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Muslims, who do you put first? watch

  • View Poll Results: Muslims, who do you put first?
    My fellow countrymen
    8.21%
    My Muslim brothers and sisters
    35.75%
    I'm not a Muslim
    56.04%

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    (Original post by Tiberius)
    Stop dancing around semantics in an attempt to undermine the thread. The premise and denotation is clear.
    This thread is a sham, and the poll is invalid, simply because there arent enough options to satisfy the relevant criteria, its like asking how old are you and giving only ages 10 and 50 to choose from. Obviously you have observed that islam threads have been popular in the past and wanted to mimic this attribute in your own, noone cares, get a life.
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    Im not sure what the OP is trying to prove with this type of a poll - However with this, I am on the fence:

    1. I was born and raised in the UK

    2. I have been able to travel the world, with relative ease, and hence have been able to see what I have and what others do not have. This is because I hold a British passport. If I had a passport from Afghanistan or Pakistan, I wouldn't have this privilege or freedom

    3. The country that I was born in has fed me, clothed me and placed a roof over my head. Most other Muslim countries (maybe apart from the UAE) wouldn't have cared less whether I had a piece of Khubz to eat or not.

    4. Because of this country, I was also able to get an education and have freedom of speech and make decisions for myself.

    5. If I wanted to emigrate to a Muslim country, I would most likely become economically stable, probably even more stable then citizens of those countries, because of the country that I was born in and the passport that I hold

    6. When I am in predominantly Muslim countries, I find myself defending my country and even other western states, when faced (quite regularly!) with anti-western thought.

    However, in some circumstances, I do find myself defending the Muslim. Situations like the burkha ban in France is a prime example. This is especially the case, since things like these go against the western values and tolerance that we all know of. What this poll is asking you to do is choose between politics and religion, which shouldn't, in my opinion mix. The question of Citizenship is an aspect of politics and Islam, well, is "religion". So, coming down to it, depending on the situation, I would go for my "fellow country men", only because my country has made me what I am today, without mixing in the religion element.
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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    Kennedy when asked about his loyalty to the United States over Catholicism,

    "Astute Kennedy survived the question and got away with a simple answer. Should the two loyalties-the Pope and the Presidential office-conflict, Kennedy said, he would give up the Presidential office but remain a simple Catholic. (Time, September 26, 1960).
    I'm not particularly a fan of Catholicism either.
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    (Original post by LivingMemory)
    Simple immigration, we didn't force anyone here. We were just accepting and opened the doors to who wanted to come.



    Stoning non-Mulisms, was it such a ridiculous suggestion given the Quran's other advice?


    024.002 The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment. 024.003 Let no man guilty of adultery or fornication marry and but a woman similarly guilty, or an Unbeliever: nor let any but such a man or an Unbeliever marry such a woman: to the Believers such a thing is forbidden. 024.004 And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations),- flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors;- 024.005 Unless they repent thereafter and mend (their conduct); for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. 024.006 And for those who launch a charge against their wives, and have (in support) no evidence but their own,- their solitary evidence (can be received) if they bear witness four times (with an oath) by Allah that they are solemnly telling the truth; 024.007 And the fifth (oath) (should be) that they solemnly invoke the curse of Allah on themselves if they tell a lie. 024.008 But it would avert the punishment from the wife, if she bears witness four times (with an oath) By Allah, that (her husband) is telling a lie; 024.009 And the fifth (oath) should be that she solemnly invokes the wrath of Allah on herself if (her accuser) is telling the truth. 024.010
    lol your counter-argument is a terrible attempt at copy and paste :facepalm:
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    OP may have created this thread to create alot of hate, but its good question.

    As a muslim you have to support your fellow muslims over your non-muslim nations, its pretty much simple as that, but that doesnt mean you should hate your country (britain), for instance when praying if you are going to pray for a country, it first needs to be the city you are praying in then the country you praying in. If you hate the country so much you are praying in/eating/living/and you are supporting it (part of your tax goes towards war in afghan/iraq) why are you here, now answering this question gets alot harder. as people who chose fellow muslims while living in a western world makes no sense, as you supporting the country be it you hate or love it.
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    (Original post by najeezy)
    I cant resist, your counter arguement became invalid in the first sentence....
    I was highlighting brutality in the Quran. Where did I got wrong?
    Is flogging not brutal?
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    (Original post by LivingMemory)
    Simple immigration, we didn't force anyone here. We were just accepting and opened the doors to who wanted to come.



    Stoning non-Mulisms, was it such a ridiculous suggestion given the Quran's other advice?


