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    (Original post by Lúcio)
    i don't understand any person who defends Ozil nowadays.
    don't give me all that "he's not playing in his position" nonsense - a supposedly world class play (which he isn't) would still have at least a respectable record even not in his natural position.

    his input to your team is laughable considering his price - he shouldn't be kept in your first team just because he cost 40m.

    am i being too critical here; would be interesting to see arsenal fan's views on him
    It's quite simple really: Wenger broke Ozil. Ozil is the ultimate luxury player, you start him every game and bring him off at half time. At Madrid he rarely ever finished a game, and his role was perfect. He is good in short bursts, but doesn't have the physical or mental stamina to do what Wenger asked of him: play 90 minutes week in, week out.
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    (Original post by Arkasia)
    Cheers Luke, for all of the jokes about you, youre probably the most decent Scouse fan who frequents this board. I get that your aggressive playing style means you often make the types of run into the box that bring about penalties, but you seem to be just as bad as the Man Utd of old, with 3/4 of your players looking for dives as opposed to making plays. Many other teams play a similar style to you but don't get even half as many penalties.
    meh, i get a lot of hate but i'm trying to dial it down and be a little less offensive and more understanding towards opposing fans.

    i would say of our players, sturridge is the only real "diver".
    sterling goes down at times but he also has the ability to stay up and he often does, so he's a little bit in the middle.

    i think now more than ever we will concern other teams for penalties.
    when you look at some of our quick, agile players like sturridge/sterling/coutinho and then you add in our nimble, very attacking fullbacks in manquillo/moreno, you have a LOT of players running in and around the box so penalties will be expected.

    however, i do also understand how frustrating it may be to be often seeing a rival team win a game or rescue points from frequent penalties.
    legitimate or not, i do appreciate how infuriating it must be to watch at times.

    (Original post by Arkasia)
    It's quite simple really: Wenger broke Ozil. Ozil is the ultimate luxury player, you start him every game and bring him off at half time. At Madrid he rarely ever finished a game, and his role was perfect. He is good in short bursts, but doesn't have the physical or mental stamina to do what Wenger asked of him: play 90 minutes week in, week out.
    i agree - ozil needs to be played in the right way and wenger got it all wrong.
    more eveidence to me that he's past it.

    you've turned a 40m world class player (when you bought him) in to a passenger who shouldn't even be in your first team.
    the ultimate fail here is actually impressive!
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    (Original post by sevchenko)
    Seriously!? I can't believe what I'm reading here
    Kneejerk reaction but if you consider that Dortmund could have scored 5+ goals with a clinical striker (which Chelsea have) as well as having a vastly inferior midfield and defence to Chelsea then I can only see another humiliating defeat on the levels of the 6-0 last season. Even that scoreline flattered us that day.
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    Has any arsenal player got bad things to say about Wenger? If they want him to stay at the club they would win the next match regardless of where he fields them.
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    Were a team of misfits really


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    Anyway like I was saying during the City game, you lot were not impressive by any stretch. If City had Yaya Toure you'd have lost basically. Lamps was playing ahead of him in the first half.

    Anyway you lot will come hard second half of the season so dw bros.
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    (Original post by Fizzel)
    Moyes had the problem of setting up not to lose when we could clearly win.

    That's fine, I'm not saying you had to park the bus, but you just helped them win. Playing not to lose doesn't mean defensive football its just a measured approach, yours was reckless and you gave them two goals without asking the key questions, they didn't have to play though you. You gave them the game they wanted on a plate.

    I didn't think they were great at all, they didn't control the ball and they were sloppy with their chances, and they allowed several clear sights at goal for your striker so not defensively solid either.
    Depends on your definition of great, but they played in a way that didn't allow Arsenal to find into their game at all and that would be challenging for most teams. The only thing they really lacked was efficiency in front of goal. They pressed extremely well from front to back, especially in midfield where playing with Kehl AND Bender really payed off, helped them win loads of balls there and made up for Hummels not playing/Subotic not being 100%, and managed to keep the intensity really high for most of the game. Their team movement was great, they were constantly blocking Arsenal's passing lanes and rarely ever lost their team shape.

    Not sure what you mean with "didn't control the ball" but I don't remember them being particularly sloppy with that; they mostly moved the ball to the front very fast and very well once winning it. In attack, bar Immobile, none of the players are their first-choice options, but they still made most of what they had by using their pace extremely well and being quite unforgiving with any space Arsenal left between the lines. The finishing is one thing you can criticise but that was mostly thanks to Mkhtaryan. Still, they hit the crossbar once, had one really good shot saved by Szczesny and a few others saved as well so wasn't only down to sloppiness.

    Didn't see sloppy defending either. I only remember one chance where Arsenal had "clear sights" on goal and BVB's backline looked shaky (Welbeck towards the end of the 1st half). Other than that, I don't think Arsenal's chances were down to poor defending on Dortmund's side at all but rather to some individual quality shining through in Arsenal's team, e.g. the Ramsey pass (iirc) that led to Welbeck's chance in the first half or a couple of good moments from Alexis. For that one chance where Welbeck was waiting in the box and Weidenfeller got the ball, Sokratis/Schmelzer had already moved back and blocked the space when Welbeck touched the ball, so not really big danger there either.

