Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by PPF)
    To be honest, all the 'Scholars' who oppose it have explicitly allowed Islamic Mortgages and a whole host of Shariah Compliant instruments (loans etc).

    I've just done an entire study on Islamic Finance and i'm telling you its all fraud, so before they say anything they need to look at what alternatives they've given, because so far you have two choices, take the loan or don't go to University.
    Oh.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by PPF)
    To be honest, all the 'Scholars' who oppose it have explicitly allowed Islamic Mortgages and a whole host of Shariah Compliant instruments (loans etc).

    I've just done an entire study on Islamic Finance and i'm telling you its all fraud, so before they say anything they need to look at what alternatives they've given, because so far you have two choices, take the loan or don't go to University.
    Just asking- what do you learn in islamic finance? Do they have a module on it in uni?
    Offline

    8
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by PPF)
    To be honest, all the 'Scholars' who oppose it have explicitly allowed Islamic Mortgages and a whole host of Shariah Compliant instruments (loans etc).

    I've just done an entire study on Islamic Finance and i'm telling you its all fraud, so before they say anything they need to look at what alternatives they've given, because so far you have two choices, take the loan or don't go to University.
    when does the interest start is it as soon as you start earning? or as soon as you finish ? or during the course? :s
    Offline

    5
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by HSafirah)
    Just asking- what do you learn in islamic finance? Do they have a module on it in uni?
    Dissertation. I chose to study it myself. To be honest, I've probably never been so disappointed in my entire life. It's literally a joke..
    Offline

    5
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by s.c.a1)
    when does the interest start is it as soon as you start earning? or as soon as you finish ? or during the course? :s
    Basically the interest is charged once you start earning and its progressive as in, the more you earn or as your salary increases over time, the payments increase, but the interest charge is fixed (I think)

    And just to give you an idea, this is the difference between Halal and Haram apparently:

    Basically the interest is charged once you start earning and its progressive as in, the more you earn or as your salary increases over time, the payments increase, but the interest charge is fixed (I think) - Haram


    Basically the profit rate is charged once you start earning and its progressive as in, the more you earn or as your salary increases over time, the payments increase, but the profit rate is fixed (I think) - Halal
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by s.c.a1)
    assalamalaykum , my question is for any uni students, how did you go about paying for uni without taking out the loan that has interest. is interest permissible say if you have no other way to pay for uni because no family member is going to lend me 9000? and i also was told by a friend if you pay the uni say 1000 a year there will not be any interest? tbh im really confused about this whole interest thing
    Wsalaam,

    Get a weekend job while doing A-level, ask your parents for support even if its a bit here and there. Do remember you have a grant and bursary.........some uni's give an exceptionally large bursary, do not forget that some offer scholarships and even foundations/groups offer such incentives too. There are even companies which if you sign a contract to work for them for a number of years after graduating are also happy to finance your degree.

    (Original post by PPF)
    To be honest, all the 'Scholars' who oppose it have explicitly allowed Islamic Mortgages and a whole host of Shariah Compliant instruments (loans etc).

    I've just done an entire study on Islamic Finance and i'm telling you its all fraud, so before they say anything they need to look at what alternatives they've given, because so far you have two choices, take the loan or don't go to University.
    You shouldn't generalise every scholar.......the person themselves should read the evidence from the scholars they regard and come to a conclusion.
    Offline

    2
    Asalamu alaykum.
    Duas please!!
    So many exams this week.
    InshaAllah we all pass with the grades that we want, and that benefit us in the future.
    #stressed
    Offline

    5
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Iqbal007)
    Wsalaam,

    Get a weekend job while doing A-level, ask your parents for support even if its a bit here and there. Do remember you have a grant and bursary.........some uni's give an exceptionally large bursary, do not forget that some offer scholarships and even foundations/groups offer such incentives too. There are even companies which if you sign a contract to work for them for a number of years after graduating are also happy to finance your degree.



    You shouldn't generalise every scholar.......the person themselves should read the evidence from the scholars they regard and come to a conclusion.
    I respect your opinion but i'm exclusively referring to the Islamic Finance Industry across the globe (except for Iran).

    But in my opinion, and I know many will strongly disagree with me, but this whole Scholar or Fatwa culture has ruined the religion. Without taking it further i'd just like to say that it was ONE fatwa that led to the demise of Islam and the Muslims.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by PPF)
    Dissertation. I chose to study it myself. To be honest, I've probably never been so disappointed in my entire life. It's literally a joke..
    Disappointed with what? Some aspects of islamic finance or .. :confused:

    (Original post by a_hussain15)
    Asalamu alaykum.
    Duas please!!
    So many exams this week.
    InshaAllah we all pass with the grades that we want, and that benefit us in the future.
    #stressed
    Waalaikumussalam warahmatullah

    InshaAllah, you'll do well. May Allah reward you with success in this world and the hereafter. Ameen
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    ٱلْحَقُّ مِن رَّبِّكَ ۖ فَلَا تَكُونَنَّ مِنَ ٱلْمُمْتَرِينَ


    Sahih International

    The truth is from your Lord, so never be among the doubters.

