Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing? Watch

Poll: Should Scotland be an independent country?
YES (299)
32.12%
NO (632)
67.88%
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Midlander
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#9141
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#9141
(Original post by Boab)
No idea. Best to average them all together imho.

A quick browse suggests women are oversampled.
Would like to know how you actually get polled for these things-I never have been and I don't know anybody who has.
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MatureStudent36
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#9142
(Original post by Boab)
Possibly because YouGov has consistently had NO well ahead.

YouGov has had NO on 52 or 53 in each of their last 7 polls.
Even the SNP polls have the no campaign well ahead.
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MatureStudent36
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(Original post by Midlander)
Would like to know how you actually get polled for these things-I never have been and I don't know anybody who has.
It's normally done randomly using the electoral register or something similar and a phone call from a polling agency.

panelbase do it on line and you register to vote. But that has its own problems as demonstrated here.

http://m.scotsman.com/news/politics/...olls-1-3080830
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Midlander
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(Original post by MatureStudent36)
It's normally done randomly using the electoral register or something similar and a phone call from a polling agency.

panelbase do it on line and you register to vote. But that has its own problems as demonstrated here.

http://m.scotsman.com/news/politics/...olls-1-3080830
I see today that Alex Salmond has been quoted in an interview referring to Scotland as a 'nation of drunks'. Had David Cameron said this he would be crucified but I expect Salmond to get off like he usually does.
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MatureStudent36
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(Original post by Midlander)
I see today that Alex Salmond has been quoted in an interview referring to Scotland as a 'nation of drunks'. Had David Cameron said this he would be crucified but I expect Salmond to get off like he usually does.
Haven't you heard, it's all westminsters fault.

No ownership. No responsibility.
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Quady
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(Original post by MatureStudent36)
Yet ironically wit further devolution already happening, the SNP have removed many powers from councils and centralised power at Holyrood.

Funny that. Didn't we have a devolved government set up a few years ago.

The opposite of what you've said is actually the case.
And councils haven't devolved power down power either.

This was a key theame at the 'bigindydebate' last night in Glasgow. But still circles down to whether you agree with the current administrations or not, at least they have the ability to decentralise power on those matters. On tax and a third of public spending (aka welfare) Scotland currently doesn't have the power to either manage centrally, nor localise power.
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Quady
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(Original post by Good bloke)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-27247870

The truth over iScotland's likely credit rating is out. I wonder how long it will be before the SNP accuses Moody's of bullying.
tbh I think this will work in the Yes campaigns favour.

They rated Scotland as an A.

To the man on the street thats pretty darn good. Credit Rated A.

Hell the whole UK is only Aa1.

Most people won't even know what the current UK rating is, let alone there are sub ratings.

Also it blows a bit of a hole in the BT arguement that Scotland would have 'no' credit rating. Its ahead of Russia and a miniture smidge behind China and Belgium.
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flugelr
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(Original post by Quady)
Also it blows a bit of a hole in the BT arguement that Scotland would have 'no' credit rating. Its ahead of Russia and a miniture smidge behind China and Belgium.
I don't think BT has ever said we'd have no credit rating (is that even possible), but they have said that our credit rating would be worse than the one we enjoy as part of the UK.
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MatureStudent36
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(Original post by Quady)
tbh I think this will work in the Yes campaigns favour.

They rated Scotland as an A.

To the man on the street thats pretty darn good. Credit Rated A.

Hell the whole UK is only Aa1.

Most people won't even know what the current UK rating is, let alone there are sub ratings.

Also it blows a bit of a hole in the BT arguement that Scotland would have 'no' credit rating. Its ahead of Russia and a miniture smidge behind China and Belgium.
It means borrowing money, which we'll have to, will be significantly more expensive.

There's many factors involved in the cost of borrowing. One is the credit rating, but the other is the size of the economy.

Although the UK did get downgraded to AA1, it was still paying less interest on its loans than Norway who maintained its aAA rating.

Only an economic illeterate would have difficulty understanding how damaging increasing borrowing costs would be. Not helped if Salmond continues to claim to refuse any debt.

youre right in saying that most people won't understand it. But quite a few do, and those people are worried about it.

Ignorance of a problem isn't a defence. I can forgive people on here not getting it, but it worried me that the YeSNP leaders either don't get it, or are deliberately misleading is on it.
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MatureStudent36
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(Original post by flugelr)
I don't think BT has ever said we'd have no credit rating (is that even possible), but they have said that our credit rating would be worse than the one we enjoy as part of the UK.
You're right. It's never been said we wouldn't have one. Everybody has a credit rating.
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Midlander
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(Original post by MatureStudent36)
You're right. It's never been said we wouldn't have one. Everybody has a credit rating.
Just like Salmond deliberately misquoting Osborne on currency.


