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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    FoI request confirms what was suspected, London University investigation into weekend effect, commissioned by Hunt, found nothing.

    Yet Bruce Keogh (head of NHSEngland) pressured 4 royal colleges to back Hunts statement RE a need to address the "weekend effect" - purely ideological. As we all knew.

    Also, to confirm how petty things have gotten, junior doctors requested an app that they've helped create be used to allocate working hours. Govt rejected it, requiring it to go to tender.*
    You can blame the EU for the last part.
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    Apparently him having been to Tory Party conference in his job as a journalist is a cardinal sin and foolproof evidence he's an establishment stooge... *sigh*
    I see the Standard managed to find two tweets, and those didn't even refer to Owen Jones's blog.

    As for attacks on Jones, this is what he had to say about it.
    " Oh, but stop portraying Corbyn supporters as an abusive, intolerant mob. *Loads* are sharing the blog and responding positively. "
    " Barely anybody has called me a Blairite or a Tory, by the way, apart from a few eccentric oddballs. So can we drop that narrative. Cheers! "
    Owen Jones on Twitter
    reposted from earlier post by ChaoticButterfly.
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    Nice article for inciting racial hatred. The same article said just 1.602 had been settled here since the scheme started, so either more than half are criminals or the figures quoted are historical, without any kind of time reference (could theoretically be since records began). It also specifically mentions 4 charged with rape or assault, so by that can we assume that the unrepresentative headline reference refers to them and not the 896 others?
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    Just finished watching Pride for the first time, thought it was excellent, think it will join the riot club as one of the movies I watch most often.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    You can blame the EU for the last part.
    How so exactly? The docs were prepared to tender to my knowledge and they were blocked from doing so. It was a DoH call.
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    Right, I'm leaving the Skype chat as I've ignored it for days and it has been quite nice to not have the notifications.

    If you need to get me on Skype one-to-one or in a smaller group for something or other then please PM me and I will give you my username.
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    (Original post by Kay_Winters)
    Just finished watching Pride for the first time, thought it was excellent, think it will join the riot club as one of the movies I watch most often.
    In my top 5 movies I've seen, I love it.
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    Its not the sheer numbers that concern me, it was a situation in which Japan were in the process of surrendering, agonising pain and suffering, immeasurable long term environmental damage and setting the precedent of nuclear warfare, which caused, guess what, the Soviets to begin developing nuclear weapons. I'd be intrigued to see had the US not fired because I imagine there still would have been an element of fear in the USSR without physically having to see a nuke in action.

    I despise nuclear weapons, they're too dangerous for ANY nation to possess. That said, I appreciate that sacrifices must be made for winning a war (Downfall is a classic example of this) but it's not as one dimensional as you make out. Some wars are avoidable and the goal of every war shouldn't have to be total victory.
    They were so in the process of surrendering that it took two nuclear weapons days apart and then some more time on top of that to surrender? If they genuinely were on the bring of surrender before the bombing they would have surrendered on the 6th August or 7th when they truly understood what was happening, and some even thought "they can't have many, let's just sit through it."

    Further, such a strong precedent was set that nuclear weapons have not been used since, even in a tactical role, despite requests being made for permission, but I guess it's merely a coincidence that requests were refused, especially coincidental when the enemy is also nuclear armed.

    As for the long term impact, believe it or not the Fallout series does not accurately represent a world 200 years after a nuclear war, it represents a world a few months after (all the mutations aside). Hiroshima and Nagasaki never really stopped being inhabited and dangerously high levels of radiation from a standard nuclear arsenal if used in an all out nuclear exchange would last at most about 6 months.

    Firing has a few advantages over not firing, first is real world testing. It's all well and good setting bombs off in the middle of the desert but that doesn't tell you what they would do to hard targets. The second is it definitely brings it out into the open, the Russians knew anyway but it also telegraphs is to all other potential enemies. Finally it shows a willingness to use the weapon, it's the reason Corbyn would make oir deterrent valueless while May doesn't.

    And on the injuries side, again, I can't say I'm that fussed considering the alternative. Forecasts for just the first 90 days of an invasion have just US fatalities in line with those in the bombings, casualties significantly higher, and numbers even higher still for the Japanese. Those estimates also underestimated significantly the strength of the Japanese defences. On top of that at least some of us in this thread will have nuclear weapons to thank for existing, without them our parents generation would likely have followed so many generations before them in dying in the fields of France, and we would likely be joining them.

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    (Original post by JoeL1994)
    In my top 5 movies I've seen, I love it.
    Not sure it is top five for me but certainly up there, it really inspired me when I have been feeling disillusioned
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    (Original post by Kay_Winters)
    Not sure it is top five for me but certainly up there, it really inspired me when I have been feeling disillusioned
    Same here when I first saw it, a really amazing film. Defo cried a little at the end though...
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    Same here when I first saw it, a really amazing film. Defo cried a little at the end though...
    When it revealed that the main guy died just a couple years later I got teary eyed, but I loved that the Welsh woman went on to be an MP
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    Who on earth voted for the new GD but against the new constitution?! Do they want to mess things up well and truly??
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    Let's see if people learn now from Nigel that a wholesale reform won't work, or whether they will ignore this failure like Nigel with Aph.

