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    (Original post by toronto353)
    Have you spoken to agency workers? I have and I can tell you that those that I speak to don't focus on on a lack of sick or holiday pay or a lack of guaranteed hours, they first and foremost prefer the flexibility and the ability to adjust their hours to what they want and can cope with. Now, if you've spoken to agency workers who say the opposite, please present your evidence and I'd be happy to have a proper debate on this. You can have flexible contracts that aren't ZHC you're right, but ZHC are good for companies who are susceptible to uneven business, having lulls in orders say, and are good for workers who might be able to work some weeks, but not others. Again, if you've spoken to people who say to the contrary, please present your evidence. But the people I have spoken to like the flexibility and time and again that is what they focus on more than anything else.

    Did I say that we have to choose between flexibility and workers rights? No.
    By supporting ZHC and going on about flexibility, you are choosing between flexibility and workers rights such as guaranteed hours, sick pay, holiday pay, paternity and maternity leave etc.

    You can have flexible contracts guaranteeing a minimum number of hours per week which can be sorted between the worker and employer quite easily. In fact i've been on such a contract for a bar before. Was told I had at least 15 hours a week and could choose as and when I did them with the employer.
    That's both flexibility and worker's rights.

    You've also not touched upon how agencies leech much money out of our public services when it could be done cheaper and more efficiently by local councils.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    A debate I don't care about, but I'm yet to run from debate when being asked to confirm the existence of central park.
    Ah how convenient. You realise you're in the wrong so are playing the 'I don't care' card. Bravo. You apparently don't even care about the debate yet cared enough to butt in simply to defend the tory party and have a go at the poster rather than engage in an actual debate of any substance.

    What an utter hypocrite you are. You're quite a misery guts aren't you.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    By supporting ZHC and going on about flexibility, you are choosing between flexibility and workers rights such as guaranteed hours, sick pay, holiday pay, paternity and maternity leave etc.

    You can have flexible contracts guaranteeing a minimum number of hours per week which can be sorted between the worker and employer quite easily. In fact i've been on such a contract for a bar before. Was told I had at least 15 hours a week and could choose as and when I did them with the employer.
    That's both flexibility and worker's rights.

    You've also not touched upon how agencies leech much money out of our public services when it could be done cheaper and more efficiently by local councils.
    There is also no need for zero hours contracts in businesses that have the ability to plan well ahead. A shop knows it is going to open and needs a minimum number of people each day, and flexibility is easier if people are paid on a monthly basis and holiday arrangements are properly thought out.
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    (Original post by barnetlad)
    There is also no need for zero hours contracts in businesses that have the ability to plan well ahead. A shop knows it is going to open and needs a minimum number of people each day, and flexibility is easier if people are paid on a monthly basis and holiday arrangements are properly thought out.
    Exactly. People go on about how ZHC are 'flexible' which they often are but there's no reason at all why you can't have a flexible contract that's not a ZHC. Such as guaranteeing a minimum number of hours and allowing the worker and employer to choose shifts which suit them both.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Exactly. People go on about how ZHC are 'flexible' which they often are but there's no reason at all why you can't have a flexible contract that's not a ZHC. Such as guaranteeing a minimum number of hours and allowing the worker and employer to choose shifts which suit them both.
    All well and good until nobody wants to take the Sunday shift...
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    (Original post by mobbsy91)
    All well and good until nobody wants to take the Sunday shift...
    ZHC hardly help there.

    In any case my dislike of ZHC has been noted before, I've seen what businesses have done to friends and peers who have been on them, such as threatening to withhold work for weeks/months if they don't skip lessons to work, and some of these people need the work to afford rent or food or even simply transport to and from college because the bursary doesn't cover it.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    By supporting ZHC and going on about flexibility, you are choosing between flexibility and workers rights such as guaranteed hours, sick pay, holiday pay, paternity and maternity leave etc.

    You can have flexible contracts guaranteeing a minimum number of hours per week which can be sorted between the worker and employer quite easily. In fact i've been on such a contract for a bar before. Was told I had at least 15 hours a week and could choose as and when I did them with the employer.
    That's both flexibility and worker's rights.

    You've also not touched upon how agencies leech much money out of our public services when it could be done cheaper and more efficiently by local councils.
    And if workers are happy to sacrifice these rights in order to have such flexibility, where is their problem? Workers can choose to opt out of the working time directive for example, I don't hear you having a problem with that. The contract that you had is great and worked for you, but for other workers, that 15 hours minimum per week wouldn't work - they prefer total flexibility. Let's take the example of a student - they can work in their holidays and early in the term, but near exams and coursework deadlines, they'd struggle to balance the two out. They don't want to have to give up a job every time it comes near an exam period, but want to be able to work heavily during the holidays. For the student, a zero hours contract is great allowing them to be flexible.

    I know little on that topic, so I'm not going to debate something I know nothing about.
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    (Original post by toronto353)
    And if workers are happy to sacrifice these rights in order to have such flexibility, where is their problem? Workers can choose to opt out of the working time directive for example, I don't hear you having a problem with that.

    And some have no choice but to do so if they want the job. I didn't choose to opt out because I love working for more than it dictates, I did so because I can't say I'm a fan of unemployment
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    And some have no choice but to do so if they want the job. I didn't choose to opt out because I love working for more than it dictates, I did so because I can't say I'm a fan of unemployment
    Quite and I think that can be a problem - I remember we had the option to opt out of the directive when I started teaching for my university, despite the fact we're only allowed to teach for 6 hours a week.



