Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing? Watch

Poll: Should Scotland be an independent country?
YES (299)
32.12%
NO (632)
67.88%
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L i b
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#9701
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#9701
(Original post by 1tartanarmy)
You did not have an empire before the act of of union...
Oh no?

You don't have a say on whether Scotland can leave or not....only Scotland does. The edinburgh agreement was made but that was made in the principles of democracy.
Actually, in accordance with democratic principles, she does. It is her elected representatives, in Parliament, who will decide - that is true of all MPs, from any part of the UK.

The Edinburgh Agreement is only morally binding against the present government, not parliament. So she does have a say, because this is a democracy.



... sometimes you have to think "more's the pity", though.
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Midlander
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#9702
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#9702
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/e...ays-NIESR.html

If you don't want a part of it, go ahead and vote Yes. Feel free to keep blaming Westminster though.
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Boab
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#9703
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#9703
(Original post by Midlander)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/e...ays-NIESR.html

If you don't want a part of it, go ahead and vote Yes. Feel free to keep blaming Westminster though.
And herein lies the problem. You cite an article that the UK economy is doing well, and that it may well be, but it sure as hell isn't helping those that need it the most!

So again...

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Midlander
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#9704
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#9704
(Original post by Boab)
And herein lies the problem. You cite an article that the UK economy is doing well, and that it may well be, but it sure as hell isn't helping those that need it the most!

So again...

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Really? So increasing the tax free allowance to £10k and committing hundreds of millions to job creation doesn't qualify for that in your eyes?
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1tartanarmy
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#9705
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#9705
(Original post by Midlander)
Really? So increasing the tax free allowance to £10k and committing hundreds of millions to job creation doesn't qualify for that in your eyes?
Thats just tinkering...massive change is needed. Here is more on what is really happening under this economic progress you claim of.

The True Cost of Austerity - Dennis Curran: http://youtu.be/sIiq86KbYmo
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Midlander
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#9706
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#9706
(Original post by 1tartanarmy)
Thats just tinkering...massive change is needed. Here is more on what is really happening under this economic progress you claim of.

The True Cost of Austerity - Dennis Curran: http://youtu.be/sIiq86KbYmo
So it's just tinkering to give people thousands of pounds extra year? I know I could sure have used that when half my wages were going on rent a few years ago.

As for austerity-it is a harsh necessity of restoring the economy to strength.
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Boab
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#9707
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#9707
(Original post by Midlander)
So it's just tinkering to give people thousands of pounds extra year? I know I could sure have used that when half my wages were going on rent a few years ago.

As for austerity-it is a harsh necessity of restoring the economy to strength.
Bingo again! And who is it benefiting? The rich, not the poor!

You are quite happy to be a part of a country where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, but count me out.
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Boab
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#9708
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#9708
(Original post by Midlander)
Really? So increasing the tax free allowance to £10k and committing hundreds of millions to job creation doesn't qualify for that in your eyes?
And none of these thousands you claim people are gaining very year (I know nobody that is thousands better off due to these measures), prevents this country being a mess. I hope you watch that video posted above. It's disgusting!

I am ashamed to be living in a country where this is true...

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1tartanarmy
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#9709
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#9709
(Original post by Midlander)
So it's just tinkering to give people thousands of pounds extra year? I know I could sure have used that when half my wages were going on rent a few years ago.

As for austerity-it is a harsh necessity of restoring the economy to strength.
People starving is a harsh necessity?

Instead of letting people starve...austerity could have been done by maybe not spending money on nuclear weapons?...I know what I think is more important.
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Midlander
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#9710
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#9710
(Original post by 1tartanarmy)
People starving is a harsh necessity?

Instead of letting people starve...austerity could have been done by maybe not spending money on nuclear weapons?...I know what I think is more important.
Now that isn't what I said is it. We can't spend money we haven't got and it is a failing of the previous governments as much as the present one that public expenditure was allowed to go unchecked and make cuts necessary in the first place.

Should cuts be made in other areas? I agree-but you can't accuse the present government of doing bugger all.
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Midlander
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#9711
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#9711
(Original post by Boab)
Bingo again! And who is it benefiting? The rich, not the poor!

You are quite happy to be a part of a country where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, but count me out.
Unemployment goes down and less of people's earnings goes to the taxman and you still think Joe Bloggs is being swindled. It was the Labour government which got a comfy majority in Scotland who racked up debt like it was going out of fashion and paved the way for resulting cuts.

Predictably people use austerity to bash the Tories with but it is their predecessors who should be under arguably greater scrutiny for making this a necessity.
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Choo.choo
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#9712
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#9712
(Original post by Midlander)
Unemployment goes down and less of people's earnings goes to the taxman and you still think Joe Bloggs is being swindled. It was the Labour government which got a comfy majority in Scotland who racked up debt like it was going out of fashion and paved the way for resulting cuts.

Predictably people use austerity to bash the Tories with but it is their predecessors who should be under arguably greater scrutiny for making this a necessity.
Australia is about to invest 80billion Australian dollars in capital projects on infrastructure to create jobs and raise tax revenues to cut its budget deficit. That could have been the UK government - a decision that would have prevented the need to cut things. Like I have already said, investment in capital projects by borrowing to invest is the way to stimulate growth. Telling people that austerity is the only way to get out of the catastrophe that was created is ludicrous.
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Midlander
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#9713
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#9713
(Original post by Boab)
And none of these thousands you claim people are gaining very year (I know nobody that is thousands better off due to these measures), prevents this country being a mess. I hope you watch that video posted above. It's disgusting!

