Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing? Watch

Poll: Should Scotland be an independent country?
YES (299)
32.12%
NO (632)
67.88%
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Midlander
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#9241
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#9241
(Original post by Boab)
Eh?

Such as?

If 50% of the population don't wish to endorse a party, they won't!
Simple-rather than vote for one candidate you rank them in order of preference. In an ideal world we wouldn't be ruled by a Windsor on the basis of birth but that is a different debate entirely/
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Blue Meltwater
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#9242
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#9242
(Original post by Midlander)
But are the ruling party despite not getting most of the electorate to vote for them. Don't you see a problem with that?
How come this is more of a problem than the ridiculous majorities we often see in Westminster? I agree it's not ideal that a party at Holyrood can win a majority without a majority of the vote, but the system is still more proportional than the UK's. If you have a problem with the SNP's legitimacy to govern, surely you must also have a problem with the legitimacy of virtually every UK government ever?
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Midlander
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#9243
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#9243
(Original post by Blue Meltwater)
How come this is more of a problem than the ridiculous majorities we often see in Westminster? I agree it's not ideal that a party at Holyrood can win a majority without a majority of the vote, but the system is still more proportional than the UK's. If you have a problem with the SNP's legitimacy to govern, surely you must also have a problem with the legitimacy of virtually every UK government ever?
I do-there are many things about how the UK is run that I want changing. The present coalition is a very good case in point-the Lib Dems get a fraction of the seats Labour did but then get seats in the cabinet? Totally wrong.

The Tories only getting 1 out of 59 MPs in Scotland despite getting nearly a fifth of the vote is equally absurd.
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Boab
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#9244
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#9244
(Original post by Midlander)
Simple-rather than vote for one candidate you rank them in order of preference.
That is still not gaining 50% of the vote!

What you propose is the alternative vote which is less proportional than the current system we have in Scotland.
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Midlander
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#9245
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#9245
(Original post by Boab)
That is still not gaining 50% of the vote!

What you propose is the alternative vote which is less proportional than the current system we have in Scotland.
It's tantamount to saying 'if I can't have x candidate I'm happy with y'-nothing wrong with that.
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Boab
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#9246
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#9246
(Original post by Midlander)
It's tantamount to saying 'if I can't have x candidate I'm happy with y'-nothing wrong with that.
Nonsense. I vote for one party. The rest would be who I detest the least in order.

AV is less proportionate than the current Scottish system, can actually prove less proportionate than FPTP in many circumstances and doesn't do anything to address your 50% issue.

It also got trounced in the referendum.

But by the by, the SNP gained a bigger proportion of the vote in 2011 than any party has done in a General Election since 1970.
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Midlander
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#9247
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#9247
(Original post by Boab)
Nonsense. I vote for one party. The rest would be who I detest the least in order.

AV is less proportionate than the current Scottish system, can actually prove less proportionate than FPTP in many circumstances and doesn't do anything to address your 50% issue.

It also got trounced in the referendum.

But by the by, the SNP gained a bigger proportion of the vote in 2011 than any party has done in a General Election since 1970.
There is a wider issue for me of not wanting the UK to be a constitutional monarchy. I want an elected head of state and the present set-up is obviously not compatible with that.
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Boab
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#9248
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#9248
(Original post by Midlander)
There is a wider issue for me of not wanting the UK to be a constitutional monarchy. I want an elected head of state and the present set-up is obviously not compatible with that.
That doesn't detract from the fact your comment that the SNP didn't get 50% was meaningless.
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PMBB
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#9249
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#9249
Id like to know what would happen to the British flag :/ considering the fact that the basis of the union jack is the blue background which comes from the Scottish flag...
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Boab
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#9250
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#9250
(Original post by PMBB)
Id like to know what would happen to the British flag :/ considering the fact that the basis of the union jack is the blue background which comes from the Scottish flag...
Maybe Wales will get involved :rolleyes:
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PMBB
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#9251
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#9251
(Original post by Boab)
Maybe Wales will get involved :rolleyes:
Haha true :-) but i cant imagine the union jack any other way even a green and red one would look weird :-P
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Boab
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#9252
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#9252
"Scotland is an ancient nation and a modern society. We understand the past, as best we can, and guess at the future. But history is as nothing to the lives of the children being born now, this morning, in the cities, towns and villages of this country. On their behalf, we assert a claim to a better, more decent, more just future in which a country's governments will be ruled always by the decisions of its citizens.Scots have never been afraid to astonish the world. A small country has made a habit of producing big thinkers. The Sunday Herald says that it is time to think big once again. And to think for ourselves."
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Midlander
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#9253
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#9253
(Original post by Boab)
"Scotland is an ancient nation and a modern society. We understand the past, as best we can, and guess at the future. But history is as nothing to the lives of the children being born now, this morning, in the cities, towns and villages of this country. On their behalf, we assert a claim to a better, more decent, more just future in which a country's governments will be ruled always by the decisions of its citizens.Scots have never been afraid to astonish the world. A small country has made a habit of producing big thinkers. The Sunday Herald says that it is time to think big once again. And to think for ourselves."
Such modesty.
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Midlander
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#9254
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#9254
(Original post by Boab)
Maybe Wales will get involved :rolleyes:
A Yes voter acknowledging Wales? Jesus wept.
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Boab
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#9255
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#9255
(Original post by Midlander)
Such modesty.
I think you'll find it's called ambition.
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Snagprophet
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#9256
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#9256
(Original post by PMBB)
Id like to know what would happen to the British flag :/ considering the fact that the basis of the union jack is the blue background which comes from the Scottish flag...
The Union Flag would exist, as it's meant to be a union of crowns, at least the pre-St Patrick one is, but some people seem to think that its design is going to remain the national flag of the UK of England, Wales and Northern Ireland which seems like nonsense.
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FinalMH
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#9257
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#9257
(Original post by Choo.choo)
Then the UK Government should scrap the market based tuition fees policy of charging their own students through the nose for university. It should be free like it is in Scotland. The Scottish Government will change its stance when the UK Government does the same - by removing charges for tuition fees like we have here in Scotland.
The UK Government blame the problems in this country on everything but themselves. Immigrants are taking jobs, etc. We are part of the European Union! This means that any one from any of the other member states can come to this country to live.
Basically, the immigrants is used as a way to take anger away from existing power structures - the UK Government, in this case.
This has nothing to do with the UK governments policy on tuition fee's for England. Why? Because the law which governs the exchange of students is EU law. Don't like it don't join. :rolleyes: Also the UK governments current policy is to remain part of the EU and if the referendum does happen then the government will advocate to stay in the union. It will then be up to the people to decide.
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Boab
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#9258
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#9258
(Original post by Midlander)
A Yes voter acknowledging Wales? Jesus wept.
Once again, eh?

Why wouldn't I? Utter gibberish from you again this morning!
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Boab
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#9259
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#9259
(Original post by Snagprophet)
The Union Flag would exist, as it's meant to be a union of crowns, at least the pre-St Patrick one is, but some people seem to think that its design is going to remain the national flag of the UK of England, Wales and Northern Ireland which seems like nonsense.
Seems like nonsense?

Surely the United Kingdom of England, Wales and Northern Ireland would require a flag?
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Cryptographic
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#9260
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#9260
(Original post by Boab)
Nonsense. I vote for one party. The rest would be who I detest the least in order.

AV is less proportionate than the current Scottish system, can actually prove less proportionate than FPTP in many circumstances and doesn't do anything to address your 50% issue.

It also got trounced in the referendum.

But by the by, the SNP gained a bigger proportion of the vote in 2011 than any party has done in a General Election since 1970.
But a smaller percent of the electorate.
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