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UK's first abortion services ad to be broadcast watch

  • View Poll Results: Are ads like this a good idea?
    Women need more advice on where to go for abortions
    109
    74.66%
    I agree with the opposing group, it does trivialise it
    37
    25.34%

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    (Original post by jammiebreadman)
    I think the main problem is that the adverts would only show one side of the story - only advertising one apparent choice - abortion.

    I don't trust Marie Stopes at all to give unbiased information for all the options that a women has. Why? They get about £300 every time a women has an abortion - how much if she chooses to keep the child or adopt - nothing.
    Actually, unless our medical system is entirely different to medical systems in places like the US and elsewhere, the person who knows how to perform abortions is the same person who knows how to deliver babies (OB/GYN or whatever), and they get paid significantly more for delivering babies than for aborting pregnancies. I believe the numbers for the states were something like $600 for abortion and £1600 for a caesarian or delivery.
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    I very much doubt the advert will be "Are you late? Have you considered an abortion? Call XXX"

    We do need greater sexual health education, including in advertising. It is not true that "everyone" knows where to get help or even what help is avaliable. If the clinics want to advertise their information and helplines in a tasteful manner, that's great.
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    (Original post by nolongerhearthemusic)
    What do you mean - are you saying that on the NHS if you are able to have a chemically-induced abortion (i.e. up to something like 8 or 9 weeks of pregnancy) you don't have the option for a surgical one instead? Or what?
    This was what I was told from her. It may vary by region though, and mine gets low funding for everything.
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    (Original post by bestie)
    There isn't a long wait for NHS abortions, at least those performed with drugs needing no surgery. No matter where you go, you still need two doctors agreement, a consultation, then two pills, generally 48 hrs apart. Private abortions are generally profiteering off worried women.
    (Original post by bestie)
    It all depends. Generally the later the pregnancy, the more invasive the procedure. The NHS prefers non-surgical up to 7-9 weeks, as it is less invasive and has less risk involved. If you strongly oppose, the doctors have some leeway. From there to 15 weeks the perfected option is suction and after that surgery is pretty much the only and best option.
    Yeah I can see how there wouldn't be waiting times on medical abortions because it doesn't take as much of a doctor's time. But what if you wanted an NHS surgical abortion before 9 weeks? You'd probably have to wait longer, wouldn't you? Though I'm pretty sure it all also depends on where you are as some areas have better access to abortions than others.

    Edit: oh and about the profiteering thing, I did find it it a bit mad that they list contraceptives in their price list. Why would anyone pay £160 for an implant when they can go to their GP and get one for £0?
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    (Original post by moregano)
    I'm all for educating women on their options, but I'm not sure a TV ad campaign is the way to go about it. The fact that abortion is available is common knowledge - what women need is access to further information about the procedures, eligibility, how to access services, etc.
    Well clearly it is not; with the number of calls coming through.
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    (Original post by nolongerhearthemusic)
    Yeah I can see how there wouldn't be waiting times on medical abortions because it doesn't take as much of a doctor's time. But what if you wanted an NHS surgical abortion before 9 weeks? You'd probably have to wait longer, wouldn't you? Though I'm pretty sure it all also depends on where you are as some areas have better access to abortions than others.?
    You'd probably have to wait until you were 9 weeks, tbh. Some may do it earlier, but the chances of missing some and needing a second operation is higher that way. I don't know for sure though - the hospital I work at (and worked in Obs and gynae until recently) does not do abortions, so this is experience from med school days.
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    (Original post by nolongerhearthemusic)
    Yeah I can see how there wouldn't be waiting times on medical abortions because it doesn't take as much of a doctor's time. But what if you wanted an NHS surgical abortion before 9 weeks? You'd probably have to wait longer, wouldn't you? Though I'm pretty sure it all also depends on where you are as some areas have better access to abortions than others.

