Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing? Watch

Poll: Should Scotland be an independent country?
YES (299)
32.12%
NO (632)
67.88%
This discussion is closed.
MatureStudent36
Badges: 3
Rep:
?
#9401
Report 5 years ago
#9401
(Original post by Boab)
Which shows he is the SNPs literature poster boy, how?

Just another in the long line of nonsense comments from MS36.
Not really. You'll choose to ignore any point that goes against you're viewpoint. I choose to take all information in and make my own mind up.

You've chosen to ignore a key SNP supporter, and the creator of the Sunday heralds art work for yesterday, claiming that non Scots are colonists.

The SNP. Remarkably like UKIP.
0
Reformed2010
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#9402
Report 5 years ago
#9402
(Original post by Boab)
That those who are pro-EU are the ones with some form of brain activity?:confused:
Do you not see the irony of those being anti-UK being pro-EU? They reject Conservatives in Westminster. But accept Conservatives in Brussels who are called the European People's Party.

The EU institutions (Parliament, commission, Council) are dominated by members from the European People's Party. An independent Scotland would leave the British union and be legally obliged to accept the will of Conservatives in Brussels.

If people in Scotland hate the austerity 'forced' it on them by Tories in London, why not ask how the Greeks, Spanish and Irish felt when Conservatives in Brussels 'forced' it on them.

By joining the EU Scotland would have powers on tax & spending, benefits health, sports, education, justice and crime, and media. But most of these powers are already devolved to Scotland anyway.
0
Boab
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#9403
Report 5 years ago
#9403
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
Not really. You'll choose to ignore any point that goes against you're viewpoint. I choose to take all information in and make my own mind up.

You've chosen to ignore a key SNP supporter, and the creator of the Sunday heralds art work for yesterday, claiming that non Scots are colonists.

The SNP. Remarkably like UKIP.
Yes you do. How is he the SNPs literature poster boy?

He isn't, you just make things up. No facts, no evidence, just lies after lies which we have proven time and time again.

The SNP remarkably like UKIP? Your pathetic lies know no limit. What a sad individual you are.
0
Boab
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#9404
Report 5 years ago
#9404
(Original post by Reformed2010)
Do you not see the irony of those being anti-UK being pro-EU?
No.

Two very different things.
0
MatureStudent36
Badges: 3
Rep:
?
#9405
Report 5 years ago
#9405
(Original post by Boab)
Yes you do. How is he the SNPs literature poster boy?

He isn't, you just make things up. No facts, no evidence, just lies after lies which we have proven time and time again.

The SNP remarkably like UKIP? Your pathetic lies know no limit. What a sad individual you are.
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-...-west-19523856

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/269635-a...-independence/

http://m.scotsman.com/lifestyle/arts...-bbc-1-3149747

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...g-hold-account
0
Reformed2010
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#9406
Report 5 years ago
#9406
(Original post by Boab)
No.

Two very different things.
No it isn't. Both are unions that limit the sovereignty of their regional administrations and respective territories they govern. That's like saying California is different to the USA. Well yes it is in certain aspects, but in terms of the argument being used to call for independence you have to compare it. If people in California hate Republicans in Washington, they would need to explain why they are okay with right-wing politicians passing laws to govern California if the plan was to join in union with Mexico.

If legislation from Conservatives in London is unbearable. Why is it bearable for legislation from Christian Conservatives in Brussels.
If it is unbearable to respect the will of the UK parliament in London why is bearable to respect the will of parliament in Brussels.
If respecting the decision of the UK Conservatives to have austerity is unbearable why is it okay to respect the decision to have austerity from the EU Christian Conservatives?
If having decisions taken on the behalf of the Scottish people in London wrong. Why is it good to have decisions taken on behalf of the Scottish people in Brussels?
What makes British Conservatives and politicians more unbearable than European Conservatives and politicians?
0
Boab
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#9407
Report 5 years ago
#9407
And you consider this evidence? :rolleyes:
0
Boab
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#9408
Report 5 years ago
#9408
(Original post by Reformed2010)
If respecting the decision of the UK Conservatives to have austerity is unbearable why is it okay to respect the decision to have austerity from the EU Christian Conservatives?
This is what you consider irony?

We wish to reclaim our own sovereignty. We are not swapping Westminster for Brussels, we are swapping Westminster for Holyrood. We are already in the EU.