    [Quran 2:147]

    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by PPF)
    Dissertation. I chose to study it myself. To be honest, I've probably never been so disappointed in my entire life. It's literally a joke..
    Salaam. Was just wondering... I've taken the SFE loan and will continue to take it for the duration of my course. I have no funds and my family/relatives can't pay the fees also. I'm not really concerned when I have to pay it back because a loan is a loan and you will be paying it back regardless. I want to become an Engineer so University is a must for me. Others who want to become doctors/Pharmacists etc have to attend Univesity and will take loans if they come from 'low-income familes.'

    What is your opinion on this?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    5
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by HSafirah)
    Disappointed with what? Some aspects of islamic finance or .. :confused:



    Waalaikumussalam warahmatullah

    InshaAllah, you'll do well. May Allah reward you with success in this world and the hereafter. Ameen
    Yes, the way IF is practiced.. That being said however, if anyone is really motivated then you could potentially academically lead the Industry. Its obviously not going to be easy but there is indeed a lot of scope.
    Offline

    5
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Enginerd.)
    Salaam. Was just wondering... I've taken the SFE loan and will continue to take it for the duration of my course. I have no funds and my family/relatives can't pay the fees also. I'm not really concerned when I have to pay it back because a loan is a loan and you will be paying it back regardless. I want to become an Engineer so University is a must for me. Others who want to become doctors/Pharmacists etc have to attend Univesity and will take loans if they come from 'low-income familes.'

    What is your opinion on this?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Firstly, I am no certified Shariah Scholar, I am trained in Economics.
    I fully understand your point, and the conventional view which I personally find very distasteful is that you should accept a low paid job rather than going to university.

    To give you the simplest answer, I personally would take the loan.

    Now under Islamic Finance, the way it is practiced across the globe (apart from Iran), they've essentially (not literally) replaced the word 'interest' with 'profit'.

    They say that this profit rate reflects the time value of money and the risk of the investment by the bank. So basically what that is saying is that by the bank lending you money, it has no access to those funds for a period of time and secondly you might default (not pay back) the loan, so to cover this element of risk (among others), it has the right to charge a profit rate.

    Conventional loans are absolutely identical in terms of the profit function. The function of interest in a Capitalist society is to cover risk and time value. So apart from useless semantics whats the real difference?

    They say that Islamic Finance is asset-backed, yes in most cases it is, but there are others where it isn't. And you could think of your education as an intangible asset.

    The real most essential problem of Riba or interest is when it exploits the poor as in those who are genuinely unable to pay are caught in a debt-trap. Historically people were kept as generational debt-slaves until they paid their dues. I fully agree that the current system and Riba does have this problem of Debt enslavement BUT, if you aren't able to pay the student loan, the debt eventually expires i.e. there is no problem of continual debt burden.

    There is obviously a lot more to this debate but in my personal opinion and I am not representing anyone nor am I promoting anything, is that it is necessary to take these loans and that they don't represent interest - in the context in which it is forbidden.

    Lastly, they say that the Deen is all about societal equality right? Then why do the rich only have access to education in Muslim countries? Its a deep shame that those who they ridicule so much actually have a far better and equal regime whereby even someone living on benefits, provided they put in the effort, is able to access world-renown universities like LSE, Oxford and Cambridge.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by PPF)
    Firstly, I am no certified Shariah Scholar, I am trained in Economics.
    I fully understand your point, and the conventional view which I personally find very distasteful is that you should accept a low paid job rather than going to university.

    To give you the simplest answer, I personally would take the loan.

    Now under Islamic Finance, the way it is practiced across the globe (apart from Iran), they've essentially (not literally) replaced the word 'interest' with 'profit'.

    They say that this profit rate reflects the time value of money and the risk of the investment by the bank. So basically what that is saying is that by the bank lending you money, it has no access to those funds for a period of time and secondly you might default (not pay back) the loan, so to cover this element of risk (among others), it has the right to charge a profit rate.

    Conventional loans are absolutely identical in terms of the profit function. The function of interest in a Capitalist society is to cover risk and time value. So apart from useless semantics whats the real difference?

    They say that Islamic Finance is asset-backed, yes in most cases it is, but there are others where it isn't. And you could think of your education as an intangible asset.

    The real most essential problem of Riba or interest is when it exploits the poor as in those who are genuinely unable to pay are caught in a debt-trap. Historically people were kept as generational debt-slaves until they paid their dues. I fully agree that the current system and Riba does have this problem of Debt enslavement BUT, if you aren't able to pay the student loan, the debt eventually expires i.e. there is no problem of continual debt burden.

    There is obviously a lot more to this debate but in my personal opinion and I am not representing anyone nor am I promoting anything, is that it is necessary to take these loans and that they don't represent interest - in the context in which it is forbidden.

    Lastly, they say that the Deen is all about societal equality right? Then why do the rich only have access to education in Muslim countries? Its a deep shame that those who they ridicule so much actually have a far better and equal regime whereby even someone living on benefits, provided they put in the effort, is able to access world-renown universities like LSE, Oxford and Cambridge.
    I truly understand where you are coming from and agree with you on a lot of points. Just wanted an opinion on someone who has knowledge and has studied IF.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    Jazak Allah.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by PPF)
    Firstly, I am no certified Shariah Scholar, I am trained in Economics.
    I fully understand your point, and the conventional view which I personally find very distasteful is that you should accept a low paid job rather than going to university.

