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    (Original post by jam277)
    Yeah I agree. He offers something, his experience, his range of passing and his freekicks/corners is quite valuable. Gerrard simply is unable to cope with the physical demands, but I think if he had hardworking players with good technical ability next to him(like Pirlo has with Vidal+Pogba+Marchisio) then he'd do better than he currently is doing now. Although that's just stating the obvious.
    Gerrard would fit in perfectly at Juventus. I said that when he announced his move abroad - if he doesn't return to us on loan, I wouldn't be surprised if he goes to Serie A.
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    Wonder how things will shape up when Toure returns.
    He was our best defender before he left for ACoN - will Rodgers sideline him or move Can in to midfield?
    He'll never drop Sakho or Skrtel.
    Lucas is excelling in DM at the moment and Rodgers likely wants Can to have more CB experience, so personally i don't see how Toure fits in other than replacing Lovren on the bench.

    Ivory Coast are in the semi-finals so it'll be a little while longer before he returns anyway - he would "theoretically" be back in time for the Spurs game, so it's nice to have that option if we have any fitness problems with our next few congested games.

    The issue is that our defence has been decent recently so nobody warrants being dropped, but Toure has been great for us this season and he arguably doesn't deserve to be benched either.
    Tough call.
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    Seahawks' play call in the Super Bowl last night arguably the worst decision in sporting history bar Rodgers not parking the bus against Chelsea at Anfield last season.
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    (Original post by Lúcio)
    Wonder how things will shape up when Toure returns.
    He was our best defender before he left for ACoN - will Rodgers sideline him or move Can in to midfield?
    He'll never drop Sakho or Skrtel.
    Lucas is excelling in DM at the moment and Rodgers likely wants Can to have more CB experience, so personally i don't see how Toure fits in other than replacing Lovren on the bench.

    Ivory Coast are in the semi-finals so it'll be a little while longer before he returns anyway - he would "theoretically" be back in time for the Spurs game, so it's nice to have that option if we have any fitness problems with our next few congested games.

    The issue is that our defence has been decent recently so nobody warrants being dropped, but Toure has been great for us this season and he arguably doesn't deserve to be benched either.
    Tough call.
    You don't change a winning team. Toure has to fight for it. Can doesn't deserve to be dropped, nor does Lucas or Henderson who would make way in midfield.

    Will be good to have Toure back as he's useful backup though.
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    (Original post by Gob Bluth)
    You don't change a winning team. Toure has to fight for it. Can doesn't deserve to be dropped, nor does Lucas or Henderson who would make way in midfield.

    Will be good to have Toure back as he's useful backup though.
    I agree, it's just a harsh dilemma because he hasn't done anything wrong except play for his country.

    Definitely; having Toure as sub instead of Lovren makes a world of difference.
    I hope Rodgers doesn't give Lovren much more of a chance tbh, he just hasn't worked.
    Toure may be old but he can put in a performance and I'd be happy to keep him for another year as back-up.

    It's really weird how our worst defender last season suddenly became our best performer at one point.
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    (Original post by jam277)
    We're talking about different seasons here. I mean 12/13 in terms of Sturridge+Coutinho reinvigorating the side mid season, not 13/14. Think you've got the wrong end of the stick. I was talking about 13/14 with regards to Sturridge winning points and making pivotal goals to your title challenge.

    Also wrt player development transpiring to the next season. I credit that to Brendan Rodgers. Rodgers was the man who made Suarez a world class player, prior to that he was a very talented player who missed sitters and wasn't clinical enough.

    I'm not trying to dig Rodgers with the Sturridge Coutinho comments, but were it not for those two coming in, you lot would have been a much weaker side than you are now, simply because Suarez couldn't do everything and Sterling was a 17-18 year old kid who was never going to be playing week in week out in his first full season in English Football.

    Yeah I agree. He offers something, his experience, his range of passing and his freekicks/corners is quite valuable. Gerrard simply is unable to cope with the physical demands, but I think if he had hardworking players with good technical ability next to him(like Pirlo has with Vidal+Pogba+Marchisio) then he'd do better than he currently is doing now. Although that's just stating the obvious.
    Well Rodgers turned Sturridge from a media hate figure, peripheral Chelsea youth into a proven, near world class goalscorer. And Rodgers turned Coutinho from an unknown Inter outcast into one of the better young talents in Europe. If he gets the slack for signing Balotelli and Lovren then he also gets the credit for Sturridge and Coutinho (tbf, he can get the credit for those two, and not the slack for the other two, because obviously it's widely speculated that Balo wasn't his signing).

