Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by barnetlad)
    They both have long memories. the last Labour government was between 1974 and about 1977. You can hardly call the Blair years a Labour government.
    Minimum wage, devolution, tax credits, SureStart, thousands more university places, EMA, school improvements, a better NHS with lower waiting times, millions taken out of poverty. I don't agree with every decision they made of course, but to say 1997-2010 was not a Labour government is ridiculous. They did a lot of good for the country with policies that would never have been pushed by the Tories. And Labour will not suceed again until we come to terms with it.
    • Political Ambassador
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    Minimum wage, devolution, tax credits, SureStart, thousands more university places, EMA, school improvements, a better NHS with lower waiting times, millions taken out of poverty. I don't agree with every decision they made of course, but to say 1997-2010 was not a Labour government is ridiculous. They did a lot of good for the country with policies that would never have been pushed by the Tories. And Labour will not suceed again until we come to terms with it.
    If that's how you decide what's a labour government and what isn't then you're calling May a labourite

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    If that's how you decide what's a labour government and what isn't then you're calling May a labourite

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Nope, I'm calling her a typical career politician oppourtunist with rather few fixed beliefs. These ideas were actually progressive from the time and far from universally supported, especially within Westminster. Without a Labour government they would not have happened at the time.

    That being said, I don't see May doing much to fix the NHS, improve schools, or re-instate EMA or SureStart centres.
    • Community Assistant
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Community Assistant
    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    Nope, I'm calling her a typical career politician oppourtunist with rather few fixed beliefs. These ideas were actually progressive from the time and far from universally supported, especially within Westminster. Without a Labour government they would not have happened at the time.

    That being said, I don't see May doing much to fix the NHS, improve schools, or re-instate EMA or SureStart centres.
    Given that colleges award bursaries directly now, why should EMA be re-instated?
    • Community Assistant
    • Wiki Support Team
    • Political Ambassador
    • PS Reviewer
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    Community Assistant
    Wiki Support Team
    Political Ambassador
    PS Reviewer
    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Given that colleges award bursaries directly now, why should EMA be re-instated?
    In addition, a lot of these bursaries are now targeted on travel etc. ensuring that money isn't frittered away, but spent where EMA was originally intended to be spent, but often wasn't.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    Direct cash payments, even if frittered, produce large social benefits through people gaining immediate incentives to continue education, whereas abstract, long-term incentives are often underplayed by many (people smoke/are fat etc). EMA is better than specified dispensations.
    • Political Ambassador
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    Westminster voting intention:
    CON: 40% (-)
    LAB: 28% (-1)
    UKIP: 13% (+1)
    LDEM: 9% (-)
    (via YouGov)

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    • Political Ambassador
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    Nope, I'm calling her a typical career politician oppourtunist with rather few fixed beliefs. These ideas were actually progressive from the time and far from universally supported, especially within Westminster. Without a Labour government they would not have happened at the time.

    That being said, I don't see May doing much to fix the NHS, improve schools, or re-instate EMA or SureStart centres.
    So somebody who kinda shares your beliefs is great, those who don't are typical careerists? Blair was a typical careerist, the era of hood politicians is as good as ovee

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Given that colleges award bursaries directly now, why should EMA be re-instated?
    Okay, firstly I'll readily admit I'm not particularly in touch with the issue - I'm only really familiar with the situation as of a couple of years ago. But at that stage at least, the bursuries didn't do a good job of covering individual need as they aimed too. For instance, students were being denied travel bursuries because they didn't live far enough away, but it didn't account for the fact that being just outside London made the commute much more expensive than being geographically further away at the other end of the city. Those on smallers courses such as Anthropology weren't getting enough funding to cover the more expensive textbooks they needed. There was no account taken for families that had a decentish income, but very little of it disposible to help with costs due to mortgages, more children etc. I'd like to think these issues had been dealt with, but I doubt it.

    In addition, it inherently led to a situation where some students had to make a financial decision as to which college or sixth form to attend rather than an educational one, which of course disadvantages poorer students. To be fair, I don't think EMA is an absolute necessity compared to some of the other things which have been cut. But on the whole, it wasn't very expensive; it ensured nobody lost out financially from further education or felt like they needed a constant part-time job either to afford living costs or enjoy a social life with their peers; it provided an incentive for good behaviour and attendence which can be hard to do with sixth formers; pretty much all of it went straight back into the economy because non-wealthy 16-18 year olds are always going to spend it rather than save and do so in the UK; and most importantly for me, it gave every student at least some experience of saving, managing money etc rather than sending them off to uni with none. I literally know of people who've never had control of more than £30 in their lives turn up in Fresher's Week with three grand in their new bank account. No wonder bad decisions are made. On the whole, it was just a good, useful policy at minimal cost rather than an absolute necessity.