    Edit: oh and about the profiteering thing, I did find it it a bit mad that they list contraceptives in their price list. Why would anyone pay £160 for an implant when they can go to their GP and get one for £0?
    You probably would, though it's generally done quite quickly as it's time sensitive (though obviously not an emergency). I don't see why a women would choose to have the more invasive and riskier procedure if they don't need it.
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    (Original post by bestie)
    You probably would, though it's generally done quite quickly as it's time sensitive (though obviously not an emergency). I don't see why a women would choose to have the more invasive and riskier procedure if they don't need it.
    Well, whenever I hear/read someone talking about a medical abortion it was the worst thing EVER whereas when it's a surgical one it's fine, including one person who'd had both and said the medical one was worse. Not very conclusive evidence there but it's the impression I have.
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    (Original post by Lizia)
    You do realise contraception fails on a shockingly regular basis, yes? I don't know anyone who hasn't had experience with a condom breaking or slipping at least once while they've been sexually active. Even if used perfectly, condoms have a 2% failure rate. In reality, considering human error and using the incorrectly, the failure rate is more like 15%. The Pill itself has a "real world" failure rate of 8%, and it really isn't that hard to miss a pill occasionally. So even if someone uses protection, they can still end up pregnant.
    Does it make you feel important to be so obviously condescending? Thanks for the "Even if someone uses protection, they can still end up pregnant." Comment. Wow, really?

    Thankyou for all the statistics, the one about the condom is true, yes. Where you got the statistic for the pill having an 8% failure rate is beyond me. Please provide me with a credible source, otherwise I'm going to say that's absolute nonsense (and I'm pretty certain it is). Also, if you miss a pill, then you should use condoms for the rest of the month, it really is as simple as that. People who risk it are surely aware theres a very likely chance they'll get pregnant? Or are all these people you're reffering to completely inept?

    As I stated before I am NOT against abortion. However, anyone with half a brain cell has to admit that people are careless with contraception. You mentioned that condoms can split... and it's pretty obvious when they do. So what do these people do, sit around and hope for the best? The obvious solution is to get a morning after pill. People use contraception so carelessly because they know abortion is a back up option. I am talking about a small minority here to be fair (the ones who get pregnant by accident).

    My actual point, that you completely missed and quoted me for something completely irrelevant, was how abortions are considered a right. Contraception is a right. However, the amount of weeks up to you having an abortion should be dramatically lowered, especially given our knowledge about what happens to a baby during the gestation period. It's not just silly, irresponsible people who are getting pregnant and defending this. It's also some pretty (so far) intelligent women, namely feminists who claim it's a woman's right. Yet when start talking about abortions state that they've had up to two or three. Not only is it barbaric to allow people to have abortions up to 24 weeks but it shouldn't be considered so trivially.

    As I said before, I am in no way against abortion, it should be an option for everyone. However you even stated that contraception can fail. Most of the time it's obvious when it does and something can be done sooner. To have an abortion up to just before 24 weeks is completely irresponsible, and this was my main point, that you completely ignored. The only time I agree with abortions being allowed at such late a stage is if the birth may kill the mother in the process. Otherwise abortions are used too frequently.
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    (Original post by saminator)
    Oh and by the way I am not a 'holy jo', just a person with decent morals.
    Take your "decent morals" and shove 'em where the sun don't shiiiine lol

    Who are you to dictate what decent morals are?! People like you are an embarassment to yourselves.
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    Why not have the adverts done by an independent body? Not a firm dedicated to the cause of abortion. How could the information it gives not be biased. (e.g. it shows a sad young pregnant person but not the foetus)
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    (Original post by katebushfan)
    Does it make you feel important to be so obviously condescending? Thanks for the "Even if someone uses protection, they can still end up pregnant." Comment. Wow, really?
    If you don't want people to provide "patronising" responses, don't make such stupid remarks. You made the remark which sounded like you were saying people should use contraception, and then they'd avoid abortion altogether. That patently isn't true. The most responsible person in the world can have a contraception failure, abortions aren't solely down to idiots using them in a ridiculously incorrect way or not at all.