    Henderson/Allen are pretty hardworking (and outstanding defensively by the numbers) and only just short of Vidal/Marchisio, so Gerrard has had the protection (and excelled in our diamond last year). I just think his own performance levels have dipped and he's mentally struggling. His dead ball isn't as good as last year (13 goals and 13 assists from DM? fuark) and he looks much more laboured.

    I think there's no way you can underestimate the difficulty in recovering after seeing your team, who you've carried on your shoulders for 15 years, lose out on the one trophy you've never won and wanted the most, because of your bad luck. Mentally I think he's just not the same anymore and the reality that he'll probably never win a title with us will have hurt him just too much, even if he doesn't want to admit it.
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    (Original post by Lúcio)
    I agree, it's just a harsh dilemma because he hasn't done anything wrong except play for his country.

    Definitely; having Toure as sub instead of Lovren makes a world of difference.
    I hope Rodgers doesn't give Lovren much more of a chance tbh, he just hasn't worked.
    Toure may be old but he can put in a performance and I'd be happy to keep him for another year as back-up.

    It's really weird how our worst defender last season suddenly became our best performer at one point.
    Rodgers seems to be very fair to players if they work hard in training. He's had a lot of players he's thought about selling or they get dropped for a while and we've had quite a few fight back and win their spots. No reason Lovren can't do that if he remembers how to be a good defender?
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    Toure wasn't our worst defender last year - except for an unfortunate error at West Brom (and an ultimately irrelevant error at Fulham) he did little wrong and was generally good when called upon. Nobody talks about Skrtel giving Hull a 3-1 win by himself ffs
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    (Original post by Zerforax)
    Rodgers seems to be very fair to players if they work hard in training. He's had a lot of players he's thought about selling or they get dropped for a while and we've had quite a few fight back and win their spots. No reason Lovren can't do that if he remembers how to be a good defender?
    Yes, definitely. Henderson, Skrtel, Sterling, Lucas, Mignolet have all come back in and improved after a spell out in the cold.

    The issue is that there's a sneaking suspicion that Lovren was never a good enough defender in the first place.

    I do think he'll eventually come back into the plans, but I think he'll never live upto his price tag, because he was bought at an inflated price so that he could be an instant fix, and yet his poor partnership with Skrtel has set us back half a season.
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    (Original post by KFC Buffet)
    Yes, definitely. Henderson, Skrtel, Sterling, Lucas, Mignolet have all come back in and improved after a spell out in the cold.

    The issue is that there's a sneaking suspicion that Lovren was never a good enough defender in the first place.

    I do think he'll eventually come back into the plans, but I think he'll never live upto his price tag, because he was bought at an inflated price so that he could be an instant fix, and yet his poor partnership with Skrtel has set us back half a season.
    Never going to be easy to live up to a £20mil transfer fee as a CB since we expect him to be one of the best CBs in the league for that price. He was statistically a beast for Southampton but I think they played a very different style to what Rodgers wants? I imagine he'll get another season to try and establish himself.
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    (Original post by KFC Buffet)
    Well Rodgers turned Sturridge from a media hate figure, peripheral Chelsea youth into a proven, near world class goalscorer. And Rodgers turned Coutinho from an unknown Inter outcast into one of the better young talents in Europe. If he gets the slack for signing Balotelli and Lovren then he also gets the credit for Sturridge and Coutinho (tbf, he can get the credit for those two, and not the slack for the other two, because obviously it's widely speculated that Balo wasn't his signing).

    Henderson/Allen are pretty hardworking (and outstanding defensively by the numbers) and only just short of Vidal/Marchisio, so Gerrard has had the protection (and excelled in our diamond last year). I just think his own performance levels have dipped and he's mentally struggling. His dead ball isn't as good as last year (13 goals and 13 assists from DM? fuark) and he looks much more laboured.

    I think there's no way you can underestimate the difficulty in recovering after seeing your team, who you've carried on your shoulders for 15 years, lose out on the one trophy you've never won and wanted the most, because of your bad luck. Mentally I think he's just not the same anymore and the reality that he'll probably never win a title with us will have hurt him just too much, even if he doesn't want to admit it.
    I was saying players with technical ability too. Henderson and Allen don't have anywhere near the technical ability of Vidal and Marchisio, so people are more likely to mark Gerrard, it's harder to do against Juve because you also have Vidal, Marchisio and Pogba to worry about.