    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    So somebody who kinda shares your beliefs is great, those who don't are typical careerists? Blair was a typical careerist, the era of hood politicians is as good as ovee

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    I'm more thinking it's too early to judge May on what she does as PM, but Blair for all his faults was a progressive for his time and an innovator alongside, yes, a careerist: but on the whole he did have some strong, Labour policies which served the country very well and which came from a left-wing perspective. We need to recognise our mistakes but be proud of our achievements too. The fact the Tories no longer oppose many of them is a credit to how well they've worked, not a detriment to their ideological purity.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    Just because Blair was Labour doesn't mean he was left-wing. His government was 'third way' mix of both right and left policies - almost a centrist in a kind of way.
    • Community Assistant
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Community Assistant
    Oh wow, it's even worse than the headlines look.

    Among the over 65's.. Labour is 35% behind!!!!!!!

    Even if overblown, that's incredible.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    i dont get why people want politicians to stick to their principles


    If your views don't change with the evidence you shouldnt be leading a country, simply as.


    Corbyn is an old goat who will never change his mind despite all the economic evidence.


    hes also a massive cuck and would get steamrollered in negotiations with really tough leaders from china etc.

    you just look at him and think "weak".
    • Study Helper
    • Welcome Squad
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    Study Helper
    Welcome Squad
    (Original post by banterboy)
    i dont get why people want politicians to stick to their principles


    If your views don't change with the evidence you shouldnt be leading a country, simply as.


    Corbyn is an old goat who will never change his mind despite all the economic evidence.


    hes also a massive cuck and would get steamrollered in negotiations with really tough leaders from china etc.

    you just look at him and think "weak".
    You can have principles while having changing views. At least he's not an entirely spineless weasel like most of them

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    • Political Ambassador
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    To say we were supposed to be cut off and getting no inward investment after brexit it really is going all wrong, another £275m gsk investment

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    • Community Assistant
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Community Assistant
    (Original post by banterboy)
    i dont get why people want politicians to stick to their principles

    If your views don't change with the evidence you shouldnt be leading a country, simply as.

    Corbyn is an old goat who will never change his mind despite all the economic evidence.

    hes also a massive cuck and would get steamrollered in negotiations with really tough leaders from china etc.

    you just look at him and think "weak".
    Principles should still guide you but you should be able to think of alternative measures when faced with the political reality around you.

    On here for example the agenda i would put forward with a Tory majority is very different from the one i put forward when faced with the reality that the number of people that would support abolition of planning law, privatisation and cutting tens of billions from health, welfare and foreign aid is no more than about 10.
    Offline

    22
    ReputationRep:
    Wales has gone mad

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36900310
    • Wiki Support Team
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    Wiki Support Team
    (Original post by banterboy)
    i dont get why people want politicians to stick to their principles


    If your views don't change with the evidence you shouldnt be leading a country, simply as.


    Corbyn is an old goat who will never change his mind despite all the economic evidence.


    hes also a massive cuck and would get steamrollered in negotiations with really tough leaders from china etc.

    you just look at him and think "weak".
    Corbyn clearly would never be 'steamrollered' by anyone. XD Don't you watch the news?
    • Community Assistant
    • Wiki Support Team
    • Political Ambassador
    • PS Reviewer
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    Community Assistant
    Wiki Support Team
    Political Ambassador
    PS Reviewer
    It's policies like this from Owen Smith that make you realise that Labour still do not understand how the economy works:

    'Mr Smith pledged to reinstate the 50p income tax rate, reverse the inheritance tax cuts, ban zero hours contracts and introduce a 1 per cent wealth tax in an attempt to win over Mr Corbyn’s supporters.'

    I also don't think that saying he wanted to '“smash” Theresa May “back on her heels”' helps either - it just associates him with violence, however metaphorical

    Ah well, keep going like this, Labour, and we'll see at least another five years of Tory rule.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...uld-smash-the/
    Offline

    22
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by toronto353)
    It's policies like this from Owen Smith that make you realise that Labour still do not understand how the economy works:

    'Mr Smith pledged to reinstate the 50p income tax rate, reverse the inheritance tax cuts, ban zero hours contracts and introduce a 1 per cent wealth tax in an attempt to win over Mr Corbyn’s supporters.'

    I also don't think that saying he wanted to '“smash” Theresa May “back on her heels”' helps either - it just associates him with violence, however metaphorical

    Ah well, keep going like this, Labour, and we'll see at least another five years of Tory rule.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...uld-smash-the/
    It's why us Corbynistas despise "soundbites" associated with modern day politics
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by toronto353)
    It's policies like this from Owen Smith that make you realise that Labour still do not understand how the economy works:

    'Mr Smith pledged to reinstate the 50p income tax rate, reverse the inheritance tax cuts, ban zero hours contracts and introduce a 1 per cent wealth tax in an attempt to win over Mr Corbyn’s supporters.'

    I also don't think that saying he wanted to '“smash” Theresa May “back on her heels”' helps either - it just associates him with violence, however metaphorical

    Ah well, keep going like this, Labour, and we'll see at least another five years of Tory rule.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...uld-smash-the/
    He has to talk the talk to have any chance whatsoever of beating Corbyn. Although I would say the 50p tax rate wasn't given a fair chance and the 'evidence' for getting rid of it was exceptionally flimsy. But in any case, I'd say those tax rises are probably popular with most of the electorate, no? (I do disagree with him on zero-hours contracts).
 
 
 
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: August 15, 2016
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Would you like to hibernate through the winter months?
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.