Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing? Watch

Poll: Should Scotland be an independent country?
YES (299)
32.12%
NO (632)
67.88%
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Boab
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#9621
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#9621
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This fat waste of space is Conservative MSP Alex Johnstone. He last week accused the Euromillions winners who donated money to YES Scotland of being pressured into donating.

They responded...

“As lifelong supporters of independence, it would be strange if we did not support the Yes Scotland campaign. So that is what we have done, nothing more and nothing less. No one bullied or targeted us, as has been suggested in recent newspaper articles.
The only “targeting” has been by an MSP who chose to express his “concern” for us by implying we have been, at best, naïve, and, at worst, duped. Would he, we wonder, have felt the same concern had our contribution supported his cause?”

Rather than keep his mouth shut and accept their rebuke or even apologise, he came out with this ditty...

“This letter goes some way to proving my point, and I hope they didn’t come under any pressure to write it.”



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Boab
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#9622
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#9622


From the dog's mouth!
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Good bloke
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#9623
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#9623
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-27329425

Is there no bandwagon the SNP won't leap on, even one that obviously has only three wheels and two of those square?

If any Scot's vote on independence is going to be swayed by how quickly a Scottish team can be entered into the Olympic Games they don't deserve a vote, but hey ho!

In fact the British IOC member, Craig Reedie, has stated that this is an over-optimistic pipedream as iScotland simply won't be able to join in time (and he should know). You have to join the UN before you can join the IOC.

Before someone jumps in and accuses the Olympic movement of bluff and bullying bluster, let me explain that the IOC changed its rules in 1996 (after the ex-communist countries had been allowed to compete as the CIS, a non-country, and Bermuda and Hong Kong had been allowed in as an independent British territories) and rationalised the pre-requisites for membership.

Since then, a country must both (a) have a recognised national Olympic committee (NOC) and (b) be recognised by the UN as independent. Bermuda, Hong Kong and Puerto Rico continued to be recognised though.
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Boab
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#9624
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#9624
(Original post by Good bloke)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-27329425

Is there no bandwagon the SNP won't leap on, even one that obviously has only three wheels and two of those square?
You garner that from a report on which the Sports Minister has been approached for her opinion, and conclude that is leaping on a bandwagon?

Level-headed. Better Together have commented too, but they wouldn't stoop so low would they? :rolleyes:

Looks like Midlander made a comment...
Team Scotland will have loads of support from SNP supporters, as they sit in front of the council flat located, dole paid-for plasma, stuffing themselves with chips.
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Psyk
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#9625
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#9625
(Original post by Good bloke)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-27329425

Is there no bandwagon the SNP won't leap on, even one that obviously has only three wheels and two of those square?

If any Scot's vote on independence is going to be swayed by how quickly a Scottish team can be entered into the Olympic Games they don't deserve a vote, but hey ho!

In fact the British IOC member, Craig Reedie, has stated that this is an over-optimistic pipedream as iScotland simply won't be able to join in time (and he should know). You have to join the UN before you can join the IOC.

Before someone jumps in and accuses the Olympic movement of bluff and bullying bluster, let me explain that the IOC changed its rules in 1996 (after the ex-communist countries had been allowed to compete as the CIS, a non-country, and Bermuda and Hong Kong had been allowed in as an independent British territories) and rationalised the pre-requisites for membership.

Since then, a country must both (a) have a recognised national Olympic committee (NOC) and (b) be recognised by the UN as independent. Bermuda, Hong Kong and Puerto Rico continued to be recognised though.
To be fair, joining the UN doesn't take long. South Sudan joined the UN less than a week after becoming independent. No idea about IOC membership though.
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Boab
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#9626
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#9626
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No trend towards YES? :lolz:
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MatureStudent36
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#9627
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#9627
(Original post by Boab)
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No trend towards YES? :lolz:
Here's the averages from the polling for the last 12 months.

people have already made their minds up.
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Midlander
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#9628
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#9628
(Original post by Boab)
You garner that from a report on which the Sports Minister has been approached for her opinion, and conclude that is leaping on a bandwagon?

Level-headed. Better Together have commented too, but they wouldn't stoop so low would they? :rolleyes:

Looks like Midlander made a comment...
Team Scotland will have loads of support from SNP supporters, as they sit in front of the council flat located, dole paid-for plasma, stuffing themselves with chips.
The Comedy King strikes once again.


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sauzee_4
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#9629
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#9629
(Original post by Reformed2010)
I know that's why somewhere in my posts I said 'medium to long term'. However in the short time it will still have to join the fiscal compact, banking union and Schengen area. While legally obliged to join the Euro when it meets the criteria, which could be within the medium to long time. My point still remains. Why is giving up sovereignty to have rule from London unbearable but having rule from Brussels inherently better? If having decisions closer to home is a key pledge by anti British Unionist. It's immediately contraindicated by having Brussels increasingly interfere Scotland's economy. London should not impose austerity but Brussels is better serve to do so?

The SNP's position and those leading the Yes campaign makes no sense. They are claiming a portion of sovereignty for the people of Scotland only to hand it back to Brussels. Take the powers to set your interest rates from London, give it to Brussels. Take the powers to set your own budget from London, give it Brussels. Take powers to regulate your own banks from London, give it to Brussels. Take powers to manage your state borders from London, give it to Brussels.

Now I'm not against a more integrated European Union, in fact I favour a fully fledged federated EU. But I'm not contradicting myself by arguing British politicians should not legislative over me but European politicians can, without a logical explanation.

