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    Sir Henry Norris (Businessman)

    Interesting fact, this Arsenal legend was actually involved in the creation of Chelsea Football Club. "He is particularly notorious for his alleged role in Arsenal's promotion to the top flight in 1919, despite them only finishing fifth in the Second Division."Chairmanship of Arsenal FCIn 1910,

    Norris became the majority shareholder of the ailing Woolwich Arsenal (after the club had gone into voluntary liquidation) while still retaining his post on the Fulham board, and became club chairman two years later. With Arsenal's low attendances and poor financial performance, Norris tried to create a London superclub by merging the two clubs, but this was blocked by the Football League.[6]

    Undeterred, he turned his attention to moving Arsenal to a new stadium; he eventually settled on a site in Highbury, north London, on the site of the recreation ground of St John's College of Divinity; his close relationship with Randall Davidson helped, and the archbishop personally signed the ground's title deed.[7] The Arsenal Stadium opened in 1913, and the club dropped the Woolwich from its name the following year.Norris's most infamous contribution to Arsenal's history was his role in the club's promotion from the Second Division to the First in 1919.

    Arsenal were elected to the top flight in spite of only finishing fifth the previous season (1914-15, as competition had been suspended for most of World War I). This promotion came at the expense of other clubs, most notably Arsenal's arch-rivals Tottenham Hotspur. It has been alleged that Norris bribed or in some way unduly influenced the voting members of the Football League, in particular the league chairman and owner of Liverpool, John McKenna, at the League's AGM, McKenna made a speech recommending Arsenal's promotion ahead of Spurs thanks to the former's longer spell in the League (Arsenal joined in 1893, Spurs in 1908. Although Preston North End & Wolves, who both finished ahead of Arsenal, had been members of the league longer than Arsenal, Wolves since its inception in 1888.[8]

    Although no firm proof has ever been offered, Norris's other activities, including the scandal that led to his downfall, are often cited as circumstantial evidence. Some claim that Norris 'bribed' McKenna, although this is pure speculation. Probably more likely is that he lobbied McKenna, who fearful of Norris exposing the corruption in the league at the time (Utd and Liverpool were accused of fixing the last game of the season) yielded to Norris's request to promote Arsenal to Division 1 based on their longer spell in the league and their professional status.Not even Arsenal's own website tries to hide it:

    Arsenal's rivalry with Tottenham Hotspur is one of geographical location and football history. One particular decision in 1919 did little to bond the two clubs.Having finished only fifth in the Second Division in the final season before the First World War (1914/15), Arsenal were expected to remain in the second tier when the league resumed in 1919. However, this was not the case; Arsenal were elected to the top flight - at the expense of Tottenham.

    The First Division was extended by two teams to 22 and tradition suggested the bottom two clubs from the previous season (1914/15) would be re-elected and joined by the top two teams from the Second DivisionHowever, Arsenal chairman Henry Norris, the man responsible for moving the Club to Highbury in 1913, is said to have engineered the Gunners' unexpected promotion. Norris, who rescued the Club from voluntary liquidation in 1910, is alleged to have 'influenced' the league chairman and owner of Liverpool, John McKenna.McKenna made a speech to the election committee at the Football League's Annual General Meeting recommending Arsenal's promotion ahead of their arch rivals.

    His speech concluded that Arsenal deserved a higher standing having joined the Football League in 1893, 15 years before Spurs.
    The Gunners won the election by 10 votes.Norris never moved to confirm or deny the allegations before his death in 1934 and to this day the rumour remains part of footballing folklore
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    TL ; DR: Sir Henry Norris would put Sepp Blatter to shame

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    tl;dr you don't know what you're talking about and you're clutching.
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    (Original post by midnightice)
    tl;dr you don't know what you're talking about and you're clutching.
    And why is that?
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    Salt is real from both sides.
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    This thread is always a mess
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    (Original post by Dirtybit)
    This thread is always a mess
    I wasn't even around this time.
    But yeah I'm the problem...

    #stillsalty
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    (Original post by alex5134)
    I wasn't even around this time.
    But yeah I'm the problem...

    #stillsalty
    Don't you have a phd in thread derailing?
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    lol didnt read, key word allegedly btw, also look up burden of proof and guilt beyond reasonable doubt.

    Absolutely zero proof that Norris paid anyone off throughout that vote, countless investigations have been made with no concrete proof despite revealing other things about Norris' past. The fact that no one has even come out about it, not even a little bit, over the years should be revealing enough especially given the number of chances people had to speak up about the occurrence, the fact that alleged teams that he approached didnt speak out after voting for other teams, that he didnt get called out after shouting match fixing on other games during that period, that he didnt just reveal it when he died. The only people who even care about this conspiracy theory are Tottenham fans because they feel hard done by over that period (not surprisingly it was a spurs fan who started this b.s) not even Wolves or Birmingham fans give that much of a **** anymore.