    Not a perfect or unmanageable performance from BVB, but if you consider their injuries and the rotations they made even in their "second string" team (no Jojic, Kagawa, Piszczek), they fared extremely well. Of course part of that could have been dealt with had Arsenal e.g. left less space between the lines, weren't so slow in build-up play etc though (but not all of it).
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    (Original post by Arkasia)
    It's quite simple really: Wenger broke Ozil.
    I love this. That Shakespearean decline :coma:

    The man destroyed the thing he loved.

    Yet each man kills the thing he loves,
    By each let this be heard,
    Some do it with a bitter look,
    Some with a flattering word,
    The coward does it with a kiss,
    The brave man with a sword.
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    Ffs had two teeth out yesterday and my mouth is killing me like gums are swollen think its infected :/


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    (Original post by WeOnlyLiveOnce)
    Look on the brightside. You're on 4900 posts well done

    I know it's all doom and gloom here but it's just one match. Tbh you guys shouldn't have really expected anything much from this game, no shame in losing to Dortmund at their yard.
    Hehehe

    It's not the fact that we lost, its' the manner in which we did. What also irritates me is the fact key players for them were out. Anyways, we move on and get ready for the next game.
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    (Original post by Lúcio)
    pls guys

    i admit we get a LOT of penalties and we have a world class penalty taker to convert them:cool:

    but most of them are actual penalties - it's just rodger's style; he got loads at swansea and he gets loads at liverpool.
    not gonna say we don't have players prone to diving (like sturridge), but being bitter and suggesting we're constantly diving is a little low.

    not gonna wum you after your loss - from what i hear you were dominated, but you were away to a team you didn't expect to beat anyway.
    that would be like people wumming us for losing to madrid when we go to the bernabeu...
    The penalty thing with you lots its really starting to grind on me, seriously. Might force me into creating some conspiracy theories you know.

    I appreciate it, the last thing we need is wuming from other fans. Why kick us when we're already down.

    (Original post by AnharM)
    Just seen this, great comment.

    Yeah, it seems every Arsenal fan knows which players they need to bring in, but Wenger and his men don't. Non-Arsenal fans keep saying ''Arsenal are one DM and one world-class striker away from being a top competing side'', but Wenger doesn't target players in these positions. I'm just so glad Mourinho did a madness for Chelsea this summer, and bought the right players in the right positions.
    Thanks.

    Everybody knows but the man who has the ability to rectify the issues. Either he knows about the issues and is just being stingy/ stubborn or he really doesn't see it. Arsene keeps talking about how he aims to win the cl trophy before he calls his time on the club but with his sort of mindset we can't progress onto greater things. We can't be satisfied with this slow progression if we can even call it that, we need that same fire Mourinho has in his eyes. When something needs to be done, it's done, when one formation doesn't work out, we change the system and adapt. Utilise the players we have then things should improve.
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    AGM has been confirmed for the 16th October. So when we catch a beating from Chelsea (which is the match before) there will be fireworks!


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    (Original post by qua)
    Depends on your definition of great, but they played in a way didn't allow Arsenal to find into their game at all and that would be challenging for most teams. The only thing they really lacked was efficiency in front of goal. They pressed extremely well from front to back, especially in midfield where playing with Kehl AND Bender really payed off, helped them win loads of balls there and made up for Hummels not playing/Subotic not being 100%, and managed to keep the intensity really high for most of the game. Their team movement was great, they were constantly blocking Arsenal's passing lanes and rarely ever lost their team shape.

    Not sure what you mean with "didn't control the ball" but I don't remember them being particularly sloppy with that; they mostly moved the ball to the front very fast and very well once winning it. In attack, bar Immobile, none of the players are their first-choice options, but they still made most of what they had by using their pace extremely well and being quite unforgiving with any space Arsenal left between the lines. The finishing is one thing you can criticise but that was mostly thanks to Mkhtaryan. Still, they hit the crossbar once, had one really good shot saved by Szczesny and a few others saved as well so wasn't only down to sloppiness.

    Didn't see sloppy defending either. I only remember one chance where Arsenal had "clear sights" on goal and BVB's backline looked shaky (Welbeck towards the end of the 1st half). Other than that, I don't think Arsenal's chances were down to poor defending on Dortmund's side at all but rather to some individual quality shining through in Arsenal's team, e.g. the Ramsey pass (iirc) that led to Welbeck's chance in the first half or a couple of good moments from Alexis. For that one chance where Welbeck was waiting in the box and Weidenfeller got the ball, Sokratis/Schmelzer had already moved back and blocked the space when Welbeck touched the ball, so not really big danger there either.

