The Commons Bar Mk IX - MHoC Chat Thread Watch

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KingStannis
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#9121
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#9121
(Original post by Jammy Duel)
How would I define it? Mathematically.
What is it? well, a cuboid of approximately 1 unit x 1 unit x 4 units (approximating to keep it to integers given they are very simple to define, fractions and reals, not so much). If necerssary I can assume that they are aware of the plank length and define 1 unit accordingly. I would be defining my world mathematically.
So?
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Jammy Duel
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#9122
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#9122
(Original post by KingStannis)
So?
The world is defined mathematically. If integers aren't objects then nothing is.
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KingStannis
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#9123
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#9123
(Original post by Jammy Duel)
The world is defined mathematically. If integers aren't objects then nothing is.
This seems to be a fallacy. You seem to be moving from the best way for a person to get as sense of an object taking into account epistemic considerations with what an object is. Well, just because in your example explaining something mathematically would be better doesn't mean that definition is true as opposed to "A box is something that has four sides, you put things in it" etc etc. Both those definitions are true. You wouldn't say that the box can't exist unless you can use linguistic symbols in english to describe it. Whether or not the english language exists, the box could still exist.

Also, your example could break down because the other universe could employ another mathematics.
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Jammy Duel
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#9124
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#9124
(Original post by KingStannis)
This seems to be a fallacy. You seem to be moving from the best way for a person to get as sense of an object taking into account epistemic considerations with what an object is. Well, just because in your example explaining something mathematically would be better doesn't mean that definition is true as opposed to "A box is something that has four sides, you put things in it" etc etc. Both those definitions are true. You wouldn't say that the box can't exist unless you can use linguistic symbols in english to describe it. Whether or not the english language exists, the box could still exist.

Also, your example could break down because the other universe could employ another mathematics.
Well, this box doesn't have 4 sides

And as for your "other mathematics", this universe also has "other" mathematics. Given the axiomatic nature of mathematics, any mathematical system is ALWAYS true, given those axioms. If I go to an alien race, or into another universe, and give the axioms we use the mathematics will still be true (I always like to use this to casually boast that I can speak to aliens ). Whether the mathematics we use will be useful or not is another matter, but how useful something is is not an indicator of it's "correctness". Knowing complex analysis may be no help what so ever for passing a maths test in KS1, but that does not stop it being true (the way it is axiomatically defined and constructed).
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Jammy Duel
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#9125
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#9125
Somebody please tell me that these pointless, practically joke, bills are just a symptom of the early stages of a parliament and won't be continuing through the whole thing, these are the sorts of things I would expect at the end when people want to save good ideas for the election, not at the start of a term.
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KingStannis
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#9126
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#9126
(Original post by Jammy Duel)
Well, this box doesn't have 4 sides

And as for your "other mathematics", this universe also has "other" mathematics. Given the axiomatic nature of mathematics, any mathematical system is ALWAYS true, given those axioms. If I go to an alien race, or into another universe, and give the axioms we use the mathematics will still be true (I always like to use this to casually boast that I can speak to aliens ). Whether the mathematics we use will be useful or not is another matter, but how useful something is is not an indicator of it's "correctness". Knowing complex analysis may be no help what so ever for passing a maths test in KS1, but that does not stop it being true (the way it is axiomatically defined and constructed).
I think you're implicitly holding yourself to a platonic notion of integers by saying they exist. But, it's too late for this **** and everyone else in the thread have hung themselves after this conversation lol.
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Jammy Duel
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#9127
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#9127
(Original post by KingStannis)
I think you're implicitly holding yourself to a platonic notion of integers by saying they exist. But, it's too late for this **** and everyone else in the thread have hung themselves after this conversation lol.
In any universe I can trivially construct an integer set.
Well, strictly the set of natural numbers (plus zero), although I think it is relatively trivial to extend this to the integers, although still somewhat more complex than the naturals.
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KingStannis
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#9128
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#9128
(Original post by Jammy Duel)
In any universe I can trivially construct an integer set.
But does that mean it's real? In a significant sense (ie, more than just descriptions, but actual metaphysical objects)?
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Jammy Duel
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#9129
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#9129
(Original post by KingStannis)
But does that mean it's real? In a significant sense (ie, more than just descriptions, but actual metaphysical objects)?
Well, the whole purpose of mathematics is to explain and manipulate the world around us, and I think you need a time machine to go and debate the Greeks about this

