Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing? Watch

Poll: Should Scotland be an independent country?
YES (299)
32.12%
NO (632)
67.88%
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babybuntin
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#9941
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#9941
(Original post by Midlander)
Read what you wrote and say how it isn't Anglophobic.


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you've got Anglophobic in the brain, it becoming rather boring.

if you think l'm going to be afraid to open my mouth what l think of that sleeze ball government, think again,

who else voted them it? it certainly wasn't us, we're not that stupid.

infact I don't know why Scottish people are allowing themselves to be silenced on this thread, but then if they have folk like you screaming Anglophobic all the time then it doesn't surprise me.
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MatureStudent36
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#9942
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#9942
(Original post by babybuntin)
is that your war cry all the time? is that the best you can come up with?

You make out you're the victim all the time and retaliate by making claims people who stand up to you are anti English

l won't stoop so low as to insult you cos l'm better than that
and l will still be voting AYE lol
So I'll take it you're another volunteer from the national collective?
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babybuntin
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#9943
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#9943
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
So I'll take it you're another volunteer from the national collective?
national collective? lol
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MatureStudent36
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#9944
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#9944
(Original post by babybuntin)
national collective? lol
Any news on our EU membership?

More importantly, any news on Salmonds legal advice on the EU?
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Midlander
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#9945
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#9945
(Original post by babybuntin)
you've got Anglophobic in the brain, it becoming rather boring.

if you think l'm going to be afraid to open my mouth what l think of that sleeze ball government, think again,

who else voted them it? it certainly wasn't us, we're not that stupid.

infact I don't know why Scottish people are allowing themselves to be silenced on this thread, but then if they have folk like you screaming Anglophobic all the time then it doesn't surprise me.
The sleeze ball government that is formed of a coalition containing twice as many Scottish MPs as the SNP and has reduced unemployment to its lowest levels in years. The sleeze ball government that gives Scotland the second highest levels of public expenditure out of the 4 constituent states and £2k per head more than it contributes.

What utter nonsense. Maths Tutor said that England had stolen Scottish territory, you say that it steals Scottish money. It's divisive, jingoistic rubbish with no foundation in reality.
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babybuntin
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#9946
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#9946
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
Any news on our EU membership?

More importantly, any news on Salmonds legal advice on the EU?
try asking him lol, how the hell would l know l think my tv is refusing to show Salmond

what's your stance on all this? don't be afraid to say,
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MatureStudent36
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#9947
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#9947
(Original post by babybuntin)
try asking him lol, how the hell would l know l think my tv is refusing to show Salmond

what's your stance on all this? don't be afraid to say,
I, like most Scots will be voting no.
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babybuntin
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#9948
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#9948
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
I, like most Scots will be voting no.
well it's a personal choice.

l'm sticking to my YES vote just to annoy the hell out of Midlander lol
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Good bloke
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#9949
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#9949
(Original post by E-wan)
Standard and Poor said that we would get a AAA credit rating.
As has already been covered in this thread, Standard & Poor said no such thing.
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L i b
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#9950
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#9950
(Original post by shinyroof43)
Because its a chance to create a difference in Scotland. Scotland quite clearly had different needs from England, Wales, Nothern Ireland. If we have a chance to separate we finally have the chance to make decisions that cater for Scotland and only Scotland.
That's a peculiar stance. In point of fact, it doesn't really in the generality. Like England, however, it contains areas with broadly different needs. The difference between Scotland and England is insignificant compared to the difference between urban and rural Scotland, middle class and lower class Scotland and so forth.

Yet we don't try to set up separate bodies for rural people, or different socio-economic areas.

For instance, 1 in 5 children in Scotland live in poverty in some areas it is 1 in 3. Because a lot money generated in Scotland goes to Westminster we are unable to deal with this. As the CPAG states, there is undoubted wealth in Scotland, but it is given to Westminster who then use this in England
That's quite simply false. Not a penny of Scottish tax revenue goes out of Scotland. Scotland is, in fact, considerably in deficit.

In reality, we do take action on these matters. Taxes have been cut for the lowest paid, there are efforts to get people back into work, a million new private sector jobs have been created. In fact, according to the Scottish Government, 20,000 children in Scotland were lifted out of poverty in the last recorded year - a trend reflected across the UK.

(Original post by shinyroof43)
And I don't think funds being spent in England is 'total garbage'.