    Not a perfect or unmanageable performance from BVB, but if you consider their injuries and the rotations they made even in their "second string" team (no Jojic, Kagawa, Piszczek), they fared extremely well. Of course part of that could have been dealt with had Arsenal e.g. left less space between the lines, weren't so slow in build-up play etc though.
    Yeah agree, Dortmund pretty much dominated the game. Arsenal helped Arsenal lose. You'd have thought they'd surely put on Flamini at some point in the game or started him. Just use him and Wilshere, while getting Ramsey as a wide midfielder to track Aubameyang defensively with Sanchez on the other side. Ozil plays as he can find a ball for Welbeck. Heck I'd have changed to this formation the second I saw Aubameyang on the teamsheet.

    They got behind Arsenal way, way too many times that I lost count. Aubameyang just found space behind Bellerin so many times. Again that makes no sense as to why Ozil played on the right at times this game when Aubameyang was raiding that side. I genuinely think Wenger doesn't actually focus on the other teams threat and just tells them to play their game, or if he does focus on their threats gets it horribly wrong. If he wanted to park the bus, Using Ramsey wide right, keeping it as tight as possible then just hitting them on counters, getting chamberlain on later on in the game.

    Interesting that they used Durm at RB? Ain't he naturally right footed and if so, do you see him as an future RB or will he stay at LB competing with Schmelzer(since he's the most suspect fullback out of the two)? Was impressed with Dortmund, would probably give it a 9/10 performance considering the personnel.
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    Klopp will replace Wenger in 2/3 years and then you'll see how much Wenger has held you back the last few years. Would seriously, I mean seriously, challenge for the PL and latter stages of the CL knockout rounds.
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    (Original post by Peggles_*)
    AGM has been confirmed for the 16th October. So when we catch a beating from Chelsea (which is the match before) there will be fireworks!


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    We face you soon. Cannot wait pegz.
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    Walcott to be back mid October I reckon (back to full training in 2-3 weeks according to Wenger after the City game). **** i miss that boy.
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    (Original post by The Shed End)
    Klopp will replace Wenger in 2/3 years and then you'll see how much Wenger has held you back the last few years. Would seriously, I mean seriously, challenge for the PL and latter stages of the CL knockout rounds.
    We already know how much Arsene is holding us back, well at least I do, some have their head in the sand though.

    It's laughable how we have a fanatic section if fans who continue to defend him when he was once again ****ed up. Arsene Wenger is the David Koresh of football; crazy, with a cult following, scary stuff.

    As a Chelsea fan, what is it like having a proper manager? We haven't had one for about 5 years now :sad:


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    (Original post by Kim-Jong-Illest)
    Walcott to be back mid October I reckon (back to full training in 2-3 weeks according to Wenger after the City game). **** i miss that boy.
    I swear down he's played like 5 games of football in the past calendar year.
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    (Original post by Peggles_*)
    We already know how much Arsene is holding us back, well at least I do, some have their head in the sand though.

    It's laughable how we have a fanatic section if fans who continue to defend him when he was once again ****ed up. Arsene Wenger is the David Koresh of football; crazy, with a cult following, scary stuff.

    As a Chelsea fan, what is it like having a proper manager? We haven't had one for about 5 years now :sad:


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    Thing is, last summer Mata and Luiz were our two most important players and Jose would have had a mutiny on his hands from the fans if he had sold them. A year later we've got £80 million for the two (credit has to go to Michael Emenalo too), but if there's one manager I trust over this then it has to be Jose, and tbh there's been relatively little disconstent over those two leaving.

    I know it doesn't apply to all Arsenal fans, and in fact a very small but vocal minority, but they don't really help themselves when they go off burning shirts of their ex-players whenever they move to a different club. I can't pretend I know what it's like having there best players sold season after season, but I think the only way Arsenal can unify all the fans in one cause (ala FA Cup) is if they replace Wenger with someone like Klopp and Conte, because they will actually spend money.

    It's not really a case of spending tens of millions on marquee signings but making practical ones. Granted Chambers, Ospina and Dubuchy are good examples of this, but it's been clear since the start of 12/13 season that you need a new striker and it's taken 24 months to get Welbeck and Sanogo ffs.

    Lewandowski left Dortmund and they got the Ramos and Immobile deals sorted very quickly. Conte brought in Tevez and Llorente for £10 million in total.
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    (Original post by Lyrical Prodigy)
    The penalty thing with you lots its really starting to grind on me, seriously. Might force me into creating some conspiracy theories you know.

    I appreciate it, the last thing we need is wuming from other fans. Why kick us when we're already down.
    Yeah I get you - it reminds me of the season when we came runners up to united.
    The amount of 1-0 victories they had that year after scoring later than 85 minutes was absolutely ridiculous.
    I still hate Macheda all these years later.

    They were mainly legit goals (like our pens are mainly legit) but as an opposing fan it really annoyed me.

    I don't see the point WUMming a team after losing away to a better team unless it's by 4 or more.
    That's why I didn't understand people WUMming us after the city match... :P
 
 
 
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