The Commons Bar Mk IX - MHoC Chat Thread Watch

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username456717
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#9481
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#9481
(Original post by Bornblue)
Joining a party simply to scupper their leadership contest when you are never going to vote for that party is just about as low as it gets.
The fact Tories are genuinely considering this is so underhand and pathetic and sums up what they and their supporters( many of them ) are really about.
The Labour Party are stupid for not putting any stricter rules in place. It isn't only right wingers doing this I know that many on the far left are voting for the socialist bloke.
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username878267
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#9482
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#9482
(Original post by nebelbon)
The Labour Party are stupid for not putting any stricter rules in place. It isn't only right wingers doing this I know that many on the far left are voting for the socialist bloke.
But left wingers want this guy in charge because they would vote for him. Right wingers don't.
To scupper another party's contest purposely is as low as it gets and shows the nasty , triablistic side to politics.
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username456717
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#9483
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#9483
(Original post by Bornblue)
But left wingers want this guy in charge because they would vote for him. Right wingers don't.
To scupper another party's contest purposely is as low as it gets and shows the nasty , triablistic side to politics.
It is exactly the same - exterior forces are interfering in an election for what they think is right.
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Stiff Little Fingers
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#9484
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#9484
(Original post by nebelbon)
It is exactly the same - exterior forces are interfering in an election for what they think is right.
Difference is the lefties signing up to vote would likely vote labour if Corbyn was in charge, they're signing up to vote with the intention of being part of the party if it lurches left. The Tories are signing up to sabotage labour, with no intention of voting for them. It's not as simple as you've made it out - the left are joining under the hope of labour wanting them, the Tories are joining for some petty agenda - their behaviour is pretty sickening.


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username456717
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#9485
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#9485
(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
Difference is the lefties signing up to vote would likely vote labour if Corbyn was in charge, they're signing up to vote with the intention of being part of the party if it lurches left. The Tories are signing up to sabotage labour, with no intention of voting for them. It's not as simple as you've made it out - the left are joining under the hope of labour wanting them, the Tories are joining for some petty agenda - their behaviour is pretty sickening.


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I disagree with that stance - anybody who isn't a Labour supporter is behaving in a pretty sickening manner.

But Labour want this to happen, they want their election to be bought.
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username878267
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#9486
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#9486
(Original post by nebelbon)
It is exactly the same - exterior forces are interfering in an election for what they think is right.
No, it isn't/ because left wingers aren't trying to scupper another party's election, they are choosing someone they believe represents them that they would vote for.
Right wingers are trying to scupper it purposely and choose someone they would never vote for.

It's about as low as it gets.
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Stiff Little Fingers
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#9487
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#9487
(Original post by nebelbon)
I disagree with that stance - anybody who isn't a Labour supporter is behaving in a pretty sickening manner.

But Labour want this to happen, they want their election to be bought.
But the left voters are labour supporters, or at least they were until labour moved rightwards and became a bunch of neo-thatcherites; they're adding their vote in the hope of making labour a party for them again. The tories aren't and were never labour supporters, they're trying to sabotage the party - there in lies the difference, one is ex-members and voters trying to convince the party to return to it's roots, one are a completely external force trying to wreck the party.
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Jammy Duel
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#9488
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#9488
(Original post by Bornblue)
No, it isn't/ because left wingers aren't trying to scupper another party's election, they are choosing someone they believe represents them that they would vote for.
Right wingers are trying to scupper it purposely and choose someone they would never vote for.

It's about as low as it gets.
The right that consider doing it are also trying to get shrift that better represents them, just in a slightly less direct way.

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username456717
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#9489
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#9489
(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
But the left voters are labour supporters, or at least they were until labour moved rightwards and became a bunch of neo-thatcherites; they're adding their vote in the hope of making labour a party for them again. The tories aren't and were never labour supporters, they're trying to sabotage the party - there in lies the difference, one is ex-members and voters trying to convince the party to return to it's roots, one are a completely external force trying to wreck the party.
So the far left voters are voting to get a far left leader whilst the right are voting for the most right wing leader - there is literally no difference. Your bias and spin on it being 'evil tories' stops you from seeing that both sides are doing the same thing.

Everyone who isn't a Labour supporter who does this is disgusting and should be ashamed that they are buying elections and paying for votes.

