The Classics Society Mk II Watch

faber niger
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#901
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#901
(Original post by lilyfern)
:lurk:

Hello strangers... :hi:

I haven't been on TSR in forever because I thought that the Soc had died when the old thread died. I just found this thread this evening.
Hi there, I'm a grizzled, wizened old-timer, I remember you!

How are your scientific endeavours going?

(Original post by big-bang-theory)
Classics shall never die!
Time is a sort of river of passing events, and strong is its current; no sooner is a thing brought to sight than it is swept by and another takes its place, and this too will be swept away in its turn. (Marcus Aurelius) :emo:
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The Lyceum
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#902
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#902
(Original post by jismith1989)
Hi there, I'm a grizzled, wizened old-timer, I remember you!

How are your scientific endeavours going?

Time is a sort of river of passing events, and strong is its current; no sooner is a thing brought to sight than it is swept by and another takes its place, and this too will be swept away in its turn. (Marcus Aurelius) :emo:
I like big butts, I lie frequently - Heraklitos.
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faber niger
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#903
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#903
(Original post by The Lyceum)
I like big butts, I lie frequently - Heraklitos.
You shouldn't pass your own sentiments off as ancient quotations, you know. :hmmm:
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The Lyceum
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#904
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#904
(Original post by GameGod)
Just going to jump in here.

So, does anyone know how to just grab a piece of Latin or Ancient Greek Literature and read it fluently, i.e. comfortably quickly and technically accurately? Is anyone here at that level?

I myself am a long way off that standard for either of the two languages, though I can usually translate pretty much any Literature text at a rate of about two minutes for 10 lines with technical perfection (because my knowledge of vocab and grammar and ability to work out word order is pretty complete, but I haven't reached that final step of being able to work out the sentences quickly and fluently). I am, however, able to read Sanskrit fluently (including any Literature).

So, does anyone have any tips which might help me go from being able to work my way through Latin literature (albeit perfectly accurate, not too literal and reasonably fast as far as working one's way through goes) to being able to kick up the speed and comfort to the level where I can peruse the texts? Like I said, I'm not too far behind.
You know Sanskrit fluently? Interesting, I was going to try my hand at some now but it's been a few years lol.

Sappho was right by the way, just keep reading. Also read widely, from high literature to colloquial grafitti, that's the key.

Also this idea of "perfection" is nonsense: I was bored the other day in my hotel so I just picked up and read through the first book of the Ephesiaka in Greek without stopping, I got almost an entire book through Tacitus without being troubled to take a lexicon, I often write poetry in either tongue so I guess I fit your bill for reading/writing ease.

Would I say I'm perfectly accurate? No, neither were many of the native speakers when it comes to most of our extant literature, hence the extant scholiae. Attempting to get a "perfect" grasp is counter-productive since you won't get a proper handle on the registers of each language. You're not going to be able to pick up and read every text of the top of your head, well you could with a lot of practice but would you ever understand the significance of why author X choose verb y over z? That's Philology.

So, my suggestions: Read widely, across as many different registers as you can. Even if you don't like it. I hate Plato, Aristotle and all that but reading the often, slightly, more colloquial writings certainly help me get a better grasp of Homer, Hesiod and the Hymns.

Suggestion number two: Compose, start with small sentences in order to really understand constructions and vocab, then work your way up. Do this via some of the old public domain textbooks, they're better.

Number three: Patience. You can read Sanskrit fluently, Greek and Latin will yield themselves to you with very little struggle, especially considering where you are now.
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The Lyceum
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#905
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#905
(Original post by jismith1989)
You shouldn't pass your own sentiments off as ancient quotations, you know. :hmmm:
What do you think half the sayings of Solon were?
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Mike Hunt is nice
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#906
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#906
(Original post by Aemiliana)
I'm doing ancient history at Manchester. When I applied I had accc in biology, chemistry, maths and German. I got 3 offers (Manchester, Cardiff and Birmingham) and took history in a year to meet (and to get) my offers. It's possible. Maybe consider another A level or AS level just to boost your chances? I did already have German.
Oh really, i don't want to impose, but what were the offers like?
I really want to go to KCL or warwick as they are renound for they're departments of classics!
Is it possible, i'm finding A levels quite hard already
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big-bang-theory
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#907
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#907
(Original post by Mike Hunt is nice)
Oh really, i don't want to impose, but what were the offers like?
I really want to go to KCL or warwick as they are renound for they're departments of classics!
Is it possible, i'm finding A levels quite hard already
The Warwick offer is actually surprisingly low for Classics. AAB and an AS level C or something.
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Aemiliana
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#908
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#908
(Original post by Mike Hunt is nice)
Oh really, i don't want to impose, but what were the offers like?
I really want to go to KCL or warwick as they are renound for they're departments of classics!
Is it possible, i'm finding A levels quite hard already
Manchester & Birmingham (latter *******s raised their offer for my year): ABB
Cardiff: BBB