    Its pretty much accepted that its extremely unlikely that Norris did anything illegal, we were lucky to achieve promotion I guess ahead of other teams who probably had a stronger right but it was done on what, currently, is seen as a clean fair vote, due to lack of evidence otherwise.
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    Also there are no primary sources to suggest Mckenna ever made a speech to support Arsenal, none of the papers at the time reported it at all despite reporting other speeches during the meeting. The Shed End
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    lel ok so I provide sources and info and you don't even bother looking at it? cool cool cool cool cool cool cool cool cool cool no doubt no doubt no doubt

    "extremely unlikely that Norris did anything illegal" - "currently seen as a clean fair vote" - the man was proven to be corrupt, and the last part is irrelevant. Officially it may be seen as somewhat 'clean', but then officially so are the Qatar and South Africa World Cup bids, and we know all's not right with them.

    One of the sources I linked/copy/pasted said that the head of the FA at the time accepted Norris' 'deal', because he didn't want match fixing allegations to come out.

    I wouldn't be surprised that Spurs fans would be upset about winning the league and promotion and then having the team that finished 5th leapfrog them. Also seemed to cut it off, but Arsenal were officially promoted on the basis that they had been a member of the FA the longest at the time, yet two other clubs, iirc Liverpool and Wolves, finished above them and had been members longer, Wolves since their inception, yet weren't invited to the First Division.

    Do the majority of Arsenal fans genuinely not know this, or just decide to ignore it to fit their narrative that the club is holier than thou and it's the teams that have been invested in in the last few years that are the only one's ethically corrupt?



    Here's a few straws for you to cling onto.
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    (Original post by The Shed End)
    lel ok so I provide sources and info and you don't even bother looking at it? cool cool cool cool cool cool cool cool cool cool no doubt no doubt no doubt


    Here's a few straws for you to cling onto.
    Wrong usage of it SMH
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    (Original post by AR_95)
    Wrong usage of it SMH
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    (Original post by The Shed End)
    lel ok so I provide sources and info and you don't even bother looking at it? cool cool cool cool cool cool cool cool cool cool no doubt no doubt no doubt

    "extremely unlikely that Norris did anything illegal" - "currently seen as a clean fair vote" - the man was proven to be corrupt, and the last part is irrelevant. Officially it may be seen as somewhat 'clean', but then officially so are the Qatar and South Africa World Cup bids, and we know all's not right with them.

    One of the sources I linked/copy/pasted said that the head of the FA at the time accepted Norris' 'deal', because he didn't want match fixing allegations to come out.

    I wouldn't be surprised that Spurs fans would be upset about winning the league and promotion and then having the team that finished 5th leapfrog them. Also seemed to cut it off, but Arsenal were officially promoted on the basis that they had been a member of the FA the longest at the time, yet two other clubs, iirc Liverpool and Wolves, finished above them and had been members longer, Wolves since their inception, yet weren't invited to the First Division.

    Do the majority of Arsenal fans genuinely not know this, or just decide to ignore it to fit their narrative that the club is holier than thou and it's the teams that have been invested in in the last few years that are the only one's ethically corrupt?
    you didnt even document where you got it from?? also im 95% sure you havent researched the subject other than that piece of text you no doubt copy pasta'd and use as your desktop screensaver.

    Ok so we on a level that you believe stuff without any form of clear proof? thats good, i'm sure the education system is overjoyed with that one. The man was proven to be corrupt and thoroughly investigated, with many books published which detailed his wrongdoings but not one shred of evidence came out about 1919? Does that not ring any bells for you? No doubt that there could be wrongdoing but to say so without any strong evidence whatsoever is poor form.

    Match fixing allegations were already out on the table, it was apparent 4 years before the vote that the Liverpool vs Utd game was fixed by the players in Utds favour. As I said before Norris also claimed to know about other match fixes around that time but surely someone would have outed him as a hypocrite for trying to point this out and the sensible thing from his pov would be to keep quite, no one did out him btw.

    Firstly its clear that you havent even read about what happened at all now, Spurs didnt win the league they got relegated from it, last in fact, even after the match fixing stuff became apparent it would have still put them at the bottom of the table, they essentially had the least right to complain but spuds gonna spud. Secondly we weren't promoted on that basis, I just said that the speech you cited was never even properly documented by all newspapers around that time despite them reporting on other speeches during the AGM. We won by 10 votes btw.
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    Not even your own clubs site (which I did reference) tries to hide the fact he had shady/questionable ties.

