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We're gonna shake London once again - 30th November - everyone should come! Watch

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    (Original post by aeonflux)
    Taken an economics lessons lately?

    The most powerful Eurozone economies - Germany for example - are in no worse position than the UK. Regardless of the current situation with the Eurozone, the blaim can hardly be put on education. If you look at government spending on education as a percentage of total spending, it is minute. It is also arguably the best investment public money can go to. The vast majority of public spending (here and in Europe) is on social security.

    Its also worth pointing out that the a tuition fee rise will do nothing to help the deficit in the short-term; which after all, is what the coalition government keep telling us is the top priority. Education cuts are ideologically as opposed to economically driven.
    So the relying on the government to extract the fees for students via tax when not everyone has benefitted from a university education is ok, but establishing a system whereby students cover their own fees and don't have to fund others later on whilst stopping those who didn't go to uni paying is unfair is it?

    The student argument relies on the "you had uni free so we have to have it too".


    If anything, this system is fairer - students pay their own way instead of others paying for students. I'm sick of this mentality some students have that they're something special the rest of the nation must nurture and support. They're not, they're all 18 or over now and it's time to start acting like adults and paying their own way.

    The system provides for them whilst being cost effective to the government. Students are now complaining that they must pay for what they ultimately benefit the most from. And before anyone comments, yes I am a student, I am prepared to accept that whats best for me might not always be the best for the nation.
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    (Original post by callum9999)
    What benefits do the police and media possibly get from high tuition fees?
    :confused:Got to say this one had me puzzled (maybe just likes conspiracy theories)!
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    (Original post by Hopple)
    Less tax for them
    Using this logic that would be the same for any tax payer:confused:
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    (Original post by Shortarse1)
    So the relying on the government to extract the fees for students via tax when not everyone has benefitted from a university education is ok, but establishing a system whereby students cover their own fees and don't have to fund others later on whilst stopping those who didn't go to uni paying is unfair is it?
    Yes it is. Studies show that, on average, a graduate will earn an extra £250,000 over a lifetime than a non-graduate. That adds up to a lot of extra tax, far more, in fact, than the cost to the government of subsidising degrees.

    The student argument relies on the "you had uni free so we have to have it too".
    Thats how pretty much all welfare works and always has worked. Take pensions for example. Throughout your working life you will pay tax and NI contributions which will fund the older generations pensions and healthcare. When you come to retire, the younger generation will pay your pensions and healthcare through their taxes. If you think about, it makes quite a lot of sense.

    If anything, this system is fairer - students pay their own way instead of others paying for students.
    Not really, because as I said, students, on average, will pay more taxes over the course of their lifetime than everyone else will anyway. They are already effectively paying back the cost of their education through greater tax payments - the current system makes students pay twice.

    The system provides for them whilst being cost effective to the government. Students are now complaining that they must pay for what they ultimately benefit the most from.
    Ok, lets take your argument a little bit further. Like university, 6th form is optional. Following your logic, students who choose to stay on a 6th form should also have to pay the cost of that too. Where does it end?

    You could of course apply your idiotic logic to any public service - why should I pay for someone elses healthcare when it benefits them, why should I pay for anyone elses pensions when it benefits them, and so on ad infinitum.

    And before anyone comments, yes I am a student, I am prepared to accept that whats best for me might not always be the best for the nation.
    What you don't seem to realise is that a highly educated populace is for the benefit of the nation.

    See "College graduates are also more likely than others to engage in behaviors that improve their health. Additionally, society reaps significant rewards when a higher percentage of its residents have postsecondary education, the study shows. Higher rates of volunteering, voting and donating blood correspond to higher levels of education as do lower unemployment and poverty rates. Similarly, socially valuable behaviors, such as tolerance for the opinions of others, seem to increase with education. A more educated workforce also would lead to higher wages for all."

    And here, for example.
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    (Original post by Shortarse1)
    So the relying on the government to extract the fees for students via tax when not everyone has benefitted from a university education is ok, but establishing a system whereby students cover their own fees and don't have to fund others later on whilst stopping those who didn't go to uni paying is unfair is it?

