Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing? Watch

Poll: Should Scotland be an independent country?
YES (299)
32.12%
NO (632)
67.88%
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flugelr
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#9001
(Original post by Maths Tutor)
Yes, "unbearable" by 'Bitter Together' because he totally demolishes their every single lie.
Its more to do with the fact that he is an intolerent, transphobic, bigoted bully.
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sauzee_4
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#9002
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#9002
New question, lets try to discuss this without abusing each other:

Is rejecting a currency union in the rUK's best interests?

I'll answer first: it isn't in their best interest to reject it. the strength of Sterling will go down without Scottish input and the rUK's balance of payments will go through the roof.

What do we think?
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Midlander
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(Original post by sauzee_4)
New question, lets try to discuss this without abusing each other:

Is rejecting a currency union in the rUK's best interests?

I'll answer first: it isn't in their best interest to reject it. the strength of Sterling will go down without Scottish input and the rUK's balance of payments will go through the roof.

What do we think?
Justify both assertions.


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Cryptographic
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#9004
(Original post by sauzee_4)
New question, lets try to discuss this without abusing each other:

Is rejecting a currency union in the rUK's best interests?

I'll answer first: it isn't in their best interest to reject it. the strength of Sterling will go down without Scottish input and the rUK's balance of payments will go through the roof.

What do we think?
As with all your previous posts, Citation is needed. And politically yes it is, the party that denies it will make 58% of the population happy. Also there are other issues, e.g. handing over of part of rUK's national sovereignty etc. Quite simply, I am afraid the Scottish would make a minimal difference in my opinion re the sterling's strength. Politically, it would be suicide accepting the currency union without a political one.
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MatureStudent36
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#9005
(Original post by sauzee_4)
New question, lets try to discuss this without abusing each other:

Is rejecting a currency union in the rUK's best interests?

I'll answer first: it isn't in their best interest to reject it. the strength of Sterling will go down without Scottish input and the rUK's balance of payments will go through the roof.

What do we think?
What makes you say that? Is it because that's what Alex Salmond wants?

The UK doesn't do currency unions. This has been seen with the fallout from the Euro zone crisis. It's been seen with the SNP doing a huge u turn on it's desire to embrace the €.

the argument that you're putting forward could be used to argue for the adoption of the €, yet time and time again the majority of the UK have said they don't want it.

although youre right in saying that it would weaken the rUK with the loss if oil revenues, this loss is more than made up by the relocation of Edinburgh's financial services sector which currently represents 10% of Scotland's GDP, down south.

youve also ignored the fact that the majority if the rUKs electorate don't want one. What would be left of the political parties have said they don't want one and the governor of the BoE has said its unlikely to be successful.
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Blue Meltwater
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#9006
I sometimes feel like the only person in Scotland who wouldn't see being forced to join the Euro as a bad thing.
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L i b
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#9007
(Original post by Blue Meltwater)
I sometimes feel like the only person in Scotland who wouldn't see being forced to join the Euro as a bad thing.
Possibly. There aren't many people who'd like to join the Euro, much less be effectively forced into it. That's not to say it isn't perfectly legitimate. It is, at least, an honest argument to make, and one I will happily listen to and consider on its merits.

As you will probably have guessed, I don't support joining the Euro. But I do think many of the arguments made against it are simplistic or even straight-up wrong. There is a case to be made, and unfortunately it is tabloidesque scaremongering that is stopping it from gaining any traction.
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billydisco
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#9008
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#9008
Get rid of Scotland and we can prevent Labour Governments more easily!
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skunkboy
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#9009
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#9009
(Original post by euphful)
The great thing about Scottish independence is that, if achieved, it will have been a free and fair referendum that is legal and just.

Nothing about what Russia is doing in Ukraine is comparable.


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It's comparable,of course. Those Russians and Scottish people do love freedom.

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sauzee_4
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#9010
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
What makes you say that? Is it because that's what Alex Salmond wants?

The UK doesn't do currency unions. This has been seen with the fallout from the Euro zone crisis. It's been seen with the SNP doing a huge u turn on it's desire to embrace the €.

the argument that you're putting forward could be used to argue for the adoption of the €, yet time and time again the majority of the UK have said they don't want it.

although youre right in saying that it would weaken the rUK with the loss if oil revenues, this loss is more than made up by the relocation of Edinburgh's financial services sector which currently represents 10% of Scotland's GDP, down south.

youve also ignored the fact that the majority if the rUKs electorate don't want one. What would be left of the political parties have said they don't want one and the governor of the BoE has said its unlikely to be successful.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile...omist.23757346

Don't remember the BoE governor saying it wouldn't work but happy to be corrected if you can show me his quotes.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...n-independence

Ok yes it's Nicola Sturgeon so could well be biased! but £60bn worth of goods is exported from the UK into Scotland and the rUK would have to suffer transaction costs through rejecting a currency union
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Midlander
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#9011
(Original post by skunkboy)
It's comparable,of course. Those Russians and Scottish people do love freedom.

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What do Scottish people need freedom from, Braveheart?


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Midlander
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#9012
(Original post by sauzee_4)
http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile...omist.23757346

Don't remember the BoE governor saying it wouldn't work but happy to be corrected if you can show me his quotes.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...n-independence

Ok yes it's Nicola Sturgeon so could well be biased! but £60bn worth of goods is exported from the UK into Scotland and the rUK would have to suffer transaction costs through rejecting a currency union
Scotland exports more to RUK than to the rest of the world. RUK exports more to the rest of the world than Scotland-so these transaction costs you talk of will impinge upon Scotland more than they will to RUK. RUK probably won't be too keen on doing much business with the country that has spent years insulting it and patronising it from across the border, either.


