The Commons Bar Mk IX - MHoC Chat Thread Watch

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username878267
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#9281
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#9281
(Original post by Rakas21)
Not really. She's just too traditionally conservative on social policy for me. I've never heard her discuss economics though so she may win me over on that.

Don't think it would make much difference really. The left would still argue that polls say x and y, the right would still say to go for the Tory vote.
The candidate selection may have been wider. Perhaps better, more popular candidates such as chukka and Jarvis would have run.

What did/do you think of Jarvis btw? A lot of traditionally right wing and even ukippers seem quite impressed with him.
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KingStannis
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#9282
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From 19 minutes. How people think this is just some black and white decision is beyond me. What if he DID back out (and we'll assume he had some control over the Americans who were going in regardless of us) and Hussian just wiped out millions of his own people? We'd call him a coward.
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United1892
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#9283
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#9283
(Original post by Bornblue)
The candidate selection may have been wider. Perhaps better, more popular candidates such as chukka and Jarvis would have run.

What did/do you think of Jarvis btw? A lot of traditionally right wing and even ukippers seem quite impressed with him.
Chucka ... Urgh.

Another tory with a red ribbon probably worse than Kendall.
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username878267
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#9284
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#9284
(Original post by KingStannis)


From 19 minutes. How people think this is just some black and white decision is beyond me. What if he DID back out (and we'll assume he had some control over the Americans who were going in regardless of us) and Hussian just wiped out millions of his own people? We'd call him a coward.
We weren't shown to be cowards for backing out vietnam.

It's just incredibly hypcoritical to support and prop up dictatorships such as Lybia and Saudi Arabia yet decide they must get rid of sadam killing hundreds of thousands on the process and creating the utter mess that exists today.
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Rakas21
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(Original post by Markt1998)
Id argue that it would certainly help as long as we stopped the policy of screaming "SNP bad" and actually proposed things. Naturally it wouldnt be easy but its fight to get it back or lose it forever.
As somebody living in Newcastle i'm suprised you also miss the point. The people of Scotland have not gone en masse to the SNP because of left-right stuff, they have gone to the SNP because the perception is that no government in the last 30 years has given a crap about anywhere north of the Watford Gap. HS2 ends in Leeds.. not Edinburgh. The Olympics got a treasury cheque, the Commonwealth Games were paid for by the Scottish. This perception is far more pertinent and does not require taxation or nationalisation, it requires a change in tact from Whitehall.

Indeed, the only one who realises this is actually Osbourne. It will be interesting to see whether his 'Northern Powerhouse' starts to pay electoral dividends in 2020 and 2025.
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United1892
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#9286
(Original post by KingStannis)


From 19 minutes. How people think this is just some black and white decision is beyond me. What if he DID back out (and we'll assume he had some control over the Americans who were going in regardless of us) and Hussian just wiped out millions of his own people? We'd call him a coward.
Assuming the Americans wouldnt go in is stupid but if that happened then potentially Blair would be seen as inhumane for a different reason. However facts are shouting weapons of mass destruction and invading without evidence on a revenge mission was wrong.
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KingStannis
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#9287
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#9287
(Original post by Markt1998)
Would argue that the socialist economics promoted by the SNP isnt disproven. In fact accepting austerity as good for the economy is disproved economics.

The SNP voters would have been more perceptive if Scottish Labour hadnt of been run by people insulting anything left of Blair and shouting "SNP bad".
We need to balance the books. I mean people want to do it for a reason. At current levels, we couldn't invest in a Keynesian reaction like Brown did in response to a crisis. Because we DO eventually have to play it back. The SNP say we don;t have to because we know that they'll never get fiscal autonomy (they don't want it becuase they'd have to actually do the unpopular economica policy themselves.
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KingStannis
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#9288
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#9288
(Original post by Rakas21)
As somebody living in Newcastle i'm suprised you also miss the point. The people of Scotland have not gone en masse to the SNP because of left-right stuff, they have gone to the SNP because the perception is that no government in the last 30 years has given a crap about anywhere north of the Watford Gap. HS2 ends in Leeds.. not Edinburgh. The Olympics got a treasury cheque, the Commonwealth Games were paid for by the Scottish. This perception is far more pertinent and does not require taxation or nationalisation, it requires a change in tact from Whitehall.

Indeed, the only one who realises this is actually Osbourne. It will be interesting to see whether his 'Northern Powerhouse' starts to pay electoral dividends in 2020 and 2025.
As a sSoutherner, i just don't get it. I don't "feel" like the government "understands me" either. That;s just wishy washy nonsense, who the hell thinks about these things.
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Rakas21
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#9289
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#9289
(Original post by Bornblue)
The candidate selection may have been wider. Perhaps better, more popular candidates such as chukka and Jarvis would have run.

What did/do you think of Jarvis btw? A lot of traditionally right wing and even ukippers seem quite impressed with him.
Unlikely i think. It's a poisoned chalice for 2020 given the scale of the task (4th largest seat swing needed for a majority).