But I could argue, yes, in that the elements of the set of integers are equivalent to sets of real objects, or, far less abstractly, the natural numbers are equivalent to physical sets, with the ability to extend it to the naturals including zero.
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Green_Pink
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#9130
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#9130
(Original post by Jammy Duel)
Somebody please tell me that these pointless, practically joke, bills are just a symptom of the early stages of a parliament and won't be continuing through the whole thing, these are the sorts of things I would expect at the end when people want to save good ideas for the election, not at the start of a term.
I agree entirely But on a serious note I expect a lot of the more detailed stuff is still being written, debated and amended internally right now.
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Jammy Duel
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#9131
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#9131
(Original post by Green_Pink)
I agree entirely But on a serious note I expect a lot of the more detailed stuff is still being written, debated and amended internally right now.
I should hope not. They had the end of the last term, the election campaign, and over a month since to do so. I know we have stuff lined up (so we don't have too much in the house at a time), and I know UKIP has quite a bit ready to go when they can submit again. I have some stuff that I would have written and submitted, at least internally, by now, but I'm waiting for some other stuff to go to the house before I can add the details, so will wait until then to write it.

And it doesn't have to be lengthy and detailed to not be pointless and a joke.
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Tanqueray91
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#9132
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#9132
(Original post by Green_Pink)
I agree entirely But on a serious note I expect a lot of the more detailed stuff is still being written, debated and amended internally right now.
Are you insinuating that this quality bill you link is a joke
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Jammy Duel
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#9133
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#9133
Surprised how little the internet seems to have reacted to the GoT finale.
I know not many will have seen it yet this side of the Atlantic, but I would have expected more about a certain scene being out there.

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tehFrance
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#9134
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#9134
(Original post by Jammy Duel)
Surprised how little the internet seems to have reacted to the GoT finale.
I know not many will have seen it yet this side of the Atlantic, but I would have expected more about a certain scene being out there.

Posted from TSR Mobile
Not seen it yet as I fell asleep before it aired on HBO (through Sling TV), $40 a month is a steal for HBO/ESPN and Basic Cable, it's less than my phone bill

I'll catch up tonight, well not tonight, I'm off to see Jurassic World so tomorrow night.
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Rakas21
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#9135
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#9135
Streamed it (illegally of course) once i woke up.

Not the best written (too many climatic storylines) but several of the arcs were executed perfectly.

Best episode of the series was at Hardhome though when the Whites attacked.
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Jammy Duel
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#9136
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#9136
Stayed up to watch E3, then some of the post show stuff, so watched it at 5am
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Tanqueray91
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#9137
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#9137
(Original post by Jammy Duel)
Stayed up to watch E3, then some of the post show stuff, so watched it at 5am
I've been very naughty and not kept up with it actually... anything worth me checking out specifically?
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tehFrance
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#9138
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#9138
(Original post by Rakas21)
Streamed it (illegally of course) once i woke up.

Not the best written (too many climatic storylines) but several of the arcs were executed perfectly.

Best episode of the series was at Hardhome though when the Whites attacked.
Get Sling TV and a DNS (most are free, or you can keep reusing the trial), pay $35 a month or $40 with additional sports channels and be happy with the legal side

Also much simpler
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Jammy Duel
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#9139
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#9139
(Original post by mobbsy91)
I've been very naughty and not kept up with it actually... anything worth me checking out specifically?
New Nintendo stuff I didn't watch
New DOOM
More fallout stuff
Fallout game for mobile
Elder scrolls hearth stone rip off
More stuff coming for ESO
Dishonoured 2

The big players aren't until later, tonight we get M$, EA, Ubi****, not sure when Sony and cod are.

There is a thread in the grabbing sub forum

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Tanqueray91
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#9140
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#9140
(Original post by Jammy Duel)
New Nintendo stuff I didn't watch
New DOOM
More fallout stuff
Fallout game for mobile
Elder scrolls hearth stone rip off
More stuff coming for ESO
Dishonoured 2

The big players aren't until later, tonight we get M$, EA, Ubi****, not sure when Sony and cod are.

There is a thread in the grabbing sub forum

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Ahhh ok, will try and at least check some of that out! Cheers
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