    Thankyou for all the statistics, the one about the condom is true, yes. Where you got the statistic for the pill having an 8% failure rate is beyond me. Please provide me with a credible source, otherwise I'm going to say that's absolute nonsense (and I'm pretty certain it is). Also, if you miss a pill, then you should use condoms for the rest of the month, it really is as simple as that. People who risk it are surely aware theres a very likely chance they'll get pregnant? Or are all these people you're reffering to completely inept?
    It's very easy to miss a pill without even realising you've done it. That's not to mention that vomiting, diarrhoea and other illnesses can mean the Pill isn't effective, which a suprising amount of people don't realise. And considering the massive failure rate of condoms, who says they won't fail on you anyway, if you use them while you're waiting to be re-protected 15% is a massively high percentage, when it comes to efficacy.

    Source for the Pill failure rate. The website might not seem credible, but it's a transcript from a book sitting on my desk.


    However, anyone with half a brain cell has to admit that people are careless with contraception. You mentioned that condoms can split... and it's pretty obvious when they do. So what do these people do, sit around and hope for the best? The obvious solution is to get a morning after pill. People use contraception so carelessly because they know abortion is a back up option. I am talking about a small minority here to be fair (the ones who get pregnant by accident).
    It's not always obvious that a condom has failed. When people say a condom has split, they don't mean it's torn down the middle. A tiny hole can cause failure, so it's highly possible that someone didn't even realise that the condom split. Then you have the possibility that your boyfriend/sex partner is a jackass and notices the failure, but doesn't bother mentioning it (has happened a couple of girls I know). So it isn't always carelessness, unless you expect girls to do a detailed examination of every condom they use? The morning after pill is only of any use if you have a reason to think the contraception failed, which most people don't unless they had unprotected sex, or the condom literally falls off or tears completely.

    And I don't think most people are careless with contraception because "they can always get an abortion if things go wrong". Do you not think that there were thousands of women getting pregnant when abortion was illegal? Of course there were. The difference being they had to go to a backstreet abortionist and risk their lives. Abortion not being available doesn't make people more careful, it just means the consequences are more severe when they arise.

    My actual point, that you completely missed and quoted me for something completely irrelevant, was how abortions are considered a right.
    If you don't want people to quote you for "something completely irrelevant", don't make irrelevant remarks. I quoted you to point out that what you said was completely untrue- you said it wasn't possible to go months without noticing you were pregnant, which is rubbish. I really don't care what you think about abortions being a right, so I didn't respond to it. But I do care about you making statements that are completely false.
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    (Original post by Lizia)

    If you don't want people to quote you for "something completely irrelevant", don't make irrelevant remarks. I quoted you to point out that what you said was completely untrue- you said it wasn't possible to go months without noticing you were pregnant, which is rubbish. I really don't care what you think about abortions being a right, so I didn't respond to it. But I do care about you making statements that are completely false.
    I noted down all that you said but it's too late to reply to all of it, as most of it is just silly remarks, and I'm not getting into an unneccessary argument. As for the pill thing, you still didn't see (or ignored) what I wrote. I acknowledged that it's easy to miss a pill, I also stated that anyone who continues to have unprotected sex after missing one must surely know there's a high chance they'll get pregnant. That is a fact. Otherwise the women taking these pills clearly do not know how they work.

    You said I made an irrelevant remark, but I didn't, you misunderstood my post entirely and therefore this whole conversation is irrelevant. In my first post I clearly stated I was not against abortion, to avoid an unnecessary argument :rolleyes:. I also stated that I was talking about a minority. "You said it wasn't possible to go months without noticing you were pregnant" - Actually, no I didn't. I said that people who go months without noticing are careless. Please do not say I've said things I did not to twist the argument, it's childish. I also mentioned that I was speaking about a minority. There may be an expection where a girl might be young and her period is irregular, so it'd be hard for her to tell after a month. But for an average women not to notice up to 4/5/6 months is really, really silly. You can make up any excuses and defend it however you want but you really are skirting around the issue of the most important point when it comes to abortions, which is the gestation period. My views on abortion dramatically changed when I read about what happens to the embryo/ baby when it's in the womb in the time that an abortion is still allowed.