I am ashamed to be living in a country where this is true...

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What a surprise you don't know anybody who benefits. You don't need to talk to me about food banks considering my home city gets news articles on the very subject. Coventry's food banks are the busiest in the UK, despite Scots here seeming to think they are alone in having them:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...e-9263042.html

This is far from the only country having to undergo such measures, though, and if you think an iScotland with its multi billion pound deficit would be exempt from them you are sorely mistaken. We can't spend what we ain't got and that is not just down to this present government. The party Scotland sends most to Westminster every general election left this debt as their legacy.
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Choo.choo
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#9714
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#9714
(Original post by Midlander)
We can't spend what we ain't got and that is not just down to this present government. The party Scotland sends most to Westminster every general election left this debt as their legacy.
So we can't borrow to invest then? I am sorry, that is just lies. That is how governments raise money they don't collect in tax receipts, a deficit in other words. They borrow that money from the markets, invest that money in capital projects, and the borrowed money is paid back from the investment. Anything above that is money for the Scottish Treasury.
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Midlander
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#9715
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#9715
(Original post by Choo.choo)
Australia is about to invest 80billion Australian dollars in capital projects on infrastructure to create jobs and raise tax revenues to cut its budget deficit. That could have been the UK government - a decision that would have prevented the need to cut things. Like I have already said, investment in capital projects by borrowing to invest is the way to stimulate growth. Telling people that austerity is the only way to get out of the catastrophe that was created is ludicrous.
Aren't you looking silly:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/n...-by-government

Also, the Labour party made a 50% tax rate for the rich one of its last acts in government. The problem is not the level of taxes but preventing high earners from avoiding paying.
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Midlander
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#9716
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#9716
(Original post by Choo.choo)
So we can't borrow to invest then? I am sorry, that is just lies. That is how governments raise money they don't collect in tax receipts, a deficit in other words. They borrow that money from the markets, invest that money in capital projects, and the borrowed money is paid back from the investment. Anything above that is money for the Scottish Treasury.
Except benefits aren't an investment. As I have just shown you in the post above and in several before, the UK government is making investments in local economies across England with the specific aim of regenerating industries in these areas. Coventry's, as an example:

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/new...illion-6511802

Half of the funding comes from the government with the other half from private sources. Do you still think Westminster isn't investing in the UK economy?
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1tartanarmy
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#9717
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#9717
(Original post by Midlander)
What a surprise you don't know anybody who benefits. You don't need to talk to me about food banks considering my home city gets news articles on the very subject. Coventry's food banks are the busiest in the UK, despite Scots here seeming to think they are alone in having them:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...e-9263042.html

This is far from the only country having to undergo such measures, though, and if you think an iScotland with its multi billion pound deficit would be exempt from them you are sorely mistaken. We can't spend what we ain't got and that is not just down to this present government. The party Scotland sends most to Westminster every general election left this debt as their legacy.
We are not saying we are the only people getting swindled...everyone outside the very south of England is. Just because there are foodbanks in conventry, liverpool or swansea doesn't mean we can't complain about having them here. In fact I feel that many people in this island are turning a blind eye to it in comparison to us in Scotland...somone has to say that its just unnacceptable.

This "its a neccisity" argument is just inhumane. There are people starving in the year 2014 in the UK. Unacceptable. Those people don't need tax savings on their earnings (single mums dont have earnings), those people dont need nuclear weapons or high speed rail links...they need welfare to support themeselves and their kids....at the goverment are saying "no money and hence food for you...you dont deserve it"

Shocking that you can defend that.
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MatureStudent36
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#9718
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#9718
(Original post by 1tartanarmy)
Thats just tinkering...massive change is needed. Here is more on what is really happening under this economic progress you claim of.

The True Cost of Austerity - Dennis Curran: http://youtu.be/sIiq86KbYmo
Just a pity the SNP couldn't have used the already existing tax raising powers that they already have access to in Scotland.
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MatureStudent36
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#9719
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#9719
(Original post by 1tartanarmy)
We are not saying we are the only people getting swindled...everyone outside the very south of England is. Just because there are foodbanks in conventry, liverpool or swansea doesn't mean we can't complain about having them here. In fact I feel that many people in this island are turning a blind eye to it in comparison to us in Scotland...somone has to say that its just unnacceptable.

This "its a neccisity" argument is just inhumane. There are people starving in the year 2014 in the UK. Unacceptable. Those people don't need tax savings on their earnings (single mums dont have earnings), those people dont need nuclear weapons or high speed rail links...they need welfare to support themeselves and their kids....at the goverment are saying "no money and hence food for you...you dont deserve it"

Shocking that you can defend that.
How is the SE of England getting treated any differently? Other of course than the lower per capita government spend that they receive.

People aren't starving.

You do know that Norway has seen an increase in the use of food banks don't you?
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MatureStudent36
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#9720
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#9720
(Original post by Boab)
Bingo again! And who is it benefiting? The rich, not the poor!

You are quite happy to be a part of a country where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, but count me out.
Actually, everybody looses out on it, but as we can see with the UKs current austerity measures, it's resulted in the fastest GDP growth of any developed nation and the largest number of jobs the UK has ever known.
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