- in 2011/12 Scotland contributed £56.9 billion in tax revenue, which is equivalent to £10,700 per person, compared to £9,000 per person for the UK as a whole;
- since 1980/81 Scotland has contributed £222 billion more in tax revenues than if it had just matched the per capita contributions of the UK.
If you don't see the glaring logical flaw in using that as an argument, I think it's probably not worth carrying on this conversation.

(Original post by shinyroof43)
Can I just say though, we can endlessly talk about all the statistics etc. But it doesn't really change the fact that Scotland is governed by a party they didn't vote for and have been for so many years.
I voted for it. Does that make me not Scottish in your eyes?

And can I just point out that the Conservatives plan to have an EU referendum, and UKIP seem to be gaining more supporters- two very catastrophic situations
You're talking about breaking up this country, and yet you're presenting even having a referendum on withdrawing from an international organisation as 'catastrophic'?

UKIP and the SNP use the same arguments to virtually the same end: nationalist separatism. In neither case is it reasonable.
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MatureStudent36
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#9951
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#9951
(Original post by babybuntin)
well l don't know about shinny's eyes but it doesn't make you look very Scottish in my eyes.

more in the lines of a wannabe Scottish like many others l'm seeing in this thread.

your whole profile indicates a non Scot to me. ( just saying ) you asked the question lol
Why not go the whole hog and call Libs a Quisling?

You may laugh you're comment off as a joke, but sadly I've seen many Nats use terminology like quisling, traitor, anti Scottish et al.

As I've said before. You hold the minority viewpoint in this debate.
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babybuntin
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#9952
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#9952
shinyroof43

Come the 18th September you vote the way your heart is telling you to vote, it's your personal choice no one else's
Alex Salmond in my eyes is no different from any other Politian, of course the south will despise him,
basically he has thrown the YES vote into the ring but left it up to you to decide.

l think they're may be a lot in this thread trying to hijack your vote pretending to be a native from the north in order to make you believe they are voting NO.. hahaha it's the oldest trick in the book..

then again, l could be a southerner trying to get rid of you. ( work it out )
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E-wan
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#9953
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#9953
(Original post by Good bloke)
As has already been covered in this thread, Standard & Poor said no such thing.
Actually S&P said that without a currency union Scotland would struggle to keep its AAA rating. There will of course be a currency union after a Yes vote despite its orchestrated rejection as part of "project fear". But in the unlikely event that there wasn't , then as the Daily Telegraph pointed out last month, the rest of the UK would lose its rating as a result of the increased debt burden it would then inherit.

S&P said the Scottish economy was capable of gaining recognition from the international investment community even if it fails to retain the pound and has to issue its own currency.
It added that a decision by Scottish banks and fund managers to quit Edinburgh, while painful initially in terms of jobs and tax receipts, could benefit a newly independent Scotland by reducing its exposure to a volatile industry that has suffered badly since the 2008 banking crash.
The report by S&P on an independent Scotland's creditworthiness said that growth could be slow in the early years as some financial businesses relocate to London and investors push up borrowing rates on Holyrood's debts.
"Nevertheless, with a GDP (including North Sea oil output) only slightly below that of New Zealand, a developed economy and developed financial system, there is no fundamental reason why Scotland could not successfully float a currency."
S&P dismissed concerns that Scotland would be overdependent on North Sea oil, which it said accounted for 16% of GDP, well below the 25% mark it sets for sectors to rank as dominant.
But the large-scale lending by Scottish financial institutions to businesses overseas posed a huge risk for a small economy.
"Our initial observation is that the Scottish financial sector is unusually large, with total assets estimated at 12.5 times GDP. We would therefore likely view the financial sector as a significant contingent risk to the state. At the same time, a large part of this activity could be re-domiciled to the UK," it said.
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SerLorasTyrell
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#9954
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#9954
(Original post by E-wan)
Actually S&P said that without a currency union Scotland would struggle to keep its AAA rating. There will of course be a currency union after a Yes vote despite its orchestrated rejection as part of "project fear". But in the unlikely event that there wasn't , then as the Daily Telegraph pointed out last month, the rest of the UK would lose its rating as a result of the increased debt burden it would then inherit.