    The student argument relies on the "you had uni free so we have to have it too".


    If anything, this system is fairer - students pay their own way instead of others paying for students. I'm sick of this mentality some students have that they're something special the rest of the nation must nurture and support. They're not, they're all 18 or over now and it's time to start acting like adults and paying their own way.

    The system provides for them whilst being cost effective to the government. Students are now complaining that they must pay for what they ultimately benefit the most from. And before anyone comments, yes I am a student, I am prepared to accept that whats best for me might not always be the best for the nation.
    agreed. I am student as well.
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    (Original post by aeonflux)
    Taken an economics lessons lately?

    The most powerful Eurozone economies - Germany for example - are in no worse position than the UK. Regardless of the current situation with the Eurozone, the blaim can hardly be put on education. If you look at government spending on education as a percentage of total spending, it is minute. It is also arguably the best investment public money can go to. The vast majority of public spending (here and in Europe) is on social security.

    Its also worth pointing out that the a tuition fee rise will do nothing to help the deficit in the short-term; which after all, is what the coalition government keep telling us is the top priority. Education cuts are ideologically as opposed to economically driven.
    No, but then reading the drivel you have written neither have you.
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    (Original post by Blondshavemorefun)
    Using this logic that would be the same for any tax payer:confused:
    True
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    (Original post by Shortarse1)
    So the relying on the government to extract the fees for students via tax when not everyone has benefitted from a university education is ok, but establishing a system whereby students cover their own fees and don't have to fund others later on whilst stopping those who didn't go to uni paying is unfair is it?

    The student argument relies on the "you had uni free so we have to have it too".


    If anything, this system is fairer - students pay their own way instead of others paying for students. I'm sick of this mentality some students have that they're something special the rest of the nation must nurture and support. They're not, they're all 18 or over now and it's time to start acting like adults and paying their own way.

    The system provides for them whilst being cost effective to the government. Students are now complaining that they must pay for what they ultimately benefit the most from. And before anyone comments, yes I am a student, I am prepared to accept that whats best for me might not always be the best for the nation.
    You hit the nail on the head. Whining and tantrums, smashing things up to get their own way just reinforces what most people think of students.
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    Don't they have anything better to do? Coursework to prepare? Exams to revise for?

    What will happen, will happen. There seems little point in trying to change the policies coming into place. And it's not like the new policies will affect the students demonstrating much anyway. Most, I assume, are being supported under the current system which isn't going to change next year. A lot will have graduated by the time the changes come into place. And even those affected by the new system have little to worry about. There's nothing to pay upfront, you don't have to pay anything back until you're earning 30k etc etc.
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    (Original post by tigermoth99)
    Don't they have anything better to do? Coursework to prepare? Exams to revise for?

    What will happen, will happen.
    With an attitude like that, why even bother voting?


    There seems little point in trying to change the policies coming into place. And it's not like the new policies will affect the students demonstrating much anyway. Most, I assume, are being supported under the current system which isn't going to change next year. A lot will have graduated by the time the changes come into place. And even those affected by the new system have little to worry about. There's nothing to pay upfront, you don't have to pay anything back until you're earning 30k etc etc.
    Its this kind of buy now, pay later attitude that got us into a recession in the first place. You can't simply burden teenagers with thousands of pounds worth of debt and tell them to worry about it later.
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    Let's go. I'm ready. But remember no violence or fire extinguishers please !
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    Now this is a story all about how
    My life got flipped, turned upside down
    And I'd like to take a minute, just sit right here
    And tell you how I became the protester of a thing called the fees

    In the east end of London born and raised
    On the playground is where I spent most of my days
    Chillin out, maxin, relaxing all cool,
    And shooting some b-ball outside of school
    When a couple of guys who were up to no good
    Started making protests in my neighborhood
    I got in one little march and my mom went "freeze"
    And said "You're going to have to pay higher education fees"

    So I waited for a march and when it came near
    The student front said FIGHT and it had torches in the rear
    If anything I can say this march was beat
    But I thought naw forget it let's stride through the streets

    We pulled up to the tower about 7 or 8
    And we yelled to Cameron "Yo homes we'll smash ya doors in"
    I looked at my kingdom, I was finally here
    To sit on my throne as the protester of the fees
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    (Original post by tigermoth99)
    Don't they have anything better to do? Coursework to prepare? Exams to revise for?

