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    Basically the yougov poll is because leave voters are more likely to be ideologues, and remain voters have probably noticed that most peoples' lives are still the same.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Watching highlights from the Labour leadership debate tonight.
    Smith certainly is a step up from Corbyn but he's not the most convincing.
    I'm unsure whether his very left wing manifesto is an attempt to woo the base or if he genuinely believes it. Under Corbyn I can see the party collapsing, I don't think Labour will win an election under Smith (or even get that close) but I do think he has more of a chance of stopping the party from totally collapsing.
    Smith: the man pledging to reduce the minimum wage

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Smith: the man pledging to reduce the minimum wage

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    He is?
    I must say i'm struggling to gain interest in this leadership contest. Corbyn is useless but the failed coup just showed the sheer incompetence of those looking to replace him.
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    Yeah the forecasts are just for much reduced growth, possibly a recession, higher unemployment and inflation and a currency crisis but other than that it's all fine! After all, we've got a #LongTermEconomicPlan of ruining the economy to buy the Tory boys some votes from UKIP
    The reduced growth was expected post Brexit however both the IMF and treasury essentially concluded that long term growth would be less than half a percent lower out to 2030. The uncertainty is causing our gloom now but the UK will do fine out of the EU. Anybody that voted Brexit without accepting there'd be a few hard years is an idiot (then again, i don't really support referenda for that reason).

    The latest estimation of the effect on unemployment is for ~300,000 job losses over the next year. That suggests that the net rise in unemployment will be near zero. Not a significant problem and even on gross, it's only 1% of the labour force.

    Inflation is not desirable to myself but it's a price i'm willing to pay and it's not like it's at 10%.

    What currency crisis.People conveniently forget that the pound had already fallen a little over 10% in the 2 years before Brexit, another 10% off is hardly back braking even if i am somebody that prefers a stronger currency.

    (Original post by cBay)
    The cut to interest rates is a desperate attempt to paper over the cracks of an economic system that is beyond saving. The whole argument behind neoliberal economics is that it encourages private investment. Sure it worked for a while, despite all the negatives that came with it, but if they need to cut interest rates so low to try and stimulate investment then it is clearly no longer working. It's 8 years since the recession and investment is still at ridiculously low levels, wages are still well below their pre-recession level, millions upon millions of jobs are unstable, savings are practically worthless and the growth we have had is simply not being felt by your average peasants across the country. How in hell are we suppose to cope with another recession (we were due another one within a few years regardless of brexit) when we still haven't recovered from the previous one? Sooner or later, advocates of neoliberalism are just going to have to accept that it has failed and we need a change of direction.
    Your logic is somewhat flawed in that it would only be on point if negative business investment were a long term threat rather than a reactionary short term effect, further we know that state controlled economies do not eliminate boom and bust.

    The later half of your post does raise valid concerns and points towards significant structural reforms which are needed to the UK economy and dare i say a degree of regulatory intervention from the state (one idea i read was that firms with 10%+ revenue growth could be mandated to increase wages for the lowest 25% of employees by say 5% - rewarding growth) however i don't feel we need to abandon the general ideological position of our nation, simply sand the rough edges.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    The reduced growth was expected post Brexit however both the IMF and treasury essentially concluded that long term growth would be less than half a percent lower out to 2030. The uncertainty is causing our gloom now but the UK will do fine out of the EU. Anybody that voted Brexit without accepting there'd be a few hard years is an idiot (then again, i don't really support referenda for that reason).

    The latest estimation of the effect on unemployment is for ~300,000 job losses over the next year. That suggests that the net rise in unemployment will be near zero. Not a significant problem and even on gross, it's only 1% of the labour force.

    Inflation is not desirable to myself but it's a price i'm willing to pay and it's not like it's at 10%.

    What currency crisis.People conveniently forget that the pound had already fallen a little over 10% in the 2 years before Brexit, another 10% off is hardly back braking even if i am somebody that prefers a stronger currency.



    Your logic is somewhat flawed in that it would only be on point if negative business investment were a long term threat rather than a reactionary short term effect, further we know that state controlled economies do not eliminate boom and bust.

    The later half of your post does raise valid concerns and points towards significant structural reforms which are needed to the UK economy and dare i say a degree of regulatory intervention from the state (one idea i read was that firms with 10%+ revenue growth could be mandated to increase wages for the lowest 25% of employees by say 5% - rewarding growth) however i don't feel we need to abandon the general ideological position of our nation, simply sand the rough edges.
    I'm sure a lot of people would disagree with you about 300,000 job losses not being a problem. At least 300,000 and their families, I'd say. And this is while we're still in the free market: failing to negotiate EFTA membership because May needs to stop enough Poles coming here to win the next election is when **** really hits the fan.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Watching highlights from the Labour leadership debate tonight.
    Smith certainly is a step up from Corbyn but he's not the most convincing.
    I'm unsure whether his very left wing manifesto is an attempt to woo the base or if he genuinely believes it. Under Corbyn I can see the party collapsing, I don't think Labour will win an election under Smith (or even get that close) but I do think he has more of a chance of stopping the party from totally collapsing.
    I suspect Corbyn and co are not stupid and don't really expect to win the next election but that's not their primary goal. Their primary goal is to create a pure party which can eventually take advantage when in 2030 ect.. people finally want the Tories gone. I suspect they don't even care that they'll probably not secure a majority because the nationalists and greens (and Lib Dems to a lesser degree) agree with many of their primary goals.