    Weak and naive.
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    What is wrong with the football fans on this forum, always talking about things apart from the actual football.
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    You also got bailed out on the brink of administration by a rich guy who had no previous affiliation to the club.

    Sound familiar?
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    (Original post by The Shed End)
    Spoiler:
    Show
    Sir Henry Norris (Businessman)

    Interesting fact, this Arsenal legend was actually involved in the creation of Chelsea Football Club. "He is particularly notorious for his alleged role in Arsenal's promotion to the top flight in 1919, despite them only finishing fifth in the Second Division."Chairmanship of Arsenal FCIn 1910,

    Norris became the majority shareholder of the ailing Woolwich Arsenal (after the club had gone into voluntary liquidation) while still retaining his post on the Fulham board, and became club chairman two years later. With Arsenal's low attendances and poor financial performance, Norris tried to create a London superclub by merging the two clubs, but this was blocked by the Football League.[6]

    Undeterred, he turned his attention to moving Arsenal to a new stadium; he eventually settled on a site in Highbury, north London, on the site of the recreation ground of St John's College of Divinity; his close relationship with Randall Davidson helped, and the archbishop personally signed the ground's title deed.[7] The Arsenal Stadium opened in 1913, and the club dropped the Woolwich from its name the following year.Norris's most infamous contribution to Arsenal's history was his role in the club's promotion from the Second Division to the First in 1919.

    Arsenal were elected to the top flight in spite of only finishing fifth the previous season (1914-15, as competition had been suspended for most of World War I). This promotion came at the expense of other clubs, most notably Arsenal's arch-rivals Tottenham Hotspur. It has been alleged that Norris bribed or in some way unduly influenced the voting members of the Football League, in particular the league chairman and owner of Liverpool, John McKenna, at the League's AGM, McKenna made a speech recommending Arsenal's promotion ahead of Spurs thanks to the former's longer spell in the League (Arsenal joined in 1893, Spurs in 1908. Although Preston North End & Wolves, who both finished ahead of Arsenal, had been members of the league longer than Arsenal, Wolves since its inception in 1888.[8]

    Although no firm proof has ever been offered, Norris's other activities, including the scandal that led to his downfall, are often cited as circumstantial evidence. Some claim that Norris 'bribed' McKenna, although this is pure speculation. Probably more likely is that he lobbied McKenna, who fearful of Norris exposing the corruption in the league at the time (Utd and Liverpool were accused of fixing the last game of the season) yielded to Norris's request to promote Arsenal to Division 1 based on their longer spell in the league and their professional status.Not even Arsenal's own website tries to hide it:

    Arsenal's rivalry with Tottenham Hotspur is one of geographical location and football history. One particular decision in 1919 did little to bond the two clubs.Having finished only fifth in the Second Division in the final season before the First World War (1914/15), Arsenal were expected to remain in the second tier when the league resumed in 1919. However, this was not the case; Arsenal were elected to the top flight - at the expense of Tottenham.

    The First Division was extended by two teams to 22 and tradition suggested the bottom two clubs from the previous season (1914/15) would be re-elected and joined by the top two teams from the Second DivisionHowever, Arsenal chairman Henry Norris, the man responsible for moving the Club to Highbury in 1913, is said to have engineered the Gunners' unexpected promotion. Norris, who rescued the Club from voluntary liquidation in 1910, is alleged to have 'influenced' the league chairman and owner of Liverpool, John McKenna.McKenna made a speech to the election committee at the Football League's Annual General Meeting recommending Arsenal's promotion ahead of their arch rivals.

    His speech concluded that Arsenal deserved a higher standing having joined the Football League in 1893, 15 years before Spurs.
    The Gunners won the election by 10 votes.Norris never moved to confirm or deny the allegations before his death in 1934 and to this day the rumour remains part of footballing folklore
    Did you even read this before you copy and pasted it? However likely this is the whole thing is based on speculation and as has been said before was most likely written by a Spurs fan just looking to get at Arsenal due to lack of recent success, which makes it even funnier/seem more desperate coming form a Chelsea fan. Season must be hitting you pretty hard.

    The entire article is literally riddled with quotes basically saying that this whole thing is pure guesswork.

    'It has been alleged...'
    'Although no concrete proof has ever been offered...'
    'Some claim that....'
    Probably more likely...'

    This is literally the definition of clutching at straws.
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    (Original post by Dirtybit)
    Don't you have a phd in thread derailing?
    Nah it's only a bachelor's but I'll be doing a masters in it soon.
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    swiftly moves on because you know no more about the subject other than the wiki article, good lad. still loling at clutching at straws pic when i don't think you know the definition of it.

    brb shady/questionable ties = committed war crimes too

    nothing much to say on the bailout other than most clubs have been through it during their existence and its not even close to comparable to what Roman did
 
 
 
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