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MatureStudent36
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(Original post by sauzee_4)
http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile...omist.23757346

Don't remember the BoE governor saying it wouldn't work but happy to be corrected if you can show me his quotes.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...n-independence

Ok yes it's Nicola Sturgeon so could well be biased! but £60bn worth of goods is exported from the UK into Scotland and the rUK would have to suffer transaction costs through rejecting a currency union
The UK export $503 billion per year throughout the world. There transaction costs associated with that, but I still don't see much political appetite to reduce those 'transaction' costs to take on the €, $ or any other major currency like the yen, Rouble, Rupee or Remnimbi.

You should start advocating the reduction in transaction costs for Scotland to take on the €.


Nicola Sturgeon has form for making it up
as she goes along.
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FinalMH
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#9014
(Original post by Midlander)
RUK probably won't be too keen on doing much business with the country that has spent years insulting it and patronising it from across the border, either.


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oh no, the nationalist think the rUK are going to do more business with Sottish because they are independent lmao (sarcasm)

However some students in the UK can't wait for their free education paid for by the Scottish Tax payer in 2016.
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Studentus-anonymous
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#9015
(Original post by sauzee_4)
http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile...omist.23757346

Don't remember the BoE governor saying it wouldn't work but happy to be corrected if you can show me his quotes.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...n-independence

Ok yes it's Nicola Sturgeon so could well be biased! but £60bn worth of goods is exported from the UK into Scotland and the rUK would have to suffer transaction costs through rejecting a currency union
Or it would just trade those goods elsewhere.

More than likely businesses would either force the Scottish government (unlikely to shift the rUK stance and the Scottish state would be weak and pliable) to drop those charges/lower them, or it'll simply refocus elsewhere leaving Scotland without that £60b claimed worth of goods.

It's a common economic meme to witness a so called local business shift away from said area with barely a second thought when the money flow decreases. Companies have loyalty to profit first, and local links somewhere in the middle if that.

Sometimes I feel like some people severely under-estimate how little influence and power Scotland will have to get it's own way. At least North Korea for all it's pariah state ways has a rickety nuke.
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MatureStudent36
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(Original post by Studentus-anonymous)
Or it would just trade those goods elsewhere.

More than likely businesses would either force the Scottish government (unlikely to shift the rUK stance and the Scottish state would be weak and pliable) to drop those charges/lower them, or it'll simply refocus elsewhere leaving Scotland without that £60b claimed worth of goods.

It's a common economic meme to witness a so called local business shift away from said area with barely a second thought when the money flow decreases. Companies have loyalty to profit first, and local links somewhere in the middle if that.

Sometimes I feel like some people severely under-estimate how little influence and power Scotland will have to get it's own way. At least North Korea for all it's pariah state ways has a rickety nuke.
I'd have said that that underestimate is due to a severe lack of knowledge of economics.
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Boab
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(Original post by Midlander)
RUK probably won't be too keen on doing much business with the country that has spent years insulting it and patronising it from across the border, either.Posted from TSR Mobile
I wonder if all the Scottish Unionists on this forum look at Midlander's posts and agree with him, or can they simply not bring themselves to argue with a fellow NO man?
How Scotland has been insulting and patronising the rUK for years is beyond me, or at least any more insulting and patronising than England has been to Scotland!

A quote from Andrew Wilson in Scotland on Sunday (a Unionist rag) seems apt on this occasion....
"What England needs to hear is the truth. And that truth is that this vote is not about them or our attitude to them. It is about us and our attitude to ourselves. In psychological terms we are not seeking to move “away from” anyone. Rather we are moving “towards” ourselves."
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Good bloke
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(Original post by Boab)
A quote from Andrew Wilson in Scotland on Sunday (a Unionist rag) seems apt on this occasion....
"What England needs to hear is the truth. And that truth is that this vote is not about them or our attitude to them. It is about us and our attitude to ourselves. In psychological terms we are not seeking to move “away from” anyone. Rather we are moving “towards” ourselves."
But that is not the message we are getting. iScotland supporters moan that the no campaign is negative, but in fact they are just as bad as they constantly witter about escaping Westminster's yoke. It is tedious.
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MatureStudent36
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(Original post by Boab)
I wonder if all the Scottish Unionists on this forum look at Midlander's posts and agree with him, or can they simply not bring themselves to argue with a fellow NO man?
How Scotland has been insulting and patronising the rUK for years is beyond me, or at least any more insulting and patronising than England has been to Scotland!

A quote from Andrew Wilson in Scotland on Sunday (a Unionist rag) seems apt on this occasion....
"What England needs to hear is the truth. And that truth is that this vote is not about them or our attitude to them. It is about us and our attitude to ourselves. In psychological terms we are not seeking to move “away from” anyone. Rather we are moving “towards” ourselves."
There does seem to be a awful lot of anti English rhetoric. Veiled admittedly, but it's there.
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Boab
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(Original post by Good bloke)
But that is not the message we are getting. iScotland supporters moan that the no campaign is negative, but in fact they are just as bad as they constantly witter about escaping Westminster's yoke. It is tedious.
We don't moan that it's too negative, we rejoice in the fact, as it's going to help us win!

The YES campaign is more and more being led not by the politicians but by grass roots campaigns. You can find discussions being held all over Scotland every day, and it isn't the politicians who are addressing these audiences, it is the public.

We talk of what Scotland can achieve, not about Westminster!
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