    You can keep arguing about contraception all you like, but just like you 'do not care about my point whether it's a right or not' I do not care for your points about contraception. Since that was not what my first post was about . You cannot say that the majority of accidents, really were accidents, in that nothing could have been done to stop it. I'm really highlighting that I'm talking about abortions up to 24 weeks, not having an abortion after a couple of weeks. If you don't notice you're pregnant up to 5/ 6 months, there is something severely wrong with you.
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    People who oppose abortion are ridiculous. As westerners we force millions of 3rd worlders to starve and die indirectly - people should get some perspective and realize that human life, by almost everyones actions, has been proved worthless.
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    (Original post by katebushfan)
    I noted down all that you said but it's too late to reply to all of it, as most of it is just silly remarks, and I'm not getting into an unneccessary argument. As for the pill thing, you still didn't see (or ignored) what I wrote. I acknowledged that it's easy to miss a pill, I also stated that anyone who continues to have unprotected sex after missing one must surely know there's a high chance they'll get pregnant. That is a fact. Otherwise the women taking these pills clearly do not know how they work.

    You said I made an irrelevant remark, but I didn't, you misunderstood my post entirely and therefore this whole conversation is irrelevant. In my first post I clearly stated I was not against abortion, to avoid an unnecessary argument :rolleyes:. I also stated that I was talking about a minority. "You said it wasn't possible to go months without noticing you were pregnant" - Actually, no I didn't. I said that people who go months without noticing are careless. Please do not say I've said things I did not to twist the argument, it's childish. I also mentioned that I was speaking about a minority. There may be an expection where a girl might be young and her period is irregular, so it'd be hard for her to tell after a month. But for an average women not to notice up to 4/5/6 months is really, really silly. You can make up any excuses and defend it however you want but you really are skirting around the issue of the most important point when it comes to abortions, which is the gestation period. My views on abortion dramatically changed when I read about what happens to the embryo/ baby when it's in the womb in the time that an abortion is still allowed.

    You can keep arguing about contraception all you like, but just like you 'do not care about my point whether it's a right or not' I do not care for your points about contraception. Since that was not what my first post was about . You cannot say that the majority of accidents, really were accidents, in that nothing could have been done to stop it. I'm really highlighting that I'm talking about abortions up to 24 weeks, not having an abortion after a couple of weeks. If you don't notice you're pregnant up to 5/ 6 months, there is something severely wrong with you.
    There have been cases where the woman didn't realise she was pregnant until she was in labour. My sister is 6 months pregnant and she doesn't have any signs of a bump yet, if it wasn't for the fact she planned to get pregnant it is quite likely she would be unaware as shes had regular periods throughout her pregnancy, which is not uncommon for a lot of women. I have periods aprox every 6 weeks, and I'm sometimes 2 or 3 weeks late, if I became pregnant (and btw I use the pill and condoms) I probably wouldn't know for a few months.

    Lizia is making valid points, some accidents may have been preventable but the majority are not. The majority of these woman will realise they are pregnant by 9 weeks, but a lot will not, that does not mean they have something "severly wrong" with them. I agree, the abortion cut off point seems very late but thats a seperate issue and very few abortions are done at that stage and its usually because of life and death reasons for the woman. You seem to be suggesting people are purposely careless and don't care whether they get pregnant or not because they'll just get an abortion at 24 weeks if they do.
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    (Original post by kamc)
    There have been cases where the woman didn't realise she was pregnant until she was in labour. My sister is 6 months pregnant and she doesn't have any signs of a bump yet, if it wasn't for the fact she planned to get pregnant it is quite likely she would be unaware as shes had regular periods throughout her pregnancy, which is not uncommon for a lot of women. I have periods aprox every 6 weeks, and I'm sometimes 2 or 3 weeks late, if I became pregnant (and btw I use the pill and condoms) I probably wouldn't know for a few months.