    Yeah, his performance levels have dipped, most likely a mental thing but I think what really has killed him is the underperformance of the team this season. Not just Gerrard, although the guys stats were unreal last season. Especially since most of his stats were from the second half.
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    From the BBC:

    "Hearing Burnley striker Danny Ings signed pre contract terms last week with Real Sociedad. Yet to be confirmed but source is reliable."
    Potentially big news for Burnley fans...
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    (Original post by Zerforax)
    Never going to be easy to live up to a £20mil transfer fee as a CB since we expect him to be one of the best CBs in the league for that price. He was statistically a beast for Southampton but I think they played a very different style to what Rodgers wants? I imagine he'll get another season to try and establish himself.
    They don't really play that much of a different style to Liverpool, the high pressure football played by Pochettino with good ball players at the back is something Rodgers loves. I think he's just been underperforming with the rest of the team. Also there was little protection of the midfield earlier on with Gerrard, and he wasn't putting up the numbers offensively to make up for it.
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    (Original post by Zerforax)
    Never going to be easy to live up to a £20mil transfer fee as a CB since we expect him to be one of the best CBs in the league for that price. He was statistically a beast for Southampton but I think they played a very different style to what Rodgers wants? I imagine he'll get another season to try and establish himself.
    Was he?

    And yeah, he'll get another season, but I don't see where he's establishing himself. Sakho is miles ahead of him in every single facet of the game, so there's no chance he's getting a place at LCB, which is the position he was bought to play.

    Just reeks of a ****e signing really, the only reason I supported it was because I thought he was our upgrade to Skrtel ffs. Spent all summer jizzing about Sakho-Lovren only to see Skrtel in the team against Dortmund as usual.
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    (Original post by jam277)
    They don't really play that much of a different style to Liverpool, the high pressure football played by Pochettino with good ball players at the back is something Rodgers loves. I think he's just been underperforming with the rest of the team. Also there was little protection of the midfield earlier on with Gerrard, and he wasn't putting up the numbers offensively to make up for it.
    There's a distinct lack of confidence. You can see it from his passing, which last season and from all the videos was spectacular.
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    (Original post by jam277)
    They don't really play that much of a different style to Liverpool, the high pressure football played by Pochettino with good ball players at the back is something Rodgers loves. I think he's just been underperforming with the rest of the team. Also there was little protection of the midfield earlier on with Gerrard, and he wasn't putting up the numbers offensively to make up for it.
    I think he got a lot more protection at Southampton? Didn't he have Schneiderlin and Wanyama in front of him as the shields?

    Don't forget that Southampton generally had less possession than Liverpool or teams are happier to play a "contain with counter" against Liverpool which means Lovren is trying to defend more space than just man.

    (Original post by KFC Buffet)
    Was he?

    And yeah, he'll get another season, but I don't see where he's establishing himself. Sakho is miles ahead of him in every single facet of the game, so there's no chance he's getting a place at LCB, which is the position he was bought to play.

    Just reeks of a ****e signing really, the only reason I supported it was because I thought he was our upgrade to Skrtel ffs. Spent all summer jizzing about Sakho-Lovren only to see Skrtel in the team against Dortmund as usual.
    I don't know if Squawka correctly but I did a comparison of Lovren to Kompany for last season

    http://www.squawka.com/comparison-ma..._duels_%#total

    Scored pretty well against Kompany. You can compare to other CBs if you want too.

    It's odd since everyone thought it would be Sakho/Lovren considering they cost £18mil and £20mil respectively. Bizzare to buy Lovren if Rodgers did intend to play only one of them
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    Who's going to make the new thread?

    @OptaJoe
    Liverpool have won eight of 12 PL games that Lucas has started this season (67%) and just three of 11 when he hasn’t (27%). Key.
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    (Original post by Zerforax)
    Who's going to make the new thread?

    @OptaJoe
    Liverpool have won eight of 12 PL games that Lucas has started this season (67%) and just three of 11 when he hasn’t (27%). Key.
    Posted that a few pages ago. Great stat which just shows how silly talk of us getting rid in January was.

    By all accounts, Burnley (and Dyche in particular) aren't happy with us for messing with Ings' head. Dyche and Rodgers are good friends, but there's a thought that Ings was off the boil against Sunderland this weekend and his mentality isn't quite right.
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    (Original post by KFC Buffet)
    Toure wasn't our worst defender last year - except for an unfortunate error at West Brom (and an ultimately irrelevant error at Fulham) he did little wrong and was generally good when called upon. Nobody talks about Skrtel giving Hull a 3-1 win by himself ffs
    Skrtel was dire last year, but ended up scoring more key goals than Henderson which says a lot. Takes a lot to perform worse than Aly Cissokho but he managed it.
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    (Original post by Zerforax)
    From the BBC:
    According to Barrett we are looking to bring in Ings in the summer because that would avoid the need for a tribunal when his contract ends in June.

    He has 7 goals and 3 assists so far this season, he's certainly an upgrade on all our current strikers bar Sturridge. If we can get him for a cheap fee then I have no problem with him signing, I've never watched him play so I don't know if he'd fit into our style of play.
 
 
 
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