    To give you the simplest answer, I personally would take the loan.

    Now under Islamic Finance, the way it is practiced across the globe (apart from Iran), they've essentially (not literally) replaced the word 'interest' with 'profit'.

    They say that this profit rate reflects the time value of money and the risk of the investment by the bank. So basically what that is saying is that by the bank lending you money, it has no access to those funds for a period of time and secondly you might default (not pay back) the loan, so to cover this element of risk (among others), it has the right to charge a profit rate.

    Conventional loans are absolutely identical in terms of the profit function. The function of interest in a Capitalist society is to cover risk and time value. So apart from useless semantics whats the real difference?

    They say that Islamic Finance is asset-backed, yes in most cases it is, but there are others where it isn't. And you could think of your education as an intangible asset.

    The real most essential problem of Riba or interest is when it exploits the poor as in those who are genuinely unable to pay are caught in a debt-trap. Historically people were kept as generational debt-slaves until they paid their dues. I fully agree that the current system and Riba does have this problem of Debt enslavement BUT, if you aren't able to pay the student loan, the debt eventually expires i.e. there is no problem of continual debt burden.

    There is obviously a lot more to this debate but in my personal opinion and I am not representing anyone nor am I promoting anything, is that it is necessary to take these loans and that they don't represent interest - in the context in which it is forbidden.

    Lastly, they say that the Deen is all about societal equality right? Then why do the rich only have access to education in Muslim countries? Its a deep shame that those who they ridicule so much actually have a far better and equal regime whereby even someone living on benefits, provided they put in the effort, is able to access world-renown universities like LSE, Oxford and Cambridge.
    Very interesting, jazakallahu khairan :yy:
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by PPF)

    Lastly, they say that the Deen is all about societal equality right? Then why do the rich only have access to education in Muslim countries? Its a deep shame that those who they ridicule so much actually have a far better and equal regime whereby even someone living on benefits, provided they put in the effort, is able to access world-renown universities like LSE, Oxford and Cambridge.
    Interesting read.

    We're led by tyrants and unproclaimed murtads. They do not care for deen. Our countries are Muslim in name, not in action. Heck, even Saudi Arabia supported the murders of hundreds of Muslims in Egypt. Noone is clean. It's something that is a problem and we need to change it.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by PPF)
    x
    Also, how is the Iranian system different?
    Offline

    4
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Ruh)
    I don't think anyone has ever claimed that Allah is All Loving. Only those who disbelieved in Him will burn for eternity (unless He chose to forgive them), and this is because a disbeliever is one who was given life by Him, sustained by Him, kept alive by Him, anything good in your life was due to Him, things that you don't even know of e.g. He could have saved your life or directed you away from a thing that could have harmed you, and He has overlooked their faults in the past (and not punished you so much in this life), and he gave the disbelievers the chance to learn about Islam, which was another mercy for their benefit, but the disbelievers reject His guidance, they sin, and they deny the existence of the one who gave them everything. We cannot even comprehend the number of good things that Allah has done for us; just because you can see what your mother does for you does not mean she is nicer to you that Allah. In reality, the mercy of a mother to her child is but a drop in the ocean to that of Allah to His creation
    Allah forgives all sins but He is not inclined to forgive those who actively disbelieve but those who repent for disbelief in their lifetime; those who had limited knowledge about Islam or had limited opportunity to learn will not be unfairly punished, instead they will be given their own test on the Day of Judgement.
    Where do you get this claim from? Do you have sources?
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    Found this in the tafseer today, thought it was interesting (I haven't read the tafseer until surah Hajj yet, randomly found this)


    It was recorded that Abu Hurayrah said, "The Messenger of Allah said:

    (When the son of Adam recites the Ayat containing the prostration, the Shaytan withdraws weeping and says, "Ah! Woe (to me)! the son of Adam was commanded to prostrate and he prostrated, so Paradise is his; I was commanded to prostrate and I refused, so I am doomed to Hell.'')This was recorded by Muslim.

    In his book Al-Marasil, Abu Dawud recorded that Khalid bin Ma` dan, may Allah have mercy upon him, reported that Allah's Messenger said,

    (Surat Al-Hajj has been favored over the rest of the Qur'an with two prostrations.'')


    Al-Hafiz Abu Bakr Al-Isma` ili recorded from Abu Al-Jahm that ` Umar did the two prostrations of Surat Al-Hajj when he was in Al-Jabiyah, and he said, "This Surah has been favored with two prostrations.'')


    [Tafseer Ibn Katheer, on Surah al-Hajj ; Everything prostates to Allah]
    Remember to do the sajada - show to Allah that we obey Him

    How to perform sajada tilawah: http://islam.stackexchange.com/quest...-of-recitation
 
 
 
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: May 19, 2015
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Has a teacher ever helped you cheat?
    Useful resources

    Groups associated with this forum:

    View associated groups
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Write a reply...
    Reply
    Hide
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.