANT SO SINGH VESEKHEY
is a Singh who stays in absolute discipline


I've read some other quotations too but these were the quickest to find.
'Hell' does not exist in Sikhism, per se.
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Ornlu
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#887
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#887
(Original post by Leon Trotsky)
Do you think it's fair that your religion forces naturally hairy girls to grow moustaches?


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No; it's unfair that society stigmatises them for being naturally hairy.
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Ggmu!
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#888
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(Original post by P.Kaur)
It is mentioned in scripture and it is part of the Sikh Rehit Maryada (code of conduct)- one should not take intoxicants.

http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=2126

jooaa khaelai madh peevai so narak mae(n) jaavai ||
Those who gamble or drink alcohol will suffer in hell.
- Rehatnama Bhai Daya Singh Jee

PAR NARI, JOOA, AST, CHORI, MADIRA JAAN
another's woman, gambling, lies, stealing and alcohol
PANCH AIB YAI JAGAT MEH TAJAI SO SINGH SUJAAN
know these 5 vices in the world, a Singh who forsakes these is wise

KUTHA, HUKA, CHARAS, TAMAKU
meat, smoking pipe, hashish, tobacco
GANJA, TOPI, TARI, KHAKU
cannabis resin, snuff, distilled alcohol or ashes
INKI AUR NA KABHOO DEKHEY
those who never look towards these
REHATVANT SO SINGH VESEKHEY
is a Singh who stays in absolute discipline


I've read some other quotations too but these were the quickest to find.
Interesting, I never knew there was a hell in Sikhism.

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nadarat
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#889
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#889
(Original post by Ggmu!)
Interesting, I never knew there was a hell in Sikhism.

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Quote above by P KAUR are not from Guru Granth sahib ji . Abrahmic Heaven/Hell are rejected in Sikhi .

Separation from Waheguru may be taken as hell and Union as heaven .


[TD] ਕਵਨੁ ਨਰਕੁ ਕਿਆ ਸੁਰਗੁ ਬਿਚਾਰਾ ਸੰਤਨ ਦੋਊ ਰਾਦੇ
What is hell, and what is heaven? The Saints reject them both.

[TD] ਹਮ ਕਾਹੂ ਕੀ ਕਾਣਿ ਕਢਤੇ ਅਪਨੇ ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੇ ॥੫॥
I have no obligation to either of them, by the Grace of my Guru. ||5||


http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gur...d=41644#l41644
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Truefaith
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#890
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#890
Do you believe that the Gurus had the same soul?


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nadarat
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#891
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#891
(Original post by Truefaith)
Do you believe that the Gurus had the same soul?


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we normally say all Guru sahib were One Jot(light) ,its not in literal sense ,its metaphor actually , meaning message of All were Same .

All used same name "NANAK" in Guru Granth Sahib and no one differentiate the word of first Guru from second Guru or other Gurus .
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Ggmu!
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#892
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(Original post by nadarat)
Quote above by P KAUR are not from Guru Granth sahib ji . Abrahmic Heaven/Hell are rejected in Sikhi .

Separation from Waheguru may be taken as hell and Union as heaven .


[TD] ਕਵਨੁ ਨਰਕੁ ਕਿਆ ਸੁਰਗੁ ਬਿਚਾਰਾ ਸੰਤਨ ਦੋਊ ਰਾਦੇ
What is hell, and what is heaven? The Saints reject them both.

[TD] ਹਮ ਕਾਹੂ ਕੀ ਕਾਣਿ ਕਢਤੇ ਅਪਨੇ ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੇ ॥੫॥
I have no obligation to either of them, by the Grace of my Guru. ||5||


http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gur...d=41644#l41644
Then where did P. KAUR'S quote come from?

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nadarat
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#893
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#893
(Original post by Ggmu!)
Then where did P. KAUR'S quote come from?

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these seems from rehitnama as mentioned there " Rehatnama Bhai Daya Singh Jee" ,

recorded by Guru Gobind singh Sahib s companion , there are several rehitnaamas , there authenticity are in question .

Sikh rely only on Guru Granth Sahib ji .
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Truefaith
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#894
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(Original post by nadarat)
we normally say all Guru sahib were One Jot(light) ,its not in literal sense ,its metaphor actually , meaning message of All were Same .

All used same name "NANAK" in Guru Granth Sahib and no one differentiate the word of first Guru from second Guru or other Gurus .
Oh thank you so they had different souls?


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nadarat
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(Original post by Truefaith)
Oh thank you so they had different souls?


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ya different but in resonance with each other .
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nadarat
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#896
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#896
(Original post by Noor90)
You are very welcome



Ahh I think I see what is going on here. You are trying to understand Sikhi from an Abrahamic perspective. I was too, when I started. There is a huge problem with going about it like that. What has happened is that Abrahamic missionaries and scholars, in an attempt to categorize and subsequently subdue alternative religious thought, systematize other religions into simple lists. The result of this categorization, is a classification of belief systems into "Religion". Sikhi is not "a religion", because the word religion carries with it immense baggage borrowed from Abrahamic theology and academia. By answering missionary questions like "are you mono or poly", "what are your primary commandments", "what is considered sin", etc... we conform our understanding of Sikhi into a pre-shaped cubby defined by the Abrahamic understanding. This reduces our conceptual understanding of Sikhi into predefined definitions that are colonial in nature-- they are not our own.


That is why you are asking for the "fundamental dogmas" of Sikhi, I wanted to know myself, coming from an Islamic background, that is how I tackled Sikhi and tried to comprehend it; I soon found out that Sikhism does not fit into Abrahamic cubbies.