The benefits of EU membership are far too numerous to list or debate on here.

Try and also understand that not everyone will vote YES purely to get rid of the conservatives.
0
MatureStudent36
Badges: 3
Rep:
?
#9409
Report 5 years ago
#9409
(Original post by Boab)
This is what you consider irony?

We wish to reclaim our own sovereignty. We are not swapping Westminster for Brussels, we are swapping Westminster for Holyrood. We are already in the EU.

The benefits of EU membership are far too numerous to list or debate on here.

Try and also understand that not everyone will vote YES purely to get rid of the conservatives.
Benefits of the EU that even you've acknowledged we'll have to reapply to join.

Thanks but no thanks. I don't want to create a huge amount of cost to empower another den of vipers.

I may even start up my own separatist movement and claim I'm special and unique.
0
Midlander
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#9410
Report 5 years ago
#9410
(Original post by Boab)
This is what you consider irony?

We wish to reclaim our own sovereignty. We are not swapping Westminster for Brussels, we are swapping Westminster for Holyrood. We are already in the EU.

The benefits of EU membership are far too numerous to list or debate on here.

Try and also understand that not everyone will vote YES purely to get rid of the conservatives.
Such as using the euro, not discriminating against students from other EU member sta-ah.
0
Reformed2010
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#9411
Report 5 years ago
#9411
(Original post by Boab)
This is what you consider irony?

We wish to reclaim our own sovereignty. We are not swapping Westminster for Brussels, we are swapping Westminster for Holyrood. We are already in the EU.

The benefits of EU membership are far too numerous to list or debate on here.

Try and also understand that not everyone will vote YES purely to get rid of the conservatives.
My question goes at the heart of sovereignty and I was using the comparison of conservatives in UK and EU to better highlight my point. Clearing didn't work.

You are certainly swapping London for Brussels. An independent Scotland would be legally obliged to join the Eurozone, banking union, Schengen area and the European Fiscal Compact. Major decisions that will have a direct impact on the everyday lives of the Scottish people and their economy will be taken by European Politicians in Brussels. Not London and not Edinburgh.

So again I ask, why is it perfectly okay to have Brussels make the decision on say the Scottish interest rates and interfere with its budget but having London do so it's robbing Scotland of its sovereignty?
0
Midlander
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#9412
Report 5 years ago
#9412
Interesting article for Boab and Choo Choo on Scottish attitudes towards immigration:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-25910947
0
MatureStudent36
Badges: 3
Rep:
?
#9413
Report 5 years ago
#9413
(Original post by Reformed2010)
You are certainly swapping London for Brussels. An independent Scotland would be legally obliged to join the Eurozone, banking union, Schengen area and the European Fiscal Compact. Major decisions that will have a direct impact on the everyday lives of the Scottish people and their economy will be taken by European Politicians in Brussels. Not London and not Edinburgh.

So again I ask, why is it perfectly okay to have Brussels make the decision on say the Scottish interest rates or debt ceiling but having London do so it's robbing Scotland of its sovereignty?
To give SNP politicians access to the EU gravy train.

Look at it. no and argument is that we never get a government we vote for. At the moment 12 out of 59 constituents got the government they voted for. If labour get in 41 out of 59 constituents get the government they vote for. I'd have thought that the 6 constituents that voted SNP will never get the government they vote for.

Fortunately, most Scots, although not supporters of the Conservatives aren't going to risk economic ruin to get away from a party that has little impact on people day to day lives and can be voted out as soon as they were voted in.
0
sauzee_4
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#9414
Report 5 years ago
#9414
(Original post by Midlander)
My figures come from HMRC/Treasury sources where you can view the spendings and earnings of each of the 4 constituent states:

Receipts: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/statistics/re...agg-method.pdf

Spending: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/n...data-published

Scotland's deficit was bigger than England's, but Wales and NI are the major loss makers.
I think you've proved my point with those figures, Scotland runs a deficit, but the UK as a whole (England, Northern Ireland, Wales) runs a much larger deficit.
0
Choo.choo
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#9415
Report 5 years ago
#9415
(Original post by Midlander)
Interesting article for Boab and Choo Choo on Scottish attitudes towards immigration:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-25910947
The article shows that Scotland is not xenophobic; whereas England very much is. What is your point?
0
sauzee_4
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#9416
Report 5 years ago
#9416
(Original post by Midlander)
Scotland's economy is too dependent upon a finite resource, and this resource is going to run out before the half century, and may well cease to be profitable before then. I find it interesting that the Greens have taken side with the Yes campaign but seemingly have no issue with Salmond's bigging up of an oil fuelled economy.
Our GDP Per Capita is equal to that of the rUK excluding oil revenues (source GERS).