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Let's see if people learn now from Nigel that a wholesale reform won't work, or whether they will ignore this failure like Nigel with Aph.

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    A wholesale reform does not work because members are lazy, if members bothered to read the amendments it would work.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Let's see if people learn now from Nigel that a wholesale reform won't work, or whether they will ignore this failure like Nigel with Aph.

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    It's worked in the past twice so far (introduction of the constitution and then GD) so it seems like it has to come from well respected, universally liked, members.
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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    A wholesale reform does not work because members are lazy, if members bothered to read the amendments it would work.
    You even knew it wouldn't work and yet tried anyway

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    You even knew it wouldn't work and yet tried anyway

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    I suspected it would not work, but I agree with Aph, if a member such as Ray proposed an identical wholesale replacement there would be triple the number of ayes.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    They were so in the process of surrendering that it took two nuclear weapons days apart and then some more time on top of that to surrender? If they genuinely were on the bring of surrender before the bombing they would have surrendered on the 6th August or 7th when they truly understood what was happening, and some even thought "they can't have many, let's just sit through it."

    Further, such a strong precedent was set that nuclear weapons have not been used since, even in a tactical role, despite requests being made for permission, but I guess it's merely a coincidence that requests were refused, especially coincidental when the enemy is also nuclear armed.

    As for the long term impact, believe it or not the Fallout series does not accurately represent a world 200 years after a nuclear war, it represents a world a few months after (all the mutations aside). Hiroshima and Nagasaki never really stopped being inhabited and dangerously high levels of radiation from a standard nuclear arsenal if used in an all out nuclear exchange would last at most about 6 months.

    Firing has a few advantages over not firing, first is real world testing. It's all well and good setting bombs off in the middle of the desert but that doesn't tell you what they would do to hard targets. The second is it definitely brings it out into the open, the Russians knew anyway but it also telegraphs is to all other potential enemies. Finally it shows a willingness to use the weapon, it's the reason Corbyn would make oir deterrent valueless while May doesn't.

    And on the injuries side, again, I can't say I'm that fussed considering the alternative. Forecasts for just the first 90 days of an invasion have just US fatalities in line with those in the bombings, casualties significantly higher, and numbers even higher still for the Japanese. Those estimates also underestimated significantly the strength of the Japanese defences. On top of that at least some of us in this thread will have nuclear weapons to thank for existing, without them our parents generation would likely have followed so many generations before them in dying in the fields of France, and we would likely be joining them.

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    Well, actually, during negotiations Japan acknowledged it's comparative weakness and negotiators agreed a surrender, on the condition that the Emperor was not executed. America couldn't grasp that Japan had fanatical illogical support of the Emperor, and to remove him would have been fought against, regardless of what the officials commanded. I would argue that some form of house arrest would have ended the conflict in Japan without Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

    This also explains the delay.

    That point makes sense, although US arming would have caused the USSR to arm quicker, so logically had the US have taken a slower approach, the USSR I imagine would have done the same.

    I agree about Corbyn v May, every PM should just say Yes, but without pride. You should feel awful for using it.
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    Well, actually, during negotiations Japan acknowledged it's comparative weakness and negotiators agreed a surrender, on the condition that the Emperor was not executed. America couldn't grasp that Japan had fanatical illogical support of the Emperor, and to remove him would have been fought against, regardless of what the officials commanded. I would argue that some form of house arrest would have ended the conflict in Japan without Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

    This also explains the delay.

    That point makes sense, although US arming would have caused the USSR to arm quicker, so logically had the US have taken a slower approach, the USSR I imagine would have done the same.

    I agree about Corbyn v May, every PM should just say Yes, but without pride. You should feel awful for using it.
    History is rather in disagreement with you on that one given that even after both bombings the cabinet still couldn't bring itself to surrender until the Emperor was brought into it who then faced a coup because of it. The conditions on the emperor were merely that the government structure of Japan are not changed, other than that it was practically unconditional from what I can find.

    I don't think you quite grasp what sort of delay we're talking about here anyway, the Battle of Okinawa ended in June, 6 weeks later they still weren't surendering despite it being a major war of attrition there with most of Japan's cities already being destroyed by conventional bombing.

    As for the USSR for some reason arming slower, not a chance, until they had nuclear weapons of their own they had little sound defence against them, especially as US production picked up and the technology advanced so they went from tactical to strategic weapons. When the other guy has a big stick to hit you with you make sure you have a big one to hit them back with, just in case.
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    Unsurprising to read in the paper earlier today that the BMA claims that there will be difficulty recruiting JDs because they would all be ****ing off to Australia was a load of **** with more JDs being recruited this year than last year, and a slightly greater percentage of vacancies being filled.
 
 
 
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