    In other news, I was googling to find the MHoC wikia, because I couldn't be bothered to trawl through threads. It's on the second page on google, where I also found this: http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showt...php?p=83090380. I've got to admit that I applaud the ingenuity of TSR Labour for widening the our recruitment pool, and for the record I'm all for promoting this place, but couldn't you have picked a better site than digitalspy?
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    (Original post by toronto353)
    In other news, I was googling to find the MHoC wikia, because I couldn't be bothered to trawl through threads. It's on the second page on google, where I also found this: http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showt...php?p=83090380. I've got to admit that I applaud the ingenuity of TSR Labour for widening the our recruitment pool, and for the record I'm all for promoting this place, but couldn't you have picked a better site than digitalspy?
    Digital Spy? Wow.
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    I did not know Labour were that desperate to win the by-election to be willing to beg strangers for a vote in a forum not used by the member begging for votes.
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    (Original post by toronto353)
    And if workers are happy to sacrifice these rights in order to have such flexibility, where is their problem? Workers can choose to opt out of the working time directive for example, I don't hear you having a problem with that. The contract that you had is great and worked for you, but for other workers, that 15 hours minimum per week wouldn't work - they prefer total flexibility. Let's take the example of a student - they can work in their holidays and early in the term, but near exams and coursework deadlines, they'd struggle to balance the two out. They don't want to have to give up a job every time it comes near an exam period, but want to be able to work heavily during the holidays. For the student, a zero hours contract is great allowing them to be flexible. *

    You misunderstand the nature of the contract I was describing. It was a guaranteed 15 hours (two shifts) at least. You can ask for more but can opt out of one if you are busy.

    All it does is guarantee you a minimum number of hours per week if you want them. Are you telling me there is anyone who prefers not having holiday pay, sick pay and guaranteed hours if they want them?

    ZHC can work for students, but my gripe with them is that lots of non students find themselves on one.

    You can still have flexibility without a ZHC. ZHC allow employers to get around paying sick pay and holiday pay and mean it is super easy for them to sack workers by simply giving them no more hours. It also means they can request workers be available at anytime with next to no warning.

    Imagine having to wake up every morning at 6 to see if you have a text offering you work that day.

    It's also bad for the economy. Consumer confidence increases when people have secure jobs with secure hours. When they don't, they are a lot more frugal with their money.
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    (Original post by toronto353)
    Quite and I think that can be a problem - I remember we had the option to opt out of the directive when I started teaching for my university, despite the fact we're only allowed to teach for 6 hours a week.



    In other news, I was googling to find the MHoC wikia, because I couldn't be bothered to trawl through threads. It's on the second page on google, where I also found this: http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showt...php?p=83090380. I've got to admit that I applaud the ingenuity of TSR Labour for widening the our recruitment pool, and for the record I'm all for promoting this place, but couldn't you have picked a better site than digitalspy?
    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    I did not know Labour were that desperate to win the by-election to be willing to beg strangers for a vote in a forum not used by the member begging for votes.
    I'll be honest, I have not seen this discussed at all in our sub-forum. I've never even heard of or seen 'James_Hogan' on the forum.
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    (Original post by Saracen's Fez)
    Digital Spy? Wow.
    Members of TSR Labour did a wonderful song as well for one election - I've long said TSR Labour are at the frontier of new ways of promoting this place. :P
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    (Original post by SoggyCabbages)
    I'll be honest, I have not seen this been discussed at all in our sub-forum. I've never even heard of or seen 'James_Hogan' on the forum.
    I should add, I'm not saying anything negative about it or accusing TSR Labour of anything whatsoever, I was raising it merely as something curious I found and my comments should be taken in the lighthearted manner in which they are intended.
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    (Original post by mobbsy91)
    All well and good until nobody wants to take the Sunday shift...
    You have a rota. Really not that complex.
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    (Original post by toronto353)
    Quite and I think that can be a problem - I remember we had the option to opt out of the directive when I started teaching for my university, despite the fact we're only allowed to teach for 6 hours a week.



    In other news, I was googling to find the MHoC wikia, because I couldn't be bothered to trawl through threads. It's on the second page on google, where I also found this: http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showt...php?p=83090380. I've got to admit that I applaud the ingenuity of TSR Labour for widening the our recruitment pool, and for the record I'm all for promoting this place, but couldn't you have picked a better site than digitalspy?
    Only problem is, most of these people won't have 3 month old accounts with 100 posts xD

    Still, I suppose it brings in more members.

    Just in case you haven't found it yet, tsrmhoc.wikia.com


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    (Original post by toronto353)
    Members of TSR Labour did a wonderful song as well for one election - I've long said TSR Labour are at the frontier of new ways of promoting this place. :P
    Did they actually sing it???
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    (Original post by SoggyCabbages)
    I'll be honest, I have not seen this discussed at all in our sub-forum. I've never even heard of or seen 'James_Hogan' on the forum.
    It was a suprise to me too.
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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    I did not know Labour were that desperate to win the by-election to be willing to beg strangers for a vote in a forum not used by the member begging for votes.
    This has not been discussed in our subforum and there is no-one with a name remotely like that in our party. This is not something that's official or condoned by the party.
 
 
 
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