A general definition of dogma would be authoritative religious laws, deemed to be absolutely true, without any sort of proof. An example would be that all non-believers are going to hell in the after life.


Seeing as most of these laws come from sacred scriptures and texts, it is only fitting to first search the Guru Granth Sahib for any “laws”. Yet when one does read the Guru Granth, (which unfortunately is not too common an occurrence) we realize that that such a search would be in vain. While one is likely to find the praise and glorification of God, a call for Simran and Kirtan (meditation and recitation of the hymns), and even some words of a morale boosting nature, we cannot find any sort of “laws”. Why is this so?


The Gurus’ goal was not to set out how many times to pray, what to eat, or even how to eat it, but rather to create humans of such high moral character and thinking that they would be considered model citizens for any country. If there are any laws in Sikhism, they are ones of such universal nature that most, if not all of them would be found or represented in the International Declaration of Human Rights, or any other such charter.


How can Sikhism, based on divine hukum (accepting the will of God and living within it), not have any laws? What do the followers follow? Moral values, of trust, honesty, hard work, and many more are told to be means of reaching the ultimate goal of oneness with God, but there are no commands or orders. In other words Sikhism was made as a way of life. A philosophy of hard work, praise of the one and only Lord, and service to humanity. This is the beauty of Sikhism. Through Gurus’ infinite knowledge, they gave us neither laws nor orders, but rather extremely beautiful and universal poetry. Poetry which tells us how to be good human beings. Dogma, in every sense of the word, is contrary to the Sikh belief.


Sikhi does not concern itself with the afterlife. There is no promise of rivers of wine or 72 virgins waiting for you upon death. Sikhi is about living this life, here and now, and not worrying about things that are out of your control. It teaches us that we must all make the bed we sleep in, that there are consequences for our actions, not when we die, but during this life. All of us have free will, we can do whatever we want to do, the important thing to realize is that every action has a reaction, your actions don't just affect you, they affect the people around you as well. Guru Granth Sahib emphasises over and over again the need to be in control of your desires, wants and most importantly, your mind. Guru Nanak went as far as saying ""By conquering your mind, you can conquer the world." We are taught to think for ourselves, rely on our judgement, reason and logic, but to do that, we MUST be in control, you cannot walk that path if you are a victim to your mind, your wants, your desires.


One of the main goals, if not the single biggest goal, in Sikhi is to harness our minds. To make the mind a tool for us, not against us. There are 5 vices that we must constantly battle to be able to rule our minds - Kaam, krodh, lobh, moh, and ahankar. That is: lust, wrath, greed, attachment, and ego. This is the guidance from our Gurus, to not be slaves to our urges, but to use them to our advantage.


Sikhism is not the right path for someone who wants to walk through life sucking the thumb on one hand and holding onto God's finger with the other. We are allowed to do what we want. God is not here to baby us, tell us what to do in every situation, we are supposed to be self-reliant, self-dependant, to have faith in ourselves and be able to make the right choices on our own. The Guru Granth Sahib, like I have already mentioned, is not a text of rules and regulations, punishments and rewards. It is here to enhance our existence, not dictate it, it is a guide, the choice to listen and apply it's message is up to us.
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thanks for lovely post ,Noor .
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P.Kaur
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#897
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#897
Whatever your interpretation of "hell" is- be it a physical place or a mental state, separation from God- is somewhat irrelevant. I answered the question about alcohol with a Shabad from Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and Rehitnamas (written by companions of the Guru, which a Sikh should also follow.)
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Truefaith
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#898
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#898
(Original post by nadarat)
ya different but in resonance with each other .
Thanks


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Proud_Student
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#899
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#899
Yello got a question here.

Lets take an example. There is a sikh right, he is not fully practising but he believes in the spiritual teachings of the religion. He does prayer when he can, but he does not keep his hair etc. He is a graceful soul and constantly helping and never speaks ill. So he's a goody 2 shoes (not in a bad way )

Would he be condemned to rebirth as stated above?
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nadarat
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(Original post by Proud_Student)
Yello got a question here.

Lets take an example. There is a sikh right, he is not fully practising but he believes in the spiritual teachings of the religion. He does prayer when he can, but he does not keep his hair etc. He is a graceful soul and constantly helping and never speaks ill. So he's a goody 2 shoes (not in a bad way )

Would he be condemned to rebirth as stated above?
Yello P_Student

no condemnation ,no forceful rebirth for anyone whether one is with pure soul or not . its will be on individuals wish , toally free will .one will get what he/she wish for .



for example those who are satisfied and found peace within will never opt for rebirth because they realised the ultimate TRUTH .

[TD] ਗੁਰਿ ਕਟੀ ਮਿਹਡੀ ਜੇਵੜੀ
The Guru has cut away my bonds.

[TD] ਹਉ ਬਾਹੁੜਿ ਛਿੰਝ ਨਚਊ ਨਾਨਕ ਅਉਸਰੁ ਲਧਾ ਭਾਲਿ ਜੀਉ ॥੨੧॥੨॥੨੯॥
I shall not have to dance in the wrestling arena of life again. Nanak has searched, and found this opportunity. ||21||2||29||




and

regarding hair Guru GRanth SAhib says



[TD] ਕਬੀਰ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਇਕ ਸਿਉ ਕੀਏ ਆਨ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਜਾਇ
Kabeer, when you are in love with the One Lord, duality and alienation depart.
[TD] ਭਾਵੈ ਲਾਂਬੇ ਕੇਸ ਕਰੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਘਰਰਿ ਮੁਡਾਇ ॥੨੫॥
You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald. ||25||
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