    024.002 The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment. 024.003 Let no man guilty of adultery or fornication marry and but a woman similarly guilty, or an Unbeliever: nor let any but such a man or an Unbeliever marry such a woman: to the Believers such a thing is forbidden. 024.004 And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations),- flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors;- 024.005 Unless they repent thereafter and mend (their conduct); for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. 024.006 And for those who launch a charge against their wives, and have (in support) no evidence but their own,- their solitary evidence (can be received) if they bear witness four times (with an oath) by Allah that they are solemnly telling the truth; 024.007 And the fifth (oath) (should be) that they solemnly invoke the curse of Allah on themselves if they tell a lie. 024.008 But it would avert the punishment from the wife, if she bears witness four times (with an oath) By Allah, that (her husband) is telling a lie; 024.009 And the fifth (oath) should be that she solemnly invokes the wrath of Allah on herself if (her accuser) is telling the truth. 024.010
    You are determined to find fault in islam, these punishments are regarding adultery, which is horrible, if everyone was let off easily, then they would do it again and others would follow.

    I am a muslim, and I am looking at this verse through an islamic perspective. Its trying to show how draconium this sin is, and how hated by Allah it is. Can you think of the mental anguish that would befall the person who has been cheated upon. It is a warning, to tell you not to commit such acts.

    But if you want to begin quoting aq Transalation of the quran then I will find you another verse to look at. this is an hadith.

    Allah the Almighty has said: “O son of Adam, so long as you call upon Me and ask of Me, I shall forgive you for what you have done, and I shall not mind. O son of Adam, were your sins to reach the clouds of the sky and were you then to ask forgiveness of Me, I would forgive you. O son of Adam, were you to come to Me with sins nearly as great as the earth and were you then to face Me, ascribing no partner to Me, I would bring you forgiveness nearly as great as its.”

    And this is another story, which shows its not just the deeds but the intentions too.

    2) Prophet (SW) has said:

    A certain person had committed 99 murders. He went to a scholar and asked, is there any chance of my being forgiven? The scholar said no, you have committed too many crimes. The man killed the scholar too, but his heart was restless, so he went to another scholar and asked the same question. He was told yes, but you must leave this town of bad people and go live in the next town in the company of good people.

    So the man set out to the town he was told to go to. On the way he died. A man passing by saw two angels arguing over his dead body. The Angel from Hell said, 'His body belongs to me as he had not done any good in his life.' The Angel from Heaven said, 'His body belongs to me as he had repented and was set out to be with good people.' The man who was the passer-by said, 'Let us measure the distance of his body from the town he left and the town he was going to.'

    This was done. He was found to be nearer to the town he was going to. In another version, the earth was ordered by Allah to shrink and make the distance smaller, so that he was admitted to Heaven.

    I hope this helps
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    (Original post by Neelam1982)
    This is especially the case, since things like these go against western values and tolerance that we all know.
    "western values" lol. if there was such a thing and it was enforced, religion would not exist.
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    (Original post by New Username)
    lol your counter-argument is a terrible attempt at copy and past :facepalm:
    Well of course it is! I don't know the Quran off by heart you know!
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    (Original post by Tiberius)
    Insightful, cohesive argument! :teehee:
    Let;s have a manchild
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    (Original post by Tiberius)
    Stop dancing around semantics in an attempt to undermine the thread. The premise and denotation is clear.
    What are you trying to achieve with this thread? that Muslims can't be loyal to the UK? This isn't the case, there's moral loyalty and there's national loyalty.

    The Islamic religion commands believers to obey the laws of the land they live in, even if it be one ruled by nonbelievers. Muslim jurists consider citizenship (or visa) to be a covenant (aqd) held between the citizen (or visa holder) and the state, one which guarantees safe passage/security (amaan) in exchange for certain obligations (such as obeying the laws of the land); covenants are considered sacredly binding in Islam. The Quran commands:

    And fulfill every covenant. Verily, you will be held accountable with regard to the covenants. (Quran, 17:34)

    The Quran condemns those who break covenants as not being true believers:

    It is not the case that every time they make a covenant, some party among them throws it aside. Nay! The truth is most of them believe not. (Quran, 2:100)

    The Islamic prophet Muhammad described the religious hypocrite as follows:

    When he enters into a covenant, he proves treacherous. (Sahih al-Bukhari)

    Citizenship is called in Islamic legal parlance as a “covenant of security” (aqd al-aman). For over a thousand years, Muslim scholars have rigorously affirmed the binding nature of the covenant of security. This covenant of security can be of two types: (1) a contractual agreement or (2) a customary understanding.