I'm not massively impressed or unimpressed in him and suspect that both he and Chucka are probably looking more at 2020 when the task will be smaller potentially. Keir Starmer seems very impressive given his record.
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United1892
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#9290
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#9290
(Original post by Rakas21)
As somebody living in Newcastle i'm suprised you also miss the point. The people of Scotland have not gone en masse to the SNP because of left-right stuff, they have gone to the SNP because the perception is that no government in the last 30 years has given a crap about anywhere north of the Watford Gap. HS2 ends in Leeds.. not Edinburgh. The Olympics got a treasury cheque, the Commonwealth Games were paid for by the Scottish. This perception is far more pertinent and does not require taxation or nationalisation, it requires a change in tact from Whitehall.

Indeed, the only one who realises this is actually Osbourne. It will be interesting to see whether his 'Northern Powerhouse' starts to pay electoral dividends in 2020 and 2025.
I understand that to but it can be a slightly right left issue in terms of if Labour goes right Scotland feels ignored by its own party.

The Northern Powerhouse and HS2 rub salt in the wounds for me. Both persist with the idea that theres nothing north of York in terms of where can get funding.
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KingStannis
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#9291
(Original post by Bornblue)
We weren't shown to be cowards for backing out vietnam.

It's just incredibly hypcoritical to support and prop up dictatorships such as Lybia and Saudi Arabia yet decide they must get rid of sadam killing hundreds of thousands on the process and creating the utter mess that exists today.
We didn't attack Hussain becuase he is a Dictator. Dictatorships are just non democracies. We can't invade peoplle for having different political philosophies,
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Rakas21
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(Original post by KingStannis)
As a sSoutherner, i just don't get it. I don't "feel" like the government "understands me" either. That;s just wishy washy nonsense, who the hell thinks about these things.
It's not about understanding per say. It's fundamentally about money (anybody who thinks voters can't be bought is an idiot).

People in the south may be cynical about politics, but you still get new trains and stuff.
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United1892
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#9293
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#9293
(Original post by KingStannis)
As a sSoutherner, i just don't get it. I don't "feel" like the government "understands me" either. That;s just wishy washy nonsense, who the hell thinks about these things.
The basic thing is London gets Crossrail and olympic stuff we get ludicrously large council cuts.
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KingStannis
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#9294
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(Original post by Rakas21)
It's not about understanding per say. It's fundamentally about money (anybody who thinks voters can't be bought is an idiot).

People in the south may be cynical about politics, but you still get new trains and stuff.
We also get low wages outside of london with nearly London costs. A ****ty three bedroom house within like 2 hours of London is 200K.
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KingStannis
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#9295
(Original post by Markt1998)
The basic thing is London gets Crossrail and olympic stuff we get ludicrously large council cuts.
And a 20k salary is actually something up north.
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United1892
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(Original post by KingStannis)
And a 20k salary is actually something up north.
Yeah but in the North East we have the highest unemployment in the Country as well as lots of low paid jobs (below 20k). Also theres barely any libraries, the swimming pools have mostly shut and there have been many job losses so just because the cost of living is cheaper dosent make life better.
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KingStannis
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(Original post by Markt1998)
Yeah but in the North East we have the highest unemployment in the Country as well as lots of low paid jobs (below 20k). Also theres barely any libraries, the swimming pools have mostly shut and there have been many job losses so just because the cost of living is cheaper dosent make life better.
Would you even go to a library? They're pretty much dead outside universities.

It's just not all roses down here like you imagine. My mum earns 37k and we rely on benefits to get by. Meanwhile, the types of job available in my area is like, 16k for senior management positions. London is great if you're a finance genius, not otherwise.
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Green_Pink
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(Original post by KingStannis)
Would you even go to a library? They're pretty much dead outside universities.

It's just not all roses down here like you imagine. My mum earns 37k and we rely on benefits to get by. Meanwhile, the types of job available in my area is like, 16k for senior management positions. London is great if you're a finance genius, not otherwise.
Sounds like you have a much better lot out of it than some of us... Who use libraries because we like reading but books are rather expensive when you have a fraction of that income!
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United1892
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#9299
(Original post by KingStannis)
Would you even go to a library? They're pretty much dead outside universities.

It's just not all roses down here like you imagine. My mum earns 37k and we rely on benefits to get by. Meanwhile, the types of job available in my area is like, 16k for senior management positions. London is great if you're a finance genius, not otherwise.
I wouldnt go to the library but its not so much about the fact its closing down its about where its closed down. In places where people cant afford to buy books the libraries are gone in my middle class area a few people managed to buy it.

I wont pretend i have it anywhere near as hard up as you do but a lot of people in the North East do and it causes them to get annoyed and vote UKIP because theyre not part of the people who have been ignoring we existed for years.

I know parts of the south arent wealthy but in general the south is richer and gets the investment but as investment is too often for profit rather than for the people that leaves said poor areas in the south.
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KingStannis
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(Original post by Green_Pink)
Sounds like you have a much better lot out of it than some of us... Who use libraries because we like reading but books are rather expensive when you have a fraction of that income!
Oh I'm certainly not complaining. I'm lower middle class, and have a comfortable, if plain, existence. But it's not enough to give me an economic advantage in the future, what we assume middle class southerners get. Furthermore, I'm depressed that earning 40k gives you a plain existence, and all the jobs you can get as a graduate are 18-22k.

No one reads books.
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