    That if anything makes Corbyn and co more scary. A pure Labour in hoc to nationalists would see the union gone on probably 2 fronts (i trust Wales to stay), the destruction of UK defense and general wholesale changes in a bad direction.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    I suspect Corbyn and co are not stupid and don't really expect to win the next election but that's not their primary goal. Their primary goal is to create a pure party which can eventually take advantage when in 2030 ect.. people finally want the Tories gone. I suspect they don't even care that they'll probably not secure a majority because the nationalists and greens (and Lib Dems to a lesser degree) agree with many of their primary goals.

    That if anything makes Corbyn and co more scary. A pure Labour in hoc to nationalists would see the union gone on probably 2 fronts (i trust Wales to stay), the destruction of UK defense and general wholesale changes in a bad direction.
    Personally I think Wales will go eventually, but we are many, many decades away from it yet. The economic and infrastructure ties make it a lot more secure than Scotland, but eventually the distinct national identity (which will be kept in place by nationalist pandering from the Welsh Government and Assembly) will make the difference. I'd be amazed if it was by 2030 though.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    He is?
    I must say i'm struggling to gain interest in this leadership contest. Corbyn is useless but the failed coup just showed the sheer incompetence of those looking to replace him.
    He pledged £8.25 when Osborne has already put the mechanism in place for that with over 25s and the projections show around about £9 either way by 2020

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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    I suspect Corbyn and co are not stupid and don't really expect to win the next election but that's not their primary goal. Their primary goal is to create a pure party which can eventually take advantage when in 2030 ect.. people finally want the Tories gone. I suspect they don't even care that they'll probably not secure a majority because the nationalists and greens (and Lib Dems to a lesser degree) agree with many of their primary goals.

    That if anything makes Corbyn and co more scary. A pure Labour in hoc to nationalists would see the union gone on probably 2 fronts (i trust Wales to stay), the destruction of UK defense and general wholesale changes in a bad direction.
    The Unions already gone, the next time Scotland get a referendum they'll vote to Leave, especially with the EU seemingly willing to accept them (dependent perhaps on verifying Spain's veto)
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Watching highlights from the Labour leadership debate tonight.
    Smith certainly is a step up from Corbyn but he's not the most convincing.
    I'm unsure whether his very left wing manifesto is an attempt to woo the base or if he genuinely believes it. Under Corbyn I can see the party collapsing, I don't think Labour will win an election under Smith (or even get that close) but I do think he has more of a chance of stopping the party from totally collapsing.
    I agree with most of this, although while Corbyn continues to come across as dull, Smith's main arguments were entirely speculative, "more money for Wales, more money for everyone, more infrastructure spending, better health care, less tax avoidance" etc. based on absolutely nothing. For me then, Smith didn't do enough.

    I do like that Smith's approach is very much a bit socialist, but I totally back you about his actual policy. I fear that his rhetoric will get Lefties to vote him but he'll be dictated to by the more "central" members of the PLP. Either he continues this rhetoric (in which case I can see him gaining many more central votes than Corbyn would) or he changes tack and he campaigns under different slogans, where surely he'll get torn to shreds.

    Made a great point about Trident, but still back Corbyn
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Smith: the man pledging to reduce the minimum wage

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    Don't forget supporter of Equality of Outcome...so.....a communist.
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    Smoking a hamlet today on my lunch break since I was down the pub last night, got told that every day I look more and more like a tory MP

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Smoking a hamlet today on my lunch break since I was down the pub last night, got told that every day I look more and more like a tory MP

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    What's your job?
    I think of Jacob RM when people say they look like a tory.

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Smoking a hamlet today on my lunch break since I was down the pub last night, got told that every day I look more and more like a tory MP

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    *

    Maybe the Chancellor should increase the cigar tax. Filthy habit.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    What's your job?
    I think of Jacob RM when people say they look like a tory.

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    Work in accountancy, but probably the best dressed there except perhaps one or two of the management accountants, blue tie (but not one of my Tory ties), cigarette case etc

    (Original post by barnetlad)
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    Maybe the Chancellor should increase the cigar tax. Filthy habit.
    THEY AREN'T CIGARS!

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    I know I say the polariat are idiots, and they are for the most part. But this gives me hope:
    https://yougov.co.uk/opi/surveys/res...69071a4/social
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    (Original post by Aph)
    I know I say the polariat are idiots, and they are for the most part. But this gives me hope:
    https://yougov.co.uk/opi/surveys/res...69071a4/social
    I was surprised that so many people had a view at all- would have expected more don't knows. I looked at some of the other surveys- only 33% of people think darts should be a sport, which is disappointing. Maybe more would think so if Michael Van Gerwen was British!
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    I've heard you guys like the Olympics so how about a bit of bingo? :sexface:

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    Not as good as Boycott bingo!
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    I hope members of the House are better dressed than some of those I have seen whilst out shopping. Cellulite which is visible and excessive make up is not a good look.
 
 
 
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