    A Muslim is obliged to keep to his word, and thus this oath is religiously binding upon him.


    In regards to helping those oppressed abroad, Muslims are expected to help them but you should never betray the covenant that you hold with your nation,

    If [your coreligionists] ask for your aid in religion, then you must help them, except against people with whom you have covenants with. (Quran, 8:72)

    So next time, try to be appropriate in the matter and stop being backhanded with your provocatory ways.
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    (Original post by najeezy)
    i hate you aswell, and no, you gtfo.
    I'm not in Lebanon, stupid ****.
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    I think you should look at that OP. It shows that 57% London Muslims identify themselves with their country and 69% with their religion. In contrast to, the UK public in which 48% of them identify themselves with their country and 30% with their religion.

    Also, it shows that 63% of London Muslims prefer to live in an area that is made up of people from their ethnic and religious backgrounds. In contrast to the UK public in which only 58% of the UK public would like to live in an area that is made up of people of the same religious and ethnic background.

    This is interesting because Paris Muslim equally identify with their country and religion, whereas the Berlin Muslims identify more with their religion. In contrast to, the French public in which more identify with their country, than their religion. Also, German public identify themselves more with their country than their religion, but only by 8%.

    In addition, the Paris Muslims would like prefer to live with people from their ethnic and religious backgrounds, same with the French public but the Paris Muslims prefer to live in people of the same religious and ethnic background 19% more. The Berlin Muslims also prefer by 71% to live in an area which is made up of people of the same religious and ethnic background. Whereas, only 55% of the German public would like to live in an area made up of people of the same religious and ethic background.
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    (Original post by LivingMemory)
    I was highlighting brutality in the Quran. Where did I got wrong?
    Is flogging not brutal?
    both your suggestion is terrible stupid and ignorant, since you are suggesting content present in a "holy script" something undeniably idiotic, secondly these values are expressed in both christianity and both judaism, nice googling, but muslims adapt to modern day times and situations, have you seen any adulteres in the uk being stoned? ok please dont make suggestions of content that over a billion people take to be "absolute truth".
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    (Original post by Broderss)
    I'm not in Lebanon, stupid ****.
    i meant the UK, but since im here i wanna take the time out to congratulate you on your excellent comprehension skills, on behalf of most people here, well done.
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    To living memory, you have not replied to my comment.
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    (Original post by Numberone-outkast)
    OP may have created this thread to create alot of hate, but its good question.

    As a muslim you have to support your fellow muslims over your non-muslim nations, its pretty much simple as that, but that doesnt mean you should hate your country (britain), for instance when praying if you are going to pray for a country, it first needs to be the city you are praying then the country you praying in. If you hate the country so much you are praying in it/eating/living/and you are supporting it, part of your tax goes towards war in afghan/iraq, now answering this question gets alot harder. as people who chose fellow muslims while living in a western world makes no sense, as you supporting the country be it you hate or love it.
    Indeed this. My dad who lives in saudi gets surprised most of the time by the behavior of these Muslims who look to exterminate people(wouldn't call them a Muslim) and yet live in this very country,pay the tax but are hypocrites?
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    Fellow Muslims
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    To be honest I don't think the overall results from this poll will tell you very much apart from what each individual wishes to apply to it. Most muslims will say other muslims as that is who they identify with; that doesn't mean, however, that they will always put other muslims before non-muslim British... for example, my fiance would identify himself as muslim before British, but there have been plenty of times he has gone against other muslims in favour for me (a non-muslim).
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    (Original post by Annoying-Mouse)


    I think you should look at that OP. It shows that 57% London Muslims identify themselves with their country and 69% with their religion. In contrast to, the UK public in which 48% of them identify themselves with their country and 30% with their religion.

    Also, it shows that 63% of London Muslims prefer to live in an area that is made up of people from their ethnic and religious backgrounds. In contrast to the UK public in which only 58% of the UK public would like to live in an area that is made up of people of the same religious and ethnic background.

    This is interesting because Paris Muslim equally identify with their country and religion, whereas the Berlin Muslims identify more with their religion. In contrast to, the French public in which more identify with their country, than their religion. Also, German public identify themselves more with their country than their religion, but only by 8%.

    In addition, the Paris Muslims would like prefer to live with people from their ethnic and religious backgrounds, same with the French public but the Paris Muslims prefer to live in people of the same religious and ethnic background 19% more. The Berlin Muslims also prefer by 71% to live in an area which is made up of people of the same religious and ethnic background. Whereas, only 55% of the German public would like to live in an area made up of people of the same religious and ethic background.
    State the source/context, it looks like random people are being asked.
 
 
 
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