S&P said the Scottish economy was capable of gaining recognition from the international investment community even if it fails to retain the pound and has to issue its own currency.
It added that a decision by Scottish banks and fund managers to quit Edinburgh, while painful initially in terms of jobs and tax receipts, could benefit a newly independent Scotland by reducing its exposure to a volatile industry that has suffered badly since the 2008 banking crash.
The report by S&P on an independent Scotland's creditworthiness said that growth could be slow in the early years as some financial businesses relocate to London and investors push up borrowing rates on Holyrood's debts.
"Nevertheless, with a GDP (including North Sea oil output) only slightly below that of New Zealand, a developed economy and developed financial system, there is no fundamental reason why Scotland could not successfully float a currency."
S&P dismissed concerns that Scotland would be overdependent on North Sea oil, which it said accounted for 16% of GDP, well below the 25% mark it sets for sectors to rank as dominant.
But the large-scale lending by Scottish financial institutions to businesses overseas posed a huge risk for a small economy.
"Our initial observation is that the Scottish financial sector is unusually large, with total assets estimated at 12.5 times GDP. We would therefore likely view the financial sector as a significant contingent risk to the state. At the same time, a large part of this activity could be re-domiciled to the UK," it said.
Money is arbitrary and isn't actually real


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babybuntin
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#9955
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#9955
Good morning E-wan nice to see you back.

you post made interesting reading
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Boab
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#9956
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#9956


Midlander and MS having a chat :rolleyes:
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E-wan
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#9957
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#9957
(Original post by SerLorasTyrell)
Money is arbitrary and isn't actually real


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If your merely going to comment rather than engage with the conversation, then I don't see a point responding to your statement.
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E-wan
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#9958
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#9958
To put some issues to bed here is the economic report of S&P.

Economic Structure And Growth Prospects: A Rich, Diversified Country
The Scottish economy is rich and relatively diversified, with 2014 per capita GDP estimated to be US$47,369 (based onthe Scottish government's estimates, which include Scotland's geographic share of North Sea output, abbreviated asScotland (Geographical) in the table above). Scottish wealth levels are comparable to that of the U.K. ('AAA'), Germany('AAA'), Ireland ('BBB+'), and New Zealand ('AA-'). Even excluding North Sea output and calculating per capita GDPonly by looking at onshore income, Scotland would qualify for our highest economic assessment. Higher GDP percapita, in our view, gives a country a broader potential tax and funding base to draw from, which supportscreditworthiness.
We view Scotland's trend growth as closely matching that of the U.K. While North Sea output (again on ageographical, rather than population-derived basis) accounts for 16% of Scottish GDP (calculated using data from theScottish government's experimental national accounts project), this does not, under our methodology, lead us toconclude that the economy is excessively concentrated. We typically only adjust for excess economic concentrationshould a single sector exceed one-fifth of a country's GDP.
Nevertheless, Scotland's economic performance would be subject to several potential adjustment risks during its earlyyears as an independent state. First, at 8% of GDP, and employing 7% of the workforce, Scotland's financial sector islarge and closely integrated into the U.K. Re-domiciling of these international banks to the remaining U.K. could exerta drag on the size of Scottish GDP, though less so on gross national product, which excludes income fromforeign-owned companies. Second, Scotland also has a natural dependency on merchandise and business servicestrade with the rest of the U.K., the destination for an estimated 49% of Scottish exports; independence may lead to apartial reversal of that integration, with economic consequences. Third, the public sector is sizable, accounting fornearly one-quarter of the total workforce. This is considerably higher than the U.K. average. In our opinion, shiftingpost-independence to a lower public sector employment rate could weigh on Scotland's initial growth performance.Fourth, at 16% of GDP the oil sector is also large. Indeed, a secular decline in oil production in the North Sea has beena significant factor in the U.K.'s below-par growth and productivity performance since 2008 and would beproportionally a larger drag on Scotland's future GDP performance unless the decline in volume energy output couldbe reversed. However, redressing the long-term decline in oil production might also carry fiscal implications if it
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Boab
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#9959
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#9959
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
I, like most Scots will be voting no.
Your continued optimism is funny.

Latest Sunday Times poll disagrees.

44% of people born in Scotland say YES
42% of people born in Scotland say NO

I trust you will now consider Scots wanting to stay in the Union as the minority

http://www.panelbase.com/media/polls...imestables.pdf
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Boab
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#9960
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#9960
Good news... The total wealth of the richest 1,000 individuals, couples or families in Britain has jumped 15% in a year.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27459621
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