The logic of anti British & pro European unionist is as follows: "British MP's & Prime Minister is telling us what to do. We must leave to save our sovereignty! European MEP's and Commission President, you tell us to cut our budget? okay then."

London bad. Brussels good. Why?
To be honest with you I've not fully formed my opinion on whether we should be in the EU or not, facts are though that we are in just now and if we gained independence I'm sure we could have our own in/out referendum on that too.
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sauzee_4
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#9630
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#9630
(Original post by Midlander)
He certainly likes talking about England does our Alex. He ignores a very simple point-that courtesy of the Barnett formula Scots get an extra £3.5k per head spent on them than in England and the Welsh get an extra £1k per head. It's that kind of disparity that allows the Scottish government to offer things like free prescriptions and which it risks losing by itself unless taxes go up.


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Midlander you are obviously hoping that if you reiterate something enough times people will start to believe it.

Scotland receives more spending from the UK treasury because for the last 30 years, every single one of them, we have contributed more tax per head to it.
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MatureStudent36
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#9631
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#9631
(Original post by sauzee_4)
Midlander you are obviously hoping that if you reiterate something enough times people will start to believe it.

Scotland receives more spending from the UK treasury because for the last 30 years, every single one of them, we have contributed more tax per head to it.
No we haven't .

Incidentally, why do you ignore things that happened over 30 years ago?
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Midlander
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#9632
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#9632
(Original post by sauzee_4)
Midlander you are obviously hoping that if you reiterate something enough times people will start to believe it.

Scotland receives more spending from the UK treasury because for the last 30 years, every single one of them, we have contributed more tax per head to it.
That doesn't quite justify why Scotland is given £2k per head more than it contributes. Also England contributes more per head than Wales and NI but receives less in public spending than both.

Whichever way you look at it England is underfunded which is why things like free prescriptions are uneconomical to offer. The Welsh and Northern Irish don't complain because they get a very good deal and they understand that. Scots however seem to think they are the most important people in the UK and should get whatever they want.


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Midlander
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#9633
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#9633
(Original post by sauzee_4)
To be honest with you I've not fully formed my opinion on whether we should be in the EU or not, facts are though that we are in just now and if we gained independence I'm sure we could have our own in/out referendum on that too.
By default Scotland would be out. Any referendum would be on whether to apply for membership and which EU laws Scotland shouldn't have to follow.


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sauzee_4
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#9634
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(Original post by Midlander)
By default Scotland would be out. Any referendum would be on whether to apply for membership and which EU laws Scotland shouldn't have to follow.


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Well in that case I'm sure there'd be many Scots delighted, not all Scots want to be in the EU.
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MatureStudent36
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#9635
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(Original post by sauzee_4)
Well in that case I'm sure there'd be many Scots delighted, not all Scots want to be in the EU.
So why has no referendum been promised by the YeSNP campaign?

Why are the YeSNP grief whoring about the proposed EU referendum then?
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Midlander
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#9636
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(Original post by sauzee_4)
Well in that case I'm sure there'd be many Scots delighted, not all Scots want to be in the EU.
They won't get a choice initially, Scotland will have to reapply for all the memberships it had as part of the UK. Funny though, when debates on EU membership happen in England people are labelled xenophobes, when it happens in Scotland it's a perfectly reasonable debate to have.
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MatureStudent36
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#9637
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(Original post by Midlander)
They won't get a choice initially, Scotland will have to reapply for all the memberships it had as part of the UK. Funny though, when debates on EU membership happen in England people are labelled xenophobes, when it happens in Scotland it's a perfectly reasonable debate to have.
You've obviously seen the news about the YeSNP brigade outside the UKIP rally then.

Shouts of Nazi scum and facists were heard.
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Blue Meltwater
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#9638
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#9638
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
You've obviously seen the news about the YeSNP brigade outside the UKIP rally then.

Shouts of Nazi scum and facists were heard.
The SNP had nothing to do with that protest - I know personally at least a dozen people who were there, none of whom have any affiliation with the SNP. It amazes me how people still don't get that the SNP no longer controls the grassroots independence movement.

That said, I agree I'm uncomfortable with the tone of that protest, which is why I didn't go myself.
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MatureStudent36
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#9639
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#9639
(Original post by Blue Meltwater)
The SNP had nothing to do with that protest - I know personally at least a dozen people who were there, none of whom have any affiliation with the SNP. It amazes me how people still don't get that the SNP no longer controls the grassroots independence movement.

That said, I agree I'm uncomfortable with the tone of that protest, which is why I didn't go myself.
What grass roots movement? A few low level fringe organisations under the dominate SNP banner? That grass roots movement?
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Midlander
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#9640
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#9640
(Original post by Blue Meltwater)
The SNP had nothing to do with that protest - I know personally at least a dozen people who were there, none of whom have any affiliation with the SNP. It amazes me how people still don't get that the SNP no longer controls the grassroots independence movement.

That said, I agree I'm uncomfortable with the tone of that protest, which is why I didn't go myself.
I've seen Mike Russell, an SNP henchman, say that the debate on immigration and the EU in England is driven by xenophobia. I guarantee if a Scotsman asked him similar questions he wouldn't be throwing that label around. He would put forward the usual self-righteous nonsense about Scots being more socially aware than their neighbours 'south of the border'.

UKIP are not opposed to immigration. They are opposed to unrestricted immigration-that is not an unreasonable stance in my view. They also advocate an English parliament, one of the few parties which does.
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