Here at Manchester people seem pretty in awe of Edinburgh's department too.

Yes, just work. I got a pretty high A in a year with only half a year of teaching (I was ill and removed from classes sort of Jan/Feb onwards) by working in the library all day and refusing to give in. Just keep going, keep working, one tired foot in front of the other and you'll get there.
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Mike Hunt is nice
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#909
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#909
(Original post by big-bang-theory)
The Warwick offer is actually surprisingly low for Classics. AAB and an AS level C or something.
Low? hah, tsr nerds :P
Nah, i really want to go into investment banking :P is it hard to get an offer at warwick, would i be able to get in with AAB if i was predicted it, or would i need higher?
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Mike Hunt is nice
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#910
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#910
(Original post by Aemiliana)
Manchester & Birmingham (latter *******s raised their offer for my year): ABB
Cardiff: BBB

Here at Manchester people seem pretty in awe of Edinburgh's department too.

Yes, just work. I got a pretty high A in a year with only half a year of teaching (I was ill and removed from classes sort of Jan/Feb onwards) by working in the library all day and refusing to give in. Just keep going, keep working, one tired foot in front of the other and you'll get there.
Yess, or even St Andrews i would love to go to!
umm manchesters relly good though?
I cant stand english as a subject but love greek mythology, is it for me?
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Aemiliana
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#911
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#911
(Original post by Mike Hunt is nice)
Yess, or even St Andrews i would love to go to!
umm manchesters relly good though?
I cant stand english as a subject but love greek mythology, is it for me?
Manchester has a fair few Edinburgh rejects Or at least one of my seminar groups did!

Hmm, classics will require you to analyse texts (something I love because I'm a ***** and love ripping the **** out of that sort of stuff). It's kind of like English in that you have to look at literature and discuss it.

Which classics degree would you be applying for? Classics, Latin, Greek, classical studies, ancient history etc etc etc?
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big-bang-theory
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#912
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#912
(Original post by Mike Hunt is nice)
Low? hah, tsr nerds :P
Nah, i really want to go into investment banking :P is it hard to get an offer at warwick, would i be able to get in with AAB if i was predicted it, or would i need higher?
Not objectively low, but considering it's a top ten university in a course which is reasonably rare across universities as a whole and according to the Times one of the universities with the highest admissions policies as a whole, that is quite low.

With a decent personal statement you'd be in for as good a shot as anyone else. Your predicted grades are their offer so they definitely wouldn't hold it against you.
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Aemiliana
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#913
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#913
*cough*Use the PS help service*cough*
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big-bang-theory
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#914
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#914
(Original post by Aemiliana)
*cough*Use the PS help service*cough*
They're all prettyful and amazing people.
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Aemiliana
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#915
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#915
(Original post by big-bang-theory)
They're all prettyful and amazing people.
Damn straight they are :awesome:

Although we seem to have a classics and history helper crisis at the moment (not that this is at all a hint to those at uni studying either of these... :ninja:).
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big-bang-theory
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#916
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#916
(Original post by Aemiliana)
Damn straight they are :awesome:

Although we seem to have a classics and history helper crisis at the moment (not that this is at all a hint to those at uni studying either of these... :ninja:).
I plan on joining once I actually get as far as uni (so I can big them up now whilst seeming modest only to ultimately be bigging myself up in the long run, cunning eh? )
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Aemiliana
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#917
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#917
(Original post by big-bang-theory)
I plan on joining once I actually get as far as uni (so I can big them up now whilst seeming modest only to ultimately be bigging myself up in the long run, cunning eh? )
What stage are you at with your application? I've forgotten Very cunning
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GameGod
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#918
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#918
(Original post by The Lyceum)
You know Sanskrit fluently? Interesting, I was going to try my hand at some now but it's been a few years lol.
Good luck if ever you choose to try it! I would be happy to help at any step along the way if I could.