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MatureStudent36
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(Original post by Midlander)
Just like Salmond deliberately misquoting Osborne on currency.


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I was more worried about the SNPs press release saying that Standard & Poor said we'd still maintain a AAA credit rating when the actual report said nothing of the sort.

I know politicians spin things and interpret things which ever way suits them, but the blatantly make stuff up is unforgivable.
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Quady
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(Original post by flugelr)
I don't think BT has ever said we'd have no credit rating (is that even possible), but they have said that our credit rating would be worse than the one we enjoy as part of the UK.
From memory I think what I saw was that 'scotland has no credit record'. The implication being Scotland would have very low, junk status, BB or BBB or something like that.

If I still have the leaflet I'll be able to quote it.
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Midlander
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(Original post by MatureStudent36)
I was more worried about the SNPs press release saying that Standard & Poor said we'd still maintain a AAA credit rating when the actual report said nothing of the sort.

I know politicians spin things and interpret things which ever way suits them, but the blatantly make stuff up is unforgivable.
I swear no other party gets as easy a ride as they do.


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Midlander
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(Original post by Quady)
From memory I think what I saw was that 'scotland has no credit record'. The implication being Scotland would have very low, junk status, BB or BBB or something like that.

If I still have the leaflet I'll be able to quote it.
Well technically it doesn't have one because it isn't a sovereign state.


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Quady
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(Original post by MatureStudent36)
It means borrowing money, which we'll have to, will be significantly more expensive.

There's many factors involved in the cost of borrowing. One is the credit rating, but the other is the size of the economy.

Although the UK did get downgraded to AA1, it was still paying less interest on its loans than Norway who maintained its aAA rating.

Only an economic illeterate would have difficulty understanding how damaging increasing borrowing costs would be. Not helped if Salmond continues to claim to refuse any debt.

youre right in saying that most people won't understand it. But quite a few do, and those people are worried about it.

Ignorance of a problem isn't a defence. I can forgive people on here not getting it, but it worried me that the YeSNP leaders either don't get it, or are deliberately misleading is on it.
A few points. Your third sentence contradicts your first. The market sets prices not the rating agencies.

OK I'm an economic illiterate then. I don't think Scotland paying (say) 4% on bonds as opposed to 2.6% (at todays yeilds) is much of a big deal, its still cheap money, cheaper than the UK was paying less than a decade ago. In anycase it would only apply to new borrowing.

If Scotland refuses debt I don't think the markets would see that as a problem, they care about being paid back on new loans, not having the existing debt make the risk of default lower. They won't refuse the debt anyway as the UK would then not cooperate and Scotland would have to do a UDI which aint happening.

The people who understand and are worried have most likely already made up their minds firmly (IMHO). So in many ways it wouldn't matter much.

I don't think YeSNP are misleading anyone, just not mentioning it. In a similar way BT aren't mentioning Universal Credit.
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Quady
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(Original post by Midlander)
Well technically it doesn't have one because it isn't a sovereign state.


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You don't say....

I don't think pedentary is going to win many votes...
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Midlander
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(Original post by Quady)
You don't say....

I don't think pedentary is going to win many votes...
It's not pedantry when the phrasing totally changes the meaning of the statement. 'Scotland doesn't have a credit rating' does not mean 'Scotland won't have a credit rating'.


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Boab
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(Original post by Midlander)
I swear no other party gets as easy a ride as they do.Posted from TSR Mobile
Yet every national paper in Scotland is pro-Union bar the Herald and obviously every London based paper is likewise.

Something doesn't add up here!

Name:  mailputin.jpg
Views: 49
Size:  134.4 KB

Maybe your imagination is running wild again?!
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Midlander
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#9160
(Original post by Boab)
Yet every national paper in Scotland is pro-Union bar the Herald and obviously every London based paper is likewise.

Something doesn't add up here!

Name:  mailputin.jpg
Views: 49
Size:  134.4 KB

Maybe your imagination is running wild again?!
You assume every London based paper is pro Union? I wasn't aware Salmond had endorsed what Putin's up to, though a combination of that and calling Scotland a nation of drunks is such a gift to the No campaign you'd think Salmond's a unionist as well.
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