I'd never do it - I wouldn't want to have the stain of giving money directly to Labour.
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Stiff Little Fingers
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#9490
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#9490
(Original post by nebelbon)
So the far left voters are voting to get a far left leader whilst the right are voting for the most right wing leader - there is literally no difference. Your bias and spin on it being 'evil tories' stops you from seeing that both sides are doing the same thing.

Everyone who isn't a Labour supporter who does this is disgusting and should be ashamed that they are buying elections and paying for votes.

I'd never do it - I wouldn't want to have the stain of giving money directly to Labour.
No, that's not actually how it is at all - the left are signing up and voting for the most left candidate as ex-voters trying to get the party back, the right are signing up and voting for the most left candidate thinking it'll make the party unelectable.
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username878267
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(Original post by Jammy Duel)
The right that consider doing it are also trying to get shrift that better represents them, just in a slightly less direct way.

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It's very underhand and a dirty tactic.
I would never vote in a tory leadership election (unless I have a midlife crisis and lsoe my sole :P). I'd let the party and its supporters/potential voters choose who best to represent them. I wouldn't want to scupper and take advantage of the loopholes in the democratic process.

If you're right wing but feel you may be tempted by Kendall for example, then vote for her but don't scupper another party's contest in voting for a candidate you would never vote for.

As I said the difference with those on the left is that they are voting Corbyn because they genuinely would vote for him which is fine.
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Aph
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#9492
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#9492
(Original post by nebelbon)
So the far left voters are voting to get a far left leader whilst the right are voting for the most right wing leader - there is literally no difference. Your bias and spin on it being 'evil tories' stops you from seeing that both sides are doing the same thing.

Everyone who isn't a Labour supporter who does this is disgusting and should be ashamed that they are buying elections and paying for votes.

I'd never do it - I wouldn't want to have the stain of giving money directly to Labour.
Pretty sure that the right are also voting left because they think it'll damage labour
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username456717
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#9493
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#9493
(Original post by Aph)
Pretty sure that the right are also voting left because they think it'll damage labour
Again that is opinion.
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username456717
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(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
No, that's not actually how it is at all - the left are signing up and voting for the most left candidate as ex-voters trying to get the party back, the right are signing up and voting for the most left candidate thinking it'll make the party unelectable.
I forgot that you could see how everyone is voting! Silly me.

Don't you consider anybody right of the greens to be right wing?
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Stiff Little Fingers
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#9495
(Original post by nebelbon)
I forgot that you could see how everyone is voting! Silly me.

Don't you consider anybody right of the greens to be right wing?
When tory voters signing up have been open about their intentions to vote Corbyn to make the party unelectable, posting things like this on facebook:



I don't think I need to be a mind-reader to see that the tories are signing up to vote Corbyn.

No, I consider anyone right of centre to be right wing - which in practise would be anyone right of the lib dems since they seem the closest to centrists. Immediately right of the greens are the centre-left
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Rakas21
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#9496
(Original post by nebelbon)
Again that is opinion.
I do think it's entirely fair for Tories to sign up and vote for Kendall because they want a softer right for example however the Tories4Corbyn movement is purely about buying a 1983 result for less than £1m.

I shan't be joining at all. I don't agree with trying to screw them up (i have more respect for politics than that) and i still prefer this Tory government to a Kendall Labour opposition as things stand.
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RayApparently
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#9497
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#9497
Show of hands - which of you Greens and Socialists would vote Labour if Corbyn wins?
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James Milibanter
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#9498
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#9498
(Original post by RayApparently)
Show of hands - which of you Greens and Socialists would vote Labour if Corbyn wins?
I reckon every Green would join Labour, if not then they're doing something wrong.
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RayApparently
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#9499
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#9499
(Original post by James Milibanter)
I reckon every Green would join Labour, if not then they're doing something wrong.
He's got my vote then.
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James Milibanter
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#9500
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(Original post by RayApparently)
He's got my vote then.
I mean, think about ALL the people who don't vote because "labour have changed" or "there's no passion in politics", ALL THOSE PEOPLE who don't vote now have someone to vote for, the conservatives are stupid because these people who don't vote are people who would NEVER vote conservative, and yet they're now giving the power to Corbyn, the ONLY candidate capable of enfranchising the disenfranchised.
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