    Lizia is making valid points, some accidents may have been preventable but the majority are not. The majority of these woman will realise they are pregnant by 9 weeks, but a lot will not, that does not mean they have something "severly wrong" with them. I agree, the abortion cut off point seems very late but thats a seperate issue and very few abortions are done at that stage and its usually because of life and death reasons for the woman. You seem to be suggesting people are purposely careless and don't care whether they get pregnant or not because they'll just get an abortion at 24 weeks if they do.
    No, you've both missed my point. I acknowledge it's possible but it's SO rare that more information about abortions is obviously not the way to go, there should be more information about pregnancy. I also mentioned a woman may not notice if her periods are irregular, which you've either not seen or ignored. Sorry but I just had a long winded argument with someone who also wasn't reading my posts properly - so read it then comment.

    Lizia did not say that some accidents are preventable but the majority are not, not once did she say that. You said the abortion cut off point is a seperate issue, well, that's what my original post was about!

    No, I did not suggest that people are purposely careless. I suggested that they must be uneducated about pregnancy. Maybe I'm just more knowledgable about my own body, but it would be impossible for me to get pregnant and not know about it after 2 months (or at least missing ONE, maybe two periods). My original posts/ arguments were about the gestation period and how the weeks up to you having an abortion should be lowered, because it really is rare for a woman to not know after even 4 months.

    A bump is not the only sign of being pregnant, if someone misses the fact they're not having their period, they can usually feel something inside them, their mood changes, morning sickness etc then obviously the majority you are reffering to really don't know what pregnancy is about.

    The people who actually get pregnant and really 'don't know' ARE a minority, because I see it as really almost impossible to miss a pill, then assume you won't get pregnant (and not use any other protection). To see a condom is split (and no matter what Lizia says, it will almost always be visible) and not get a morning after pill. Those factors combined with missing periods etc. You would be in the minority if you still didn't know, or more importantly, acknowledge you may not be pregnant.

    The majority of unwanted pregnancies are usually by those who 'hope' they're not pregnant. Lets be fair to women, those who get pregnant accidently are not completely stupid.

    Anyways, I don't want to argue about this any longer, it really wasn't anything to do with my OP. It's also a very obvious statement. Neither of you were acknowledging anything about the gestation period, and just making excuses for people who fail to see they are pregnant up to that point. When more information should be provided to stop that from happening.
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    (Original post by chemical_bex)
    I think it's a good idea.
    All it's doing is giving girls/women more information
    I agree! :yep:

    thanks for the info meus.. :p:
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    The anti-abortion group are criticising from entirely the wrong angle: from my perspective, the problem is simply that if someone doesn't accept abortion should be a choice in the vast majority of cases, that person will obviously never support an advert which publicises it as a valid option en masse, even if it's only one of a range of options. I'm sure the advert will unbiased and nontrivial in tone but that doesn't change its innate offensiveness, for me. Of course, I'd never want to ban the advert from being broadcast though; it really is a shame that pro-lifers often seem to be fairly devoid of rationality.

    Also, the poll is very strange, I don't agree with the anti-abortion group but I'm also against the advert. Oh well.
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    (Original post by NDGAARONDI)
    http://www.publications.parliament.u...0515/bbc-1.htm

    So it was the Pro-Life Alliance instead of the SPUC.

    I just thought this decision was a shame. I'm not comfortable with deciding things on taste because it's often selective.
    Yeah we did it in Media Law.

    I am personally, and always will be, pro freedom of speech.
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    (Original post by Tufts)
    Yeah we did it in Media Law.

    I am personally, and always will be, pro freedom of speech.
    Oh yeah, I managed to enrol to Gender, Law and Society and now every other criminologist I know is joining me since a lecturer sent out an email to her students. :rolleyes: I was after Gender, Punishment and Society but beggers can't be choosers.
 
 
 
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