I think the Greens support Independence because it will be a step towards a cleaner, greener society. As far as I'm aware the UK parties positions on Energy are that they will continue with Nuclear and purchasing Oil from the middle east (could be wrong here).
0
Midlander
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#9417
Report 5 years ago
#9417
(Original post by sauzee_4)
I think you've proved my point with those figures, Scotland runs a deficit, but the UK as a whole (England, Northern Ireland, Wales) runs a much larger deficit.
England's deficit is smaller, Wales and Northern Ireland's are much bigger. It is quite clear that England and to a lesser extent Scotland are carrying the other two.

The UK at this moment in time is in a pretty strong position financially and that is despite falling oil revenues.
0
Midlander
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#9418
Report 5 years ago
#9418
(Original post by Choo.choo)
The article shows that Scotland is not xenophobic; whereas England very much is. What is your point?
It shows no such thing. The question posed resulted in a difference of 10% between the two and it was highlighted how much more immigration there has been into England than Scotland.

Don't give me this 'English people are more xenophobic' guff.
0
Midlander
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#9419
Report 5 years ago
#9419
(Original post by sauzee_4)
Our GDP Per Capita is equal to that of the rUK excluding oil revenues (source GERS).

I think the Greens support Independence because it will be a step towards a cleaner, greener society. As far as I'm aware the UK parties positions on Energy are that they will continue with Nuclear and purchasing Oil from the middle east (could be wrong here).
Do you not see the contradiction in taking a step towards a greener society by funding it with oil revenues? Nuclear is a very attractive option whilst renewable sources are found. France has been running on nuclear for years and its energy bills are rock bottom compared to the UK's.
0
L i b
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#9420
Report 5 years ago
#9420
(Original post by sauzee_4)
Come on let's have a sensible debate, I agree there are plenty of idiots in society who are racist but you can't honestly say because we feel the decisions affecting Scotland should be taken in Scotland and by ​Scotland we are racist because of it.
If you applied that concept to "races", it would be very racist - apartheid, effectively. If you apply it to other groups, that's nationalism. However nationalism is, in many ways, tied up with ethnicity too.

(Original post by sauzee_4)
Ok for God Save the Queen to advocate "Crushing rebellious Scots" though?
A complete fabrication. A ditty sung to the tune, reported third-hand in a magazine a century later as having been sung in a theatre in London in 1745 does not a verse of the national anthem make. In fact, there are no official words to the National Anthem, however two verses have been used in programmes etc at state events.

It's this sort of distortion that really undermines the nationalist case: they clearly lie to create grievances where none exist.

(Original post by sauzee_4)
Apologies but that is way over my head (probably my fault) could you explain that in simpler terms?

Scotland has contributed £64 billion more in tax revenues to the treasury than it has received back over the last 30 years. So I'm quite sure we would be able to afford postdoctoral and postgraduate research quite comfortably.
I'm not sure where that figure comes from, but it certainly isn't the usual, established and verified figures. If it was, GERS does not include the extra spending on national research grants that Scotland receives - in fact, it attributes it on a per capita population basis as a national expenditure.

Anyway, let's consider the figures we use: you are suggesting historical ones would support an argument for independence. It seems to be the suggestion that, despite huge change, things would stay the same. They won't. Our public services will cost more to run as a separate state, we will lose economies of scale, we will be faced with enormous start-up costs, we will lose money tackling the volatility of our public finances caused by North Sea oil, we will cease to have UK Trade and Investment promoting Scottish businesses from their bases across the globe.

Scotland in the past will not be Scotland in the future, particularly if we opt to leave the UK.
0
X
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Have you made up your mind on your five uni choices?

Yes I know where I'm applying (114)
66.67%
No I haven't decided yet (34)
19.88%
Yes but I might change my mind (23)
13.45%

Watched Threads

View All