    What will happen, will happen. There seems little point in trying to change the policies coming into place. And it's not like the new policies will affect the students demonstrating much anyway. Most, I assume, are being supported under the current system which isn't going to change next year. A lot will have graduated by the time the changes come into place. And even those affected by the new system have little to worry about. There's nothing to pay upfront, you don't have to pay anything back until you're earning 30k etc etc.
    So people should only protest if it affects them.....a bit selfish eh?

    You do know right, that people often protest about things that won't affect them, for example the Iraq war. Thats because most people have this thing called a conscience.
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    (Original post by W.H.T)
    So people should only protest if it affects them.....a bit selfish eh?

    You do know right, that people often protest about things that won't affect them, for example the Iraq war. Thats because most people have this thing called a conscience.
    In all fairness, protesting against massive bloodshed in the Middle East and protesting against paying for your own services is somewhat different...

    I think they were trying to say that a lot of the protesters are well-off posh kids who could afford the fees anyway, but try to pretend they're 'poor, deprived' students.

    To be honest though, if the government decided to raise the price of Hobnobs by a pound (I'm not even sure this is possible, but whatever), is it really something you can protest against? It's an option to buy the Hobnobs, and it's not that much of a big difference. At the end of the day, you're paying for a luxury. Same as university. Noone has the right to go to university. It's a luxury service.
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    Some people must think that university graduates don't pay tax when they start working. Education is beneficial for the entire country. If a graduate earns an average of 250,000 pounds more, how much of that is going to go in tax and BACK into the economy? I'm damn sure it's going to be more than 40,000, and it's that money that's going to be funding the same idiots pensions who are in favour of the rise in university fees.
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    Most people on here are ****ing tools. Spineless, two bit, worthless tools.

    I wish you were all dead. The stench of your utter patheticness makes me feel sick.
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    (Original post by najinaji)
    In all fairness, protesting against massive bloodshed in the Middle East and protesting against paying for your own services is somewhat different...

    I think they were trying to say that a lot of the protesters are well-off posh kids who could afford the fees anyway, but try to pretend they're 'poor, deprived' students.

    To be honest though, if the government decided to raise the price of Hobnobs by a pound (I'm not even sure this is possible, but whatever), is it really something you can protest against? It's an option to buy the Hobnobs, and it's not that much of a big difference. At the end of the day, you're paying for a luxury. Same as university. Noone has the right to go to university. It's a luxury service.

    That mentality will one day lead to you being placed against a wall and shot.
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    (Original post by 69Crazyfists)
    haha Brilliant!


    I'm very disappointed to see that some students(wouldn't really call them students) totally ruin it for the others(Genuine students) who really care about this issue

    If you want to send a message to the public do it in a civilised manner - because causing violence and damages is, frankly, not the proper way to get people to listen to our plight.
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    ****ing idiots. What makes this situation worse is when the rioters start complaining that the police were treating them roughly. Well if you behaved yourself then it wouldn't happen would it. Seriously I hope the police start using fire extinguishers as batons!
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    (Original post by najinaji)
    I think they were trying to say that a lot of the protesters are well-off posh kids who could afford the fees anyway, but try to pretend they're 'poor, deprived' students.
    Speaking as a "well-of posh kid" (Durham Uni) I get very annoyed when people frame this protest in terms of self interest. I disagree with these proposals because I think people shouldn't have to take on a £48000 debt for taking my degree course. (MChem)

    I graduate this year. This wont affect me. But I'd be happy to pay higher taxes when I'm in work so that fees stay at the same level.

    (Original post by najinaji)
    Noone has the right to go to university. It's a luxury service.
    I fundamentally disagree.

    If you have the brains and the discipline to succeed at a university degree you, in my humble opinion, do have the right to a university education. Your financial back ground should not hold you back.
 
 
 
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