(Original post by The Lyceum)
Sappho was right by the way, just keep reading. Also read widely, from high literature to colloquial grafitti, that's the key.

Also this idea of "perfection" is nonsense: I was bored the other day in my hotel so I just picked up and read through the first book of the Ephesiaka in Greek without stopping, I got almost an entire book through Tacitus without being troubled to take a lexicon, I often write poetry in either tongue so I guess I fit your bill for reading/writing ease.
When I said "perfection", I meant the ability to grasp the gist of each sentence correctly. I have, up to this point, worked in a high level of "the schoolboy" mould: one where it is better to spend 10 seconds on a line of literature with careful concentration and get it completely correct (correct word order, correct meanings for every word, correct grammar and cases, and a fluent translation in the end) than to enjoy it by spending only a few seconds on the line and just picking up the gist of it. I guess this is what you're suggesting to take me the final step to fluency?

(Original post by The Lyceum)
Would I say I'm perfectly accurate? No, neither were many of the native speakers when it comes to most of our extant literature, hence the extant scholiae. Attempting to get a "perfect" grasp is counter-productive since you won't get a proper handle on the registers of each language. You're not going to be able to pick up and read every text of the top of your head, well you could with a lot of practice but would you ever understand the significance of why author X choose verb y over z? That's Philology.
I can already pick up all the different texts of Literature that I've seen (admittedly, not that many) in Latin and translate them. If I pay careful attention, I don't make any mistakes, except with the occassional words I don't know. This applies to Vergil, Cicero, Ovid, Tacitus, Pliny, Catullus, Horace, Sulpicia, Avianus (only the Fables - I'm not sure if there are any others), Petronius, Flaccus and Quintilian. I'm not quite sure what you mean by different registers; all of them seem to be readable in the same way (in terms of translation, at least, as opposed to fluent reading). There are differences, but I can still apply the same normal method of translation and get through them all. Of course, I don't even really enjoy the stuff when I translate it (which, I think, may be the problem), much less understanding why the authors chose the words they did (my only knowledge in this realm comes from my study of GCSE and A-Level Literature for Latin).
My knowledge and understanding of the language is sufficient for me to be able to translate every sentence (nearly always without needing to look up vocab) completely correctly in about 10 seconds, and yet I can't actually calm down, read them and enjoy for fun.

(Original post by The Lyceum)
So, my suggestions: Read widely, across as many different registers as you can. Even if you don't like it. I hate Plato, Aristotle and all that but reading the often, slightly, more colloquial writings certainly help me get a better grasp of Homer, Hesiod and the Hymns.
Thank you. I will read more Latin literature. In a way, I understand what you're saying about the registers, though I've never thought about it before.

As far as Classical Greek is concerned, my grasp is far weaker - though I know all the vocabulary I have ever covered, as well as the grammar, and I can work out most word orders, the highest level of practice I've ever done in translation is the A2 Language papers for Classical Greek.

(Original post by The Lyceum)
Suggestion number two: Compose, start with small sentences in order to really understand constructions and vocab, then work your way up. Do this via some of the old public domain textbooks, they're better.
My knowledge of grammar, constructions and vocab is pretty much textbook-perfect. I've done A2-level English to Latin, but it was pretty easy. Would you recommend any particular textbooks for this sort of thing (higher level English to Latin)? Also, would you advocate learning to speak/listen to Latin?

(Original post by The Lyceum)
Number three: Patience. You can read Sanskrit fluently, Greek and Latin will yield themselves to you with very little struggle, especially considering where you are now.
I certainly hope so! Thank you for all the advice.
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big-bang-theory
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#919
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#919
(Original post by Aemiliana)
What stage are you at with your application? I've forgotten Very cunning
I start in October.
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Aesc
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#920
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#920
(Original post by Aemiliana)
*cough*Use the PS help service*cough*
Remind me how I do that? I think I'm just about finished.
And did you say I might have trouble (I think the word was "crisis") for a straight Classics PS rather than, say, Class Civ or Anc Hist?
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