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geokinkladze
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#901
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#901
(Original post by Jammy Duel)
I propose you go and look at the population distribution of the UK, according to the 2011 census you are VERY wrong, for England and Wales
Not really, as long as you know what City constituencies are. I mean you aren't counting those stretches BETWEEN the cities as Cities are you?

(Original post by Jammy Duel)
I assume that's going to be Greater London, the West Midlands Conurbation and Greater Manchester, and I think maybe the West Yorkshire Urban Area, possibly Liverpool built up area too) as live in rural areas.
Oh, yes you are. You probably don't know the difference between an area like Greater Manchester and something like " Liverpool built up area too". By that do you mean Merseyside?

Let's face it.. you know sweet FA about the north, little about the history of labour and because of this you mange to go and confuse towns like Wigan & Leigh (in Greater Manchester, not Manchester) with cities like Manchester and Liverpool.
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DIN-NARYU-FARORE
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(Original post by geokinkladze)
Que? Reasons such as?
if an idiot were to say the army (im completely for women serving on the frontline) sexual discrimination could ostensibly be justified through physical strength differences.
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geokinkladze
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#903
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(Original post by Jammy Duel)
What were you saying? Almost twice as many people live in Major conurbations (I assume that's going to be Greater London, the West Midlands Conurbation and Greater Manchester, and I think maybe the West Yorkshire Urban Area, possibly Liverpool built up area too) as live in rural areas.
I'll say it again and this time, hopefully, you will read my actual words. I'll tell you what I'll help you by highlighting important phrases so you don't get them wrong.

if you count up votes from city constituencies vs those from non-city constituencies you'll find the non-cities outnumber the cities

According to the UK definition of a city...City population is approximately 15million people. Liverpool, Manchester, Birmingham are cities. Greater Manchester, Merseyside, the West Midlands are not.
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geokinkladze
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(Original post by DIN-NARYU-FARORE)
if an idiot were to say the army (im completely for women serving on the frontline) sexual discrimination could ostensibly be justified through physical strength differences.
Ok I understand that. So if this hypothetical idiot were instead to say the army should have more women (say close to 50%) and there were only 10% women, would you say this person was reasonable to disqualify men from joining the army? Or would that be discrimination?
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Jammy Duel
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(Original post by geokinkladze)
I'll say it again and this time, hopefully, you will read my actual words. I'll tell you what I'll help you by highlighting important phrases so you don't get them wrong.

if you count up votes from city constituencies vs those from non-city constituencies you'll find the non-cities outnumber the cities

According to the UK definition of a city...City population is approximately 15million people. Liverpool, Manchester, Birmingham are cities. Greater Manchester, Merseyside, the West Midlands are not.
Have you considered that maybe I was doing other things between your two comments?
And I suggest you stop being so pedantic purely for the sake of argument, yes, strictly the city population is only about 15m, but with the word "city" being used more losely and as intended it you get nearly half the population of the country
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geokinkladze
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#906
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(Original post by Jammy Duel)
Have you considered that maybe I was doing other things between your two comments?
There was a lot to read, merely helping you see where you went wrong.


(Original post by Jammy Duel)
And I suggest you stop being so pedantic purely for the sake of argument, yes, strictly the city population is only about 15m, but with the word "city" being used more losely and as intended it you get nearly half the population of the country
So in a roundabout way, you admit I was right, but have to taint it by saying I was being pedantic.

No you were the one who brought up cities, not me. Also I gave my idea of what a city is when I said:

"So you think the heartlands are cities? So in between Liverpool and Manchester.. in the areas commonly referred to as Merseyside, Lancashire and Greater Manchester. The people that live in those (non city) areas, why do they historically vote Labour?"

You see, I wasn't being pedantic, I don't know anybody who would ever consider Merseyside, Greater Manchester and Lancashire as Cities, not even in the loosest definition of the word. Yet it seems you do.

Oh and by the way, that 15m claim i used is based on the technical definition. If you think adding some "flexibility" based on population size would increase that number then don't forget that number also includes such cities as St Davids, population 1841. You can't get any looser than that.
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billydisco
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#907
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#907
(Original post by Jammy Duel)
The problem isn't that, it's that to change the rules requires unanimous support, and the Eastern Europeans won't agree to changing the rules.
Thats what I said...

The EU isn't going to allow it.

Its absolutely sick what has happened. The area I grew up in has now become an Eastern European ghetto. There's no French, Spanish, Italians, Germans- because those countries arent too bad. Its full of Lithuanians, Latvians, Romanians, Slovakians- pretty much every ****ing ****hole.

If every person from country X moved to country Y, then country Y will begin to resemble country X and I don't fancy England resembling Slovakia!
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geokinkladze
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#908
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(Original post by Jammy Duel)
The problem isn't that, it's that to change the rules requires unanimous support, and the Eastern Europeans won't agree to changing the rules.

You are failing to grasp what he is saying. He is saying that the Tories promise of a referendum is based on the EU agreeing to reforms. The reforms he would like to see, the EU would never agree to. Therefore he wants out.

You see, with people like that there's no pussyfooting about. In or out, stop f%$^!ng about.
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geokinkladze
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#909
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(Original post by billydisco)
If every person from country X moved to country Y, then country Y will begin to resemble country X and I don't fancy England resembling Slovakia!
There's a wider concern. The whole motivation behind the formation of the EU was the post 2nd world war "let's never have this again" mantra. Their real scapegoat was nationalism which in their view is where you head to if you don't nip patriotism in the bud. If you want to stop nationalism, cut out patriotism. If you want to cut out patriotism, make every nation homogeneous.

You see it's not an accident, it is a deliberate attempt at stopping a repeat of the second world war by cutting peoples ties to their nationhood.
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billydisco
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#910
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#910
(Original post by geokinkladze)
You are failing to grasp what he is saying. He is saying that the Tories promise of a referendum is based on the EU agreeing to reforms. The reforms he would like to see, the EU would never agree to. Therefore he wants out.
Not quite. The Tories promise of a referendum is based on the EU not reforming.

What'll piss me off is if they agree to pointless stuff, yet still denying us a referendum.

I want my country back and I want all these unskilled immigrants to return where they came from. Unskilled ones ARENT beneficial to this country, they increase our population, increase the demand on our infrastructure, generally earn low wages etc. A total waste of our space.
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billydisco
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#911
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(Original post by geokinkladze)
There's a wider concern. The whole motivation behind the formation of the EU was the post 2nd world war "let's never have this again" mantra. Their real scapegoat was nationalism which in their view is where you head to if you don't nip patriotism in the bud. If you want to stop nationalism, cut out patriotism. If you want to cut out patriotism, make every nation homogeneous.

You see it's not an accident, it is a deliberate attempt at stopping a repeat of the second world war by cutting peoples ties to their nationhood.
Agreed, plus I think the Euro hatred of Britain's right-wing history/aristocracy. Its why Labour are so pro-EU, they support anything which eradicates any remaining right-wing, aristocratic part of Britain. Fill the country with young left-wing immigrants who would be opposed to anything traditionally British.

You only have to visit London these days to see what Labour want to make the whole of Britain resemble- a ****ing ****hole.
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falseeagle2
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#912
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#912
They're bad bro
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Misovlogos
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#913
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#913
(Original post by billydisco)
If every person from country X moved to country Y, then country Y will begin to resemble country X and I don't fancy England resembling Slovakia!
Well, no such event is conceivable in the actually existing world, and to pretend otherwise is a glib rhetorical flourish. If arguments could turn on logical possibility alone, one could say very many ridiculous things.


(Original post by billydisco)
I want my country back and I want all these unskilled immigrants to return where they came from. Unskilled ones ARENT beneficial to this country, they increase our population, increase the demand on our infrastructure, generally earn low wages etc. A total waste of our space.
This begs the question, namely, that you have a normatively prior claim to residence in the UK. I don't think this, or the contrary, is anything but a normative or emotive disposition, but in that being the case, you might at least be a little self-reflexive - it's just crude nationalism, not considered judgement.
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geokinkladze
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#914
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#914
(Original post by billydisco)
Not quite. The Tories promise of a referendum is based on the EU not reforming.
No, you need to learn politico speak. The conservatives have promised to renegotiate our relationship with the EU, AND THEN seek the will of the people in a referendum. What this means is that if he can't renegotiate, then technically speaking he has a "get out" of avoiding a referendum. It's weak I know but that is why many people believe the Tories won't offer a referendum in the next term.
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billydisco
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#915
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#915
(Original post by geokinkladze)
No, you need to learn politico speak. The conservatives have promised to renegotiate our relationship with the EU, AND THEN seek the will of the people in a referendum. What this means is that if he can't renegotiate, then technically speaking he has a "get out" of avoiding a referendum. It's weak I know but that is why many people believe the Tories won't offer a referendum in the next term.
No. They have said they will first try and negotiate to get what we want, if they do not get what we want, then its a referendum.

What the **** is the point of having a referendum if you just got the negotiations you wanted???
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billydisco
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(Original post by Misovlogos)
Well, no such event is conceivable in the actually existing world, and to pretend otherwise is a glib rhetorical flourish. If arguments could turn on logical possibility alone, one could say very many ridiculous things.
Areas don't suddenly change due to immigration? Ever visited Bradford or Tower Hamlets?


(Original post by Misovlogos)
This begs the question, namely, that you have a normatively prior claim to residence in the UK. I don't think this, or the contrary, is anything but a normative or emotive disposition, but in that being the case, you might at least be a little self-reflexive - it's just crude nationalism, not considered judgement.
So you're one of those *****s who think every one of the the 6 billion people in the world has the right to move to the UK if they so wish?

Oh, got to laugh at lefties..... or people trying to be smart using stupid phrases.
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Pro Crastination
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#917
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I thought they were bad. Then one of them came in to my uni to do a panel debate and said we need to move away from gaining our taxation income from income tax (progressive) [by moving the top bad down to 40p] and instead become more reliant on indirect taxes (regressive) in order to give people 'a greater choice' in how they are spending their money. Now, even aside from the economically destructive immigration policies, their equally economically destructive taxation policies make me think they are really bad.

(Note: I don't know if this was just his perspective or the party line, but it's still at best economically stupid, at worst a cruel tax hike on the poorest in society and an unfair tax cut for every pound earned over £150,000.)

The one thing good I do hope to come out of UKIP: when they get three or four seats in the General Election and there is a massive outcry about 'democratic deficiency' that they (as Conservatives) didn't seem too fussed about a few years ago, there will be a renewed push for a more proportionally representative electoral system. FPTP can't even deliver its 'strong mandate majorities' (its supposed USP) any longer, hopefully we can do away with it for 2020.
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Pro Crastination
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#918
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#918
(Original post by plstudent)
It's long due white men begin standing up for our own interests.
LOL. Because white, middle aged, middle class men are just so underrepresented in our Parliament, in our professions... I could go on.

What the **** is a 'white' interest anyway?
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InnerTemple
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#919
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#919
(Original post by billydisco)
Whilst it was fine for Labour to amend laws so ethnic minorities could be favoured over whites/British applicants, without it being classed as discrimination?

Discrimination is illegal- oh unless its to ****-over white, British people..... then we'll call it "positive discrimination" because its positive for natives of a country to be overlooked for jobs..... :rolleyes:
Well there are only certain circumstances when positive action can come into play. It was not, as some would have you believe, a case of someone who was disabled or from a minority background having an automatic advantage.

In any event, this is about getting rid of anti discrimination laws altogether. Even if you disagree with positive action, you do not need to eradicate discrimination laws altogether.
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Misovlogos
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#920
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#920
(Original post by billydisco)
Areas don't suddenly change due to immigration? Ever visited Bradford or Tower Hamlets?
You said:

"If every person from country X moved to country Y, then country Y will begin to resemble country X and I don't fancy England resembling Slovakia!"

To which my statement applied.

(Original post by billydisco)
So you're one of those *****s who think every one of the the 6 billion people in the world has the right to move to the UK if they so wish?

Oh, got to laugh at lefties..... or people trying to be smart using stupid phrases.
No, I'm saying your claims have an epistemic burden, which emotional declarations of nationalism don't satisfy. If you cannot even attempt